[DECtalk] TEST

Blake Roberts beroberts at hughes.net
Tue Jun 28 17:17:34 EDT 2011


I agree. An explanation shedding light on the fact that all DT code can sing
is what was needed.

Let me clarify something from my previous post. While I have preference for
a SAPI capable of singing, I'm open to the idea of a modern fully functional
speak window which can be compatible with future versions of Windows.
Dectalk singing both now and for the future is the bottom line.
Blake
-----Original Message-----
From: dectalk-bounces at bluegrasspals.com
[mailto:dectalk-bounces at bluegrasspals.com] On Behalf Of Alex H.
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:51 PM
To: DECtalk Discussions
Cc: drbcc1 at centurylink.net; enablerehab2000-llc at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST

an explainations like eds isjust what we needed. finally, we know why things
are the way and light has been shed on this topic, once and for all.

In my long,, overkill and repatitous post, I overlooked the actual coder
here. I was just frustrated and frankly now Im happy we have our explanation
and that the dt sapi will sing for those who can interface it properly, plus
i like the idea of a updated speak window that is writen with modern code.

Sorry for all thspelling issues, my snartphone isnt the best place to type.
lol

best,
Alex

On 6/28/11, Dectalk at aol.com <Dectalk at aol.com> wrote:
> Thank you thank you!  I wanted 6 thank yous but  people might think 
> their readers were stuck.
>
> I'm attaching a song that will be on my upcoming CD  that will be 
> released at the end of July.  It's a Lady Gaga song that I  changed the
words to.
> I'm getting better all the time.  My dream  someday is album of the year.
> That's why I'll do whatever it takes to keep  the singing.  I can't 
> thank you enough.
>
>
> SNOOPI BOTTEN
>
>
> In a message dated 6/28/2011 3:58:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
> edbruckert at gmail.com writes:
>
> May repeat, it will sing. I know how important this thing is, to me  also.
>
> For history out there, my involvement with DECtalk began when Dennis 
> played me a tape recording of what he had done and asked me if I was 
> interested in doing something with it. I have been the chief engineer 
> of  DECtalk ever since that day in 1981 until my retirement due to 
> vision and  cardiac issues, starting with my boss and I running around 
> with a tin cup  trying to get money to start something.
> I just thought of something, there is one incompatibility between old 
> versions and the new, someone could simply write a script to convert 
> the files, because I'm afraid to touch the parser or fear breaking it. 
> In computer terms DECtalk could not reliably process the original 
> phoneme set because we
>
> had both an L and an LL phoneme, so L was changed to L ask and why was 
> changed  to yx for similar reasons.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 3:46 PM, <_Dectalk at aol.com_
> (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) > wrote:
>
>
> Thank you Ed.  Just so you know, Corine was  the one that told me they 
> were using Klattalk default settings.  Then  she wanted to name it 
> "Dectalk Classic".
>
> Here is my own opinion.  If this SAPI sings  and only if it sings, 
> then put it out.  Maybe I'm out of line, but I  have worked with 
> Dectalk since 1989, I was instrumental in Corine even  trying to 
> create a SAPI, and if I am going to be a part of doing the  dictionary, I
want it to sing!
>
> Yes I sing with it, but I'm not the only  one.  And if it doesn't 
> sing, please don't ask me to do the  dictionary.  How can you cut off 
> a part of who I am and then want my  help?  I can't, and it's not 
> right for anyone to expect me  to.
>
> If the SAPI won't sing, please put it to  rest.  Too many people have 
> gotten awards for what they have done with  Dectalk.  I alone have 
> gotten the Da Vinci Award.  This is all  thanks to Dennis Klatt.  If 
> there is ever a museum of Dennis's work, I  dream of having my CDs in 
> that museum because people like me are an end  result of his fine 
> dream.
>
> Kill the singing, you kill the legacy, not only  for today, but for 
> all futures generations.  And, I won't be able to do  more CDs.  Yes, 
> today I have the speak Window, but what about  tomorrow.  If vu take 
> away my music, you are telling me and others like  me to go away.
>
> I'm sorry, but as cold as this sounds, if this  SAPI won't sing, 
> please go away.  I believe in my heart that Dennis  would want this to 
> sing.  I sing with it every day of my life, I give  concerts, I am his 
> dream.  I went past anything  he ever dreamed  of and I have raised 
> the bar.  Take away the singing, and you take away  the bar and  the
dreams for the next generation.
>
> Nothing on Earth  is colder than that.
>
>
> SNOOPI BOTTEN
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/28/2011 2:37:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
> _edbruckert at gmail.com_ (mailto:edbruckert at gmail.com)  writes:
>
> OK guys enough. I am a little tired of the misinformation and  
> confusion and blaming going on. What careens money has done really is 
> get  this SAPI portion working. I'm trying to get some old DLLs 
> working. I do  not get any monetary compensation so I can't have any 
> evil intent as you  purport to other people. You mentioned putting it 
> old klatttalk setttings,  which by the way there aren't any. The 
> synthesizer Digital Equipment  Corporation received from Dennis was 
> incomplete. It had only the pH files  for handling phonemic input and 
> the vocal tract model, it did not even  have letter to sound rules 
> which were functional. As a point of interest  historically 4.3 was 
> one of the favorite versions and it was done by me as  Dennis was 
> dead. Singing - the code for singing is the same as it was when  
> Dennis finished it with one exception. The original version used a 
> physics  music scale which turns out to be slightly different than the 
> musicians  music scale. Other than that the singing code has never 
> changed, except  for enhanced version of singing which was done on a 
> special Hebrew  cantering product. There is a danger clearly expressed 
> in the manual that  if you muck around with parameters especially gain 
> parameters things can  get strange and these are version specific 
> because to achieve maximum  quality a long program was run to 
> calculate each filter gain in the vocal  track for every single voice. 
> The incompatibility results from a  mathematical issue not anything 
> else. Due to platform restrictions we  weren't able to go to a 
> floating point calculation which would've solved  all these problems.
> I am slow because I'm almost blind myself but I said a long time ago  
> that it was my goal to make sure you hit a DECtalk it was reasonable 
> not identical. I say this because I sat there with 4.3 code in front 
> of me comparing it to the code I was working on including pitch tracks 
> and other measurements and just plain looking at the code and although 
> they were  very very close people preferred what they've gotten used 
> to. Many of the  changes that occurred were a result of Microsoft 
> constantly changing  things it was impossible for many different 
> reasons for the original code  to be compiled and there are also 
> reasons why it was very difficult to  determine what the code actually 
> did and what it was supposed to do. There  were many instances where 
> the code obviously didn't do what Dennis's  comments said it was 
> supposed to do other things were even legal C  constructs in that you 
> could not tell how the compiler would handle the  ambiguous statements.
>          I've been laying  back waiting for some of the smoke and dust 
> to settle Now my real question  is should I get to work or should I go
away.
> The
> detailed issues are more  complicated than either of Corine her any of you
> really know. I had   programmers leave because they found the complexity
of
> the whole darn  thing to intimidating.
> As a tiny example, if a data entry error is made in the locus data,  
> that can create a significant problem causing the synthesizer to 
> squeal  forever and yet be incredibly difficult to find.
>       His forests beat goes it's really just  a program to shovel 
> stuff to DECtalk so it can be posted anywhere it was  an example of 
> how to talk to DECtalk. Like everything else the value is  not in 
> speak but is in the knowledge of how to program it for singing. And  
> it's only useful if you happen to have a DECtalk already is the 
> DECtalk  DLL cannot be distributed freely and speak doesn't talk sappy 
> it only  talks to eight DECtalk. It uses the DECtalk application 
> interface, sapi is  simply a mapping of a universally defined set of 
> commands for Windows into  device specific commands. So if people want 
> I can send out some samples of  something I've worked on following 
> normal procedures we only work on one  voice until we were ready to 
> release because of the tuning  issues.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:33 PM, <_Dectalk at aol.com_
> (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) > wrote:
>
>
> Ok, and I just got an email from Corine who  still doesn't get it.  
> She's saying that if anyone wants to sing  using Dectalk, she's 
> sending everyone to me for a free speak  window.
>
> Uh, there's already an updated version of  Windows 7 that the speak 
> window won't run on.  What happens when a  future Windows doesn't 
> include virtual XP?  What if everything  switches to a droid platform?  
> I already can't get speak running on  certain computers.
>
> Who do I call when I can't get the speak  window working for people?  
> This is not fare to  me.
>
>
> SNOOPI BOTTEN
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/28/2011 1:18:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
> _ratguy at insightbb.com_ (mailto:ratguy at insightbb.com)  writes:
>
> Hi,
>
> I actually wasn't responding to that last  message, but that's the one 
> I hit reply to. I was actually  responding to your thought yesterday 
> that you might have been  removed from the list for your earlier 
> comments. That's not going to happen.
> Jayson
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:  <_Dectalk at aol.com_ (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) >
> To: <_dectalk at bluegrasspals.com_ (mailto:dectalk at bluegrasspals.com) >
> Sent: Tuesday, June  28, 2011 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST
>
>
>> You  miss understood me.  I'm not concerned about  being removed  
>> from the list.  Corine in no way wants anyone to see  the  prototype.  
>> So I was saying, the link  to the prototype will only work until  
>> Corine tells Dave to
> take
>> it
>> down.  Or, the site my   crash.
>>
>>
>> SNOOPI BOTTEN
>>
>>
>>  In a message dated 6/28/2011 11:10:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight  Time, 
>> _ratguy at insightbb.com_ (mailto:ratguy at insightbb.com)  writes:
>>
>>  Hi,
>>
>> Let me just repeat something after all this  discussion.  Snoopi, you 
>> are not being removed  from this list. I am the only person on  Earth 
>> with the  authority to remove people from this list or do any other
> administrative
>> job. And as far as I'm concerned, this whole  discussion is  valuable.
>> Nobody
>> will be removed  from this list for anything they said or  may say on 
>> this  topic.
>>
>> I want to state something else too. As I  see  it, there are several 
>> schools of DECtalk  users and fans. There are some  who like the 
>> DECtalk speech
> and
>> probably would use it with their screen  reader if  they could, or 
>> maybe use it along with a text to MP3  program  such as Text Aloud, 
>> but don't have any  other more elaborate use for it.  Then there are 
>> those who think  it's
> cool
>> that DECtalk can sing and do all  this neat  stuff and enjoy 
>> listening to others' creations, but don't have  a  clue how to 
>> actually make DECtalk do any of  those things. Then there are  
>> probably several classes of more
> advanced
>> DECtalk users who, at the high  end, could  probably transcribe 
>> arbitrary text into phonemes in  their  sleep. These are the people 
>> making the elaborate  DECtalk songs and skits.  And finally, there 
>> are the users  with disabilities requiring them to use  DECtalk  to 
>> speak and/or sing. These users almost certainly fit into  all  the 
>> previous classes of users I've discussed. I  fit somewhere in the 
>> third  class of users, the more  advanced DECtalkists. So as
>> you can see, this   SAPI is obviously targeted toward the more basic
user,
>>  who
>> just wants to  use it with their screen reader or  other SAPI-enabled 
>> applications,  nothing  more.
>>
>> Regarding the Speak windows, yes it's true that  new  hardware and 
>> new operating systems might come along  under which the Speak  
>> windows won't run.
>>  However, all is not truly lost even then. As long as,  say, a  
>> virtual machine running XP can run under whatever  native  
>> hardware/OS is being used,
> Speak
>> can then be run  under that. Not the most  ideal solution I do admit, 
>> but  still, it's better than nothing.
>>
>> I  personally  would like to see the SAPI provide all DECtalk's 
>> features,  but it's clear to me that, for whatever reason, that's not  
>> going to  happen.
>> Jayson
>>
>> ----- Original  Message -----
>> From:  <_Dectalk at aol.com_ (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) >
>> To: <_dectalk at bluegrasspals.com_ (mailto:dectalk at bluegrasspals.com) >
>> Sent:   Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: [DECtalk]  TEST
>>
>>
>>>  __http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/__
> (http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/_)
>>>   (_http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/_
> (http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/) )
>>>
>>>  Ok, we  have an unstable prototype that keeps   crashing.  I'm forcing
>> Dave
>>> to keep it up  until Corine tells him to remove  it.  It  talks, but  
>>> I haven't been able to get it to say  anything  this  morning.
>>>
>>> Basically  the plan is to reset it to  Klattalk settings  but call  
>>> it Dectalk
>>> Classic.   And, it won't  sing.
>>>
>>>
>>> SNOOPI   BOTTEN
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated  6/28/2011 8:42:05 A.M.  Eastern Daylight Time, 
>>> _bmisch2002 at gmail.com_ (mailto:bmisch2002 at gmail.com)  writes:
>>>
>>>  so  how  is that version coming along and are the other  languages 
>>> going
>> to
>>> be included  or just us  english?
>>>
>>>
>>> On  Jun 27, 2011, at  6:33 PM, FRIDO ORDEMANN   wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  There are other users of  DECtalk than those who use  it for  singing.
>>>
>>>
>>>   ____________________________________
>>> From:  "_Dectalk at aol.com_  (mailto:_Dectalk at aol.com_
> (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) ) "  <_Dectalk at aol.com_
>>>  (mailto:_Dectalk at aol.com_ (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) ) >
>>> To:  _dectalk at bluegrasspals.com_  
>>> (mailto:_dectalk at bluegrasspals.com_
> (mailto:dectalk at bluegrasspals.com) )
>>> Sent: Mon,  June 27, 2011  2:10:43  PM
>>> Subject: Re:  [DECtalk]  TEST
>>>
>>>  Actually I was  scared I was  removed for exploding on the list 
>>> last
>>  night.
>>> I also find it odd that  Corine never  apologized for her  
>>> misleading post.
>>> I'm  still in total  shock at how her post was  worded.  And  to 
>>> post
> that
>> on
>>> the list when we  all have  a  speak window or other form of Dectalk.
>>  Heck,
>>> if
>>> I did  have  a singing  SAPI, why would anyone buy her non-singing
>>  version?
>>>
>>> That post just totally made no   sense to  me.  I still feel bad about
my
>>>  response, but I was and  still  am  angry.
>>>
>>>
>>> SNOOPI    BOTTEN
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated  6/27/2011 1:22:03 P.M.  Eastern  Daylight Time,  
>>> _linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com_  (mailto:_linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com_
> (mailto:linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com) )  writes:
>>>
>>> Your  message  came through.  It's all good.
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> On  6/27/2011  12:58  PM, _Dectalk at aol.com_ 
>>> (mailto:_Dectalk at aol.com_
> (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) )
>> wrote:
>>> My mail  got too full, so I'm just making sure  everything  is  ok.
>>>
>>>
>>> SNOOPI  BOTTEN
>>>
>>>
>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>  DECtalk  mailing list
>>>
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> (mailto:DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com) )
>>>
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> (http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk_)
>>>   (_http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk_
> (http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk) )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   --
>>> Sent via   Thunderbird.
>>>
>>>
>>>   _______________________________________________
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> (mailto:DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com) )
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>>>   (_http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk_
> (http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk) )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   =
>>>
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>>>  _http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk_
> (http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>  ----
>>
>>
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>>
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