[DECtalk] TEST
ebruckert Bruckert
edbruckert at gmail.com
Tue Jun 28 15:50:37 EDT 2011
For clarity, no singing code has ever been or will be removed from DECtalk,
because I'm the only one that knows how to do it and I wouldn't. So any
version released will work with both sat and by definition dapi
sso speak will work, say will work etc.
my hypothesis is that if you install sapi from Corine then overtime,
we can supply different versions of DECtalk and you can take your pick.
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Jayson Smith <ratguy at insightbb.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Ed, I started this message nearly an hour ago but then got called away.
> Therefore, I haven't read anything others might have said since.
>
> Please stay, we need you. I hate to put it like that, but it seems that in
> all this, you have the historical perspective, and also the experience of
> creating DECtalk versions after Dennis passed away.
>
> Here's an idea I just came up with. This would hopefully satisfy all sides
> involved. Release the SAPI, without the singing and other advanced
> capabilities if that is for some reason needed. But also offer to more
> advanced users a Speak window which uses the newly developed software, but
> with all features enabled. Obviously I have no idea if Enable is removing
> code from the actual DECtalk DLL or rendering it inoperative in order to
> disable the advanced functions, or keeping the DECtalk DLL intact and
> fixing
> the SAPI so there's no way the end user can access those functions. If the
> DECtalk DLL is a full, uncrippled DECtalk, my thought would be to create a
> new Speak window, using modern programming techniques in order to insure
> accessibility as well as compatibility for years to come. The thing is, the
> new Speak window wouldn't be any good on its own. It would need the DECtalk
> DLL. So where do you get that? Of course! By buying the SAPI.
> Just my thoughts.
> Jayson
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ebruckert Bruckert" <edbruckert at gmail.com>
> To: "DECtalk Discussions" <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST
>
>
> OK guys enough. I am a little tired of the misinformation and confusion and
> blaming going on. What careens money has done really is get this SAPI
> portion working. I'm trying to get some old DLLs working. I do not get any
> monetary compensation so I can't have any evil intent as you purport to
> other people. You mentioned putting it old klatttalk setttings, which by
> the
> way there aren't any. The synthesizer Digital Equipment Corporation
> received
> from Dennis was incomplete. It had only the pH files for handling phonemic
> input and the vocal tract model, it did not even have letter to sound rules
> which were functional. As a point of interest historically 4.3 was one of
> the favorite versions and it was done by me as Dennis was dead. Singing –
> the code for singing is the same as it was when Dennis finished it with one
> exception. The original version used a physics music scale which turns out
> to be slightly different than the musicians music scale. Other than that
> the
> singing code has never changed, except for enhanced version of singing
> which
> was done on a special Hebrew cantering product. There is a danger clearly
> expressed in the manual that if you muck around with parameters especially
> gain parameters things can get strange and these are version specific
> because to achieve maximum quality a long program was run to calculate each
> filter gain in the vocal track for every single voice. The incompatibility
> results from a mathematical issue not anything else. Due to platform
> restrictions we weren't able to go to a floating point calculation which
> would've solved all these problems.
> I am slow because I'm almost blind myself but I said a long time ago that
> it
> was my goal to make sure you hit a DECtalk it was reasonable not identical.
> I say this because I sat there with 4.3 code in front of me comparing it to
> the code I was working on including pitch tracks and other measurements and
> just plain looking at the code and although they were very very close
> people
> preferred what they've gotten used to. Many of the changes that occurred
> were a result of Microsoft constantly changing things it was impossible for
> many different reasons for the original code to be compiled and there are
> also reasons why it was very difficult to determine what the code actually
> did and what it was supposed to do. There were many instances where the
> code
> obviously didn't do what Dennis's comments said it was supposed to do other
> things were even legal C constructs in that you could not tell how the
> compiler would handle the ambiguous statements.
> I've been laying back waiting for some of the smoke and dust to
> settle Now my real question is should I get to work or should I go away.
> The
> detailed issues are more complicated than either of Corine her any of you
> really know. I had programmers leave because they found the complexity of
> the whole darn thing to intimidating.
> As a tiny example, if a data entry error is made in the locus data, that
> can
> create a significant problem causing the synthesizer to squeal forever and
> yet be incredibly difficult to find.
> His forests beat goes it's really just a program to shovel stuff to
> DECtalk so it can be posted anywhere it was an example of how to talk to
> DECtalk. Like everything else the value is not in speak but is in the
> knowledge of how to program it for singing. And it's only useful if you
> happen to have a DECtalk already is the DECtalk DLL cannot be distributed
> freely and speak doesn't talk sappy it only talks to eight DECtalk. It uses
> the DECtalk application interface, sapi is simply a mapping of a
> universally
> defined set of commands for Windows into device specific commands. So if
> people want I can send out some samples of something I've worked on
> following normal procedures we only work on one voice until we were ready
> to
> release because of the tuning issues.
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:33 PM, <Dectalk at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > **
> > *Ok, and I just got an email from Corine who still doesn't get it. She's
> > saying that if anyone wants to sing using Dectalk, she's sending everyone
> > to
> > me for a free speak window.*
> > **
> > *Uh, there's already an updated version of Windows 7 that the speak
> window
> > won't run on. What happens when a future Windows doesn't include virtual
> > XP? What if everything switches to a droid platform? I already can't
> get
> > speak running on certain computers.*
> > **
> > *Who do I call when I can't get the speak window working for people?
> This
> > is not fare to me.*
> > **
> > **
> > *SNOOPI BOTTEN *
> > **
> > In a message dated 6/28/2011 1:18:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > ratguy at insightbb.com writes:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I actually wasn't responding to that last message, but that's the one I
> > hit
> >
> > reply to. I was actually responding to your thought yesterday that you
> > might
> > have been removed from the list for your earlier comments. That's not
> > going
> >
> > to happen.
> > Jayson
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Dectalk at aol.com>
> > To: <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 12:58 PM
> > Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST
> >
> >
> > > You miss understood me. I'm not concerned about being removed from
> the
> > > list. Corine in no way wants anyone to see the prototype. So I was
> > > saying,
> > > the link to the prototype will only work until Corine tells Dave to
> > > take
> >
> > > it
> > > down. Or, the site my crash.
> > >
> > >
> > > SNOOPI BOTTEN
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 6/28/2011 11:10:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > ratguy at insightbb.com writes:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Let me just repeat something after all this discussion. Snoopi, you
> are
> > > not
> > > being removed from this list. I am the only person on Earth with the
> > > authority to remove people from this list or do any other
> > > administrative
> > > job. And as far as I'm concerned, this whole discussion is valuable.
> > > Nobody
> > > will be removed from this list for anything they said or may say on
> > > this
> > > topic.
> > >
> > > I want to state something else too. As I see it, there are several
> > > schools
> > > of DECtalk users and fans. There are some who like the DECtalk speech
> > and
> > > probably would use it with their screen reader if they could, or maybe
> > > use
> > > it along with a text to MP3 program such as Text Aloud, but don't have
> > > any
> > > other more elaborate use for it. Then there are those who think it's
> > cool
> > > that DECtalk can sing and do all this neat stuff and enjoy listening
> to
> > > others' creations, but don't have a clue how to actually make DECtalk
> > > do
> > > any
> > > of those things. Then there are probably several classes of more
> > advanced
> > > DECtalk users who, at the high end, could probably transcribe
> arbitrary
> > > text
> > > into phonemes in their sleep. These are the people making the
> elaborate
> > > DECtalk songs and skits. And finally, there are the users with
> > > disabilities
> > > requiring them to use DECtalk to speak and/or sing. These users almost
> > > certainly fit into all the previous classes of users I've discussed. I
> > > fit
> > > somewhere in the third class of users, the more advanced DECtalkists.
> > > So
> > > as
> > > you can see, this SAPI is obviously targeted toward the more basic
> > > user,
> > > who
> > > just wants to use it with their screen reader or other SAPI-enabled
> > > applications, nothing more.
> > >
> > > Regarding the Speak windows, yes it's true that new hardware and new
> > > operating systems might come along under which the Speak windows won't
> > > run.
> > > However, all is not truly lost even then. As long as, say, a virtual
> > > machine
> > > running XP can run under whatever native hardware/OS is being used,
> > Speak
> > > can then be run under that. Not the most ideal solution I do admit,
> but
> > > still, it's better than nothing.
> > >
> > > I personally would like to see the SAPI provide all DECtalk's
> features,
> > > but
> > > it's clear to me that, for whatever reason, that's not going to
> happen.
> > > Jayson
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <Dectalk at aol.com>
> > > To: <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:21 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST
> > >
> > >
> > >> _http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/_
> > >> (http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/)
> > >>
> > >> Ok, we have an unstable prototype that keeps crashing. I'm forcing
> > > Dave
> > >> to keep it up until Corine tells him to remove it. It talks, but I
> > >> haven't
> > >> been able to get it to say anything this morning.
> > >>
> > >> Basically the plan is to reset it to Klattalk settings but call it
> > >> Dectalk
> > >> Classic. And, it won't sing.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> SNOOPI BOTTEN
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> In a message dated 6/28/2011 8:42:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > >> bmisch2002 at gmail.com writes:
> > >>
> > >> so how is that version coming along and are the other languages
> going
> > > to
> > >> be included or just us english?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Jun 27, 2011, at 6:33 PM, FRIDO ORDEMANN wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> There are other users of DECtalk than those who use it for singing.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ____________________________________
> > >> From: "_Dectalk at aol.com_ (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) "
> <_Dectalk at aol.com_
> > >> (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) >
> > >> To: _dectalk at bluegrasspals.com_ (mailto:dectalk at bluegrasspals.com)
> > >> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 2:10:43 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST
> > >>
> > >> Actually I was scared I was removed for exploding on the list last
> > > night.
> > >> I also find it odd that Corine never apologized for her misleading
> > >> post.
> > >> I'm still in total shock at how her post was worded. And to post
> > >> that
> > > on
> > >> the list when we all have a speak window or other form of Dectalk.
> > > Heck,
> > >> if
> > >> I did have a singing SAPI, why would anyone buy her non-singing
> > > version?
> > >>
> > >> That post just totally made no sense to me. I still feel bad about
> > >> my
> > >> response, but I was and still am angry.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> SNOOPI BOTTEN
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> In a message dated 6/27/2011 1:22:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > >> _linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com_ (mailto:linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com)
> writes:
> > >>
> > >> Your message came through. It's all good.
> > >>
> > >> Alex
> > >>
> > >> On 6/27/2011 12:58 PM, _Dectalk at aol.com_ (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com)
> > > wrote:
> > >> My mail got too full, so I'm just making sure everything is ok.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> SNOOPI BOTTEN
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >>
> > >> DECtalk mailing list
> > >>
> > >> _DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com_ (mailto:DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com)
> > >>
> > >> _http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk_
> > >> (http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Sent via Thunderbird.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> DECtalk mailing list
> > >> _DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com_ (mailto:DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com)
> > >> _http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk_
> > >> (http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> DECtalk mailing list
> > >> _DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com_ (mailto:DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com)
> > >> _http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk_
> > >> (http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> =
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> DECtalk mailing list
> > >> DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com
> > >> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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