[DECtalk] TEST
Blake Roberts
beroberts at hughes.net
Tue Jun 28 17:17:34 EDT 2011
I agree. An explanation shedding light on the fact that all DT code can sing
is what was needed.
Let me clarify something from my previous post. While I have preference for
a SAPI capable of singing, I'm open to the idea of a modern fully functional
speak window which can be compatible with future versions of Windows.
Dectalk singing both now and for the future is the bottom line.
Blake
-----Original Message-----
From: dectalk-bounces at bluegrasspals.com
[mailto:dectalk-bounces at bluegrasspals.com] On Behalf Of Alex H.
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:51 PM
To: DECtalk Discussions
Cc: drbcc1 at centurylink.net; enablerehab2000-llc at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST
an explainations like eds isjust what we needed. finally, we know why things
are the way and light has been shed on this topic, once and for all.
In my long,, overkill and repatitous post, I overlooked the actual coder
here. I was just frustrated and frankly now Im happy we have our explanation
and that the dt sapi will sing for those who can interface it properly, plus
i like the idea of a updated speak window that is writen with modern code.
Sorry for all thspelling issues, my snartphone isnt the best place to type.
lol
best,
Alex
On 6/28/11, Dectalk at aol.com <Dectalk at aol.com> wrote:
> Thank you thank you! I wanted 6 thank yous but people might think
> their readers were stuck.
>
> I'm attaching a song that will be on my upcoming CD that will be
> released at the end of July. It's a Lady Gaga song that I changed the
words to.
> I'm getting better all the time. My dream someday is album of the year.
> That's why I'll do whatever it takes to keep the singing. I can't
> thank you enough.
>
>
> SNOOPI BOTTEN
>
>
> In a message dated 6/28/2011 3:58:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> edbruckert at gmail.com writes:
>
> May repeat, it will sing. I know how important this thing is, to me also.
>
> For history out there, my involvement with DECtalk began when Dennis
> played me a tape recording of what he had done and asked me if I was
> interested in doing something with it. I have been the chief engineer
> of DECtalk ever since that day in 1981 until my retirement due to
> vision and cardiac issues, starting with my boss and I running around
> with a tin cup trying to get money to start something.
> I just thought of something, there is one incompatibility between old
> versions and the new, someone could simply write a script to convert
> the files, because I'm afraid to touch the parser or fear breaking it.
> In computer terms DECtalk could not reliably process the original
> phoneme set because we
>
> had both an L and an LL phoneme, so L was changed to L ask and why was
> changed to yx for similar reasons.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 3:46 PM, <_Dectalk at aol.com_
> (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) > wrote:
>
>
> Thank you Ed. Just so you know, Corine was the one that told me they
> were using Klattalk default settings. Then she wanted to name it
> "Dectalk Classic".
>
> Here is my own opinion. If this SAPI sings and only if it sings,
> then put it out. Maybe I'm out of line, but I have worked with
> Dectalk since 1989, I was instrumental in Corine even trying to
> create a SAPI, and if I am going to be a part of doing the dictionary, I
want it to sing!
>
> Yes I sing with it, but I'm not the only one. And if it doesn't
> sing, please don't ask me to do the dictionary. How can you cut off
> a part of who I am and then want my help? I can't, and it's not
> right for anyone to expect me to.
>
> If the SAPI won't sing, please put it to rest. Too many people have
> gotten awards for what they have done with Dectalk. I alone have
> gotten the Da Vinci Award. This is all thanks to Dennis Klatt. If
> there is ever a museum of Dennis's work, I dream of having my CDs in
> that museum because people like me are an end result of his fine
> dream.
>
> Kill the singing, you kill the legacy, not only for today, but for
> all futures generations. And, I won't be able to do more CDs. Yes,
> today I have the speak Window, but what about tomorrow. If vu take
> away my music, you are telling me and others like me to go away.
>
> I'm sorry, but as cold as this sounds, if this SAPI won't sing,
> please go away. I believe in my heart that Dennis would want this to
> sing. I sing with it every day of my life, I give concerts, I am his
> dream. I went past anything he ever dreamed of and I have raised
> the bar. Take away the singing, and you take away the bar and the
dreams for the next generation.
>
> Nothing on Earth is colder than that.
>
>
> SNOOPI BOTTEN
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/28/2011 2:37:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> _edbruckert at gmail.com_ (mailto:edbruckert at gmail.com) writes:
>
> OK guys enough. I am a little tired of the misinformation and
> confusion and blaming going on. What careens money has done really is
> get this SAPI portion working. I'm trying to get some old DLLs
> working. I do not get any monetary compensation so I can't have any
> evil intent as you purport to other people. You mentioned putting it
> old klatttalk setttings, which by the way there aren't any. The
> synthesizer Digital Equipment Corporation received from Dennis was
> incomplete. It had only the pH files for handling phonemic input and
> the vocal tract model, it did not even have letter to sound rules
> which were functional. As a point of interest historically 4.3 was
> one of the favorite versions and it was done by me as Dennis was
> dead. Singing - the code for singing is the same as it was when
> Dennis finished it with one exception. The original version used a
> physics music scale which turns out to be slightly different than the
> musicians music scale. Other than that the singing code has never
> changed, except for enhanced version of singing which was done on a
> special Hebrew cantering product. There is a danger clearly expressed
> in the manual that if you muck around with parameters especially gain
> parameters things can get strange and these are version specific
> because to achieve maximum quality a long program was run to
> calculate each filter gain in the vocal track for every single voice.
> The incompatibility results from a mathematical issue not anything
> else. Due to platform restrictions we weren't able to go to a
> floating point calculation which would've solved all these problems.
> I am slow because I'm almost blind myself but I said a long time ago
> that it was my goal to make sure you hit a DECtalk it was reasonable
> not identical. I say this because I sat there with 4.3 code in front
> of me comparing it to the code I was working on including pitch tracks
> and other measurements and just plain looking at the code and although
> they were very very close people preferred what they've gotten used
> to. Many of the changes that occurred were a result of Microsoft
> constantly changing things it was impossible for many different
> reasons for the original code to be compiled and there are also
> reasons why it was very difficult to determine what the code actually
> did and what it was supposed to do. There were many instances where
> the code obviously didn't do what Dennis's comments said it was
> supposed to do other things were even legal C constructs in that you
> could not tell how the compiler would handle the ambiguous statements.
> I've been laying back waiting for some of the smoke and dust
> to settle Now my real question is should I get to work or should I go
away.
> The
> detailed issues are more complicated than either of Corine her any of you
> really know. I had programmers leave because they found the complexity
of
> the whole darn thing to intimidating.
> As a tiny example, if a data entry error is made in the locus data,
> that can create a significant problem causing the synthesizer to
> squeal forever and yet be incredibly difficult to find.
> His forests beat goes it's really just a program to shovel
> stuff to DECtalk so it can be posted anywhere it was an example of
> how to talk to DECtalk. Like everything else the value is not in
> speak but is in the knowledge of how to program it for singing. And
> it's only useful if you happen to have a DECtalk already is the
> DECtalk DLL cannot be distributed freely and speak doesn't talk sappy
> it only talks to eight DECtalk. It uses the DECtalk application
> interface, sapi is simply a mapping of a universally defined set of
> commands for Windows into device specific commands. So if people want
> I can send out some samples of something I've worked on following
> normal procedures we only work on one voice until we were ready to
> release because of the tuning issues.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:33 PM, <_Dectalk at aol.com_
> (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) > wrote:
>
>
> Ok, and I just got an email from Corine who still doesn't get it.
> She's saying that if anyone wants to sing using Dectalk, she's
> sending everyone to me for a free speak window.
>
> Uh, there's already an updated version of Windows 7 that the speak
> window won't run on. What happens when a future Windows doesn't
> include virtual XP? What if everything switches to a droid platform?
> I already can't get speak running on certain computers.
>
> Who do I call when I can't get the speak window working for people?
> This is not fare to me.
>
>
> SNOOPI BOTTEN
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/28/2011 1:18:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> _ratguy at insightbb.com_ (mailto:ratguy at insightbb.com) writes:
>
> Hi,
>
> I actually wasn't responding to that last message, but that's the one
> I hit reply to. I was actually responding to your thought yesterday
> that you might have been removed from the list for your earlier
> comments. That's not going to happen.
> Jayson
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <_Dectalk at aol.com_ (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) >
> To: <_dectalk at bluegrasspals.com_ (mailto:dectalk at bluegrasspals.com) >
> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST
>
>
>> You miss understood me. I'm not concerned about being removed
>> from the list. Corine in no way wants anyone to see the prototype.
>> So I was saying, the link to the prototype will only work until
>> Corine tells Dave to
> take
>> it
>> down. Or, the site my crash.
>>
>>
>> SNOOPI BOTTEN
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 6/28/2011 11:10:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> _ratguy at insightbb.com_ (mailto:ratguy at insightbb.com) writes:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Let me just repeat something after all this discussion. Snoopi, you
>> are not being removed from this list. I am the only person on Earth
>> with the authority to remove people from this list or do any other
> administrative
>> job. And as far as I'm concerned, this whole discussion is valuable.
>> Nobody
>> will be removed from this list for anything they said or may say on
>> this topic.
>>
>> I want to state something else too. As I see it, there are several
>> schools of DECtalk users and fans. There are some who like the
>> DECtalk speech
> and
>> probably would use it with their screen reader if they could, or
>> maybe use it along with a text to MP3 program such as Text Aloud,
>> but don't have any other more elaborate use for it. Then there are
>> those who think it's
> cool
>> that DECtalk can sing and do all this neat stuff and enjoy
>> listening to others' creations, but don't have a clue how to
>> actually make DECtalk do any of those things. Then there are
>> probably several classes of more
> advanced
>> DECtalk users who, at the high end, could probably transcribe
>> arbitrary text into phonemes in their sleep. These are the people
>> making the elaborate DECtalk songs and skits. And finally, there
>> are the users with disabilities requiring them to use DECtalk to
>> speak and/or sing. These users almost certainly fit into all the
>> previous classes of users I've discussed. I fit somewhere in the
>> third class of users, the more advanced DECtalkists. So as
>> you can see, this SAPI is obviously targeted toward the more basic
user,
>> who
>> just wants to use it with their screen reader or other SAPI-enabled
>> applications, nothing more.
>>
>> Regarding the Speak windows, yes it's true that new hardware and
>> new operating systems might come along under which the Speak
>> windows won't run.
>> However, all is not truly lost even then. As long as, say, a
>> virtual machine running XP can run under whatever native
>> hardware/OS is being used,
> Speak
>> can then be run under that. Not the most ideal solution I do admit,
>> but still, it's better than nothing.
>>
>> I personally would like to see the SAPI provide all DECtalk's
>> features, but it's clear to me that, for whatever reason, that's not
>> going to happen.
>> Jayson
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <_Dectalk at aol.com_ (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) >
>> To: <_dectalk at bluegrasspals.com_ (mailto:dectalk at bluegrasspals.com) >
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST
>>
>>
>>> __http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/__
> (http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/_)
>>> (_http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/_
> (http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/) )
>>>
>>> Ok, we have an unstable prototype that keeps crashing. I'm forcing
>> Dave
>>> to keep it up until Corine tells him to remove it. It talks, but
>>> I haven't been able to get it to say anything this morning.
>>>
>>> Basically the plan is to reset it to Klattalk settings but call
>>> it Dectalk
>>> Classic. And, it won't sing.
>>>
>>>
>>> SNOOPI BOTTEN
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 6/28/2011 8:42:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> _bmisch2002 at gmail.com_ (mailto:bmisch2002 at gmail.com) writes:
>>>
>>> so how is that version coming along and are the other languages
>>> going
>> to
>>> be included or just us english?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 6:33 PM, FRIDO ORDEMANN wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are other users of DECtalk than those who use it for singing.
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________
>>> From: "_Dectalk at aol.com_ (mailto:_Dectalk at aol.com_
> (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) ) " <_Dectalk at aol.com_
>>> (mailto:_Dectalk at aol.com_ (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) ) >
>>> To: _dectalk at bluegrasspals.com_
>>> (mailto:_dectalk at bluegrasspals.com_
> (mailto:dectalk at bluegrasspals.com) )
>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 2:10:43 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST
>>>
>>> Actually I was scared I was removed for exploding on the list
>>> last
>> night.
>>> I also find it odd that Corine never apologized for her
>>> misleading post.
>>> I'm still in total shock at how her post was worded. And to
>>> post
> that
>> on
>>> the list when we all have a speak window or other form of Dectalk.
>> Heck,
>>> if
>>> I did have a singing SAPI, why would anyone buy her non-singing
>> version?
>>>
>>> That post just totally made no sense to me. I still feel bad about
my
>>> response, but I was and still am angry.
>>>
>>>
>>> SNOOPI BOTTEN
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 6/27/2011 1:22:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> _linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com_ (mailto:_linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com_
> (mailto:linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com) ) writes:
>>>
>>> Your message came through. It's all good.
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> On 6/27/2011 12:58 PM, _Dectalk at aol.com_
>>> (mailto:_Dectalk at aol.com_
> (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) )
>> wrote:
>>> My mail got too full, so I'm just making sure everything is ok.
>>>
>>>
>>> SNOOPI BOTTEN
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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> (mailto:DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com) )
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> (http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk) )
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent via Thunderbird.
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>> =
>>>
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>>
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