<div>For clarity, no singing code has ever been or will be removed from DECtalk, because I'm the only one that knows how to do it and I wouldn't. So any version released will work with both sat and by definition dapi</div>
<div>sso speak will work, say will work etc. </div>
<div> my hypothesis is that if you install sapi from Corine then overtime, we can supply different versions of DECtalk and you can take your pick. <br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Jayson Smith <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ratguy@insightbb.com">ratguy@insightbb.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">Hi,<br><br>Ed, I started this message nearly an hour ago but then got called away.<br>Therefore, I haven't read anything others might have said since.<br>
<br>Please stay, we need you. I hate to put it like that, but it seems that in<br>all this, you have the historical perspective, and also the experience of<br>creating DECtalk versions after Dennis passed away.<br><br>Here's an idea I just came up with. This would hopefully satisfy all sides<br>
involved. Release the SAPI, without the singing and other advanced<br>capabilities if that is for some reason needed. But also offer to more<br>advanced users a Speak window which uses the newly developed software, but<br>
with all features enabled. Obviously I have no idea if Enable is removing<br>code from the actual DECtalk DLL or rendering it inoperative in order to<br>disable the advanced functions, or keeping the DECtalk DLL intact and fixing<br>
the SAPI so there's no way the end user can access those functions. If the<br>DECtalk DLL is a full, uncrippled DECtalk, my thought would be to create a<br>new Speak window, using modern programming techniques in order to insure<br>
accessibility as well as compatibility for years to come. The thing is, the<br>new Speak window wouldn't be any good on its own. It would need the DECtalk<br>DLL. So where do you get that? Of course! By buying the SAPI.<br>
Just my thoughts.<br><font color="#888888">Jayson<br></font>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class="h5"><br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: "ebruckert Bruckert" <<a href="mailto:edbruckert@gmail.com">edbruckert@gmail.com</a>><br>To: "DECtalk Discussions" <<a href="mailto:dectalk@bluegrasspals.com">dectalk@bluegrasspals.com</a>><br>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:37 PM<br>Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST<br><br><br>OK guys enough. I am a little tired of the misinformation and confusion and<br>blaming going on. What careens money has done really is get this SAPI<br>
portion working. I'm trying to get some old DLLs working. I do not get any<br>monetary compensation so I can't have any evil intent as you purport to<br>other people. You mentioned putting it old klatttalk setttings, which by the<br>
way there aren't any. The synthesizer Digital Equipment Corporation received<br>from Dennis was incomplete. It had only the pH files for handling phonemic<br>input and the vocal tract model, it did not even have letter to sound rules<br>
which were functional. As a point of interest historically 4.3 was one of<br>the favorite versions and it was done by me as Dennis was dead. Singing –<br>the code for singing is the same as it was when Dennis finished it with one<br>
exception. The original version used a physics music scale which turns out<br>to be slightly different than the musicians music scale. Other than that the<br>singing code has never changed, except for enhanced version of singing which<br>
was done on a special Hebrew cantering product. There is a danger clearly<br>expressed in the manual that if you muck around with parameters especially<br>gain parameters things can get strange and these are version specific<br>
because to achieve maximum quality a long program was run to calculate each<br>filter gain in the vocal track for every single voice. The incompatibility<br>results from a mathematical issue not anything else. Due to platform<br>
restrictions we weren't able to go to a floating point calculation which<br>would've solved all these problems.<br>I am slow because I'm almost blind myself but I said a long time ago that it<br>was my goal to make sure you hit a DECtalk it was reasonable not identical.<br>
I say this because I sat there with 4.3 code in front of me comparing it to<br>the code I was working on including pitch tracks and other measurements and<br>just plain looking at the code and although they were very very close people<br>
preferred what they've gotten used to. Many of the changes that occurred<br>were a result of Microsoft constantly changing things it was impossible for<br>many different reasons for the original code to be compiled and there are<br>
also reasons why it was very difficult to determine what the code actually<br>did and what it was supposed to do. There were many instances where the code<br>obviously didn't do what Dennis's comments said it was supposed to do other<br>
things were even legal C constructs in that you could not tell how the<br>compiler would handle the ambiguous statements.<br> I've been laying back waiting for some of the smoke and dust to<br>settle Now my real question is should I get to work or should I go away. The<br>
detailed issues are more complicated than either of Corine her any of you<br>really know. I had programmers leave because they found the complexity of<br>the whole darn thing to intimidating.<br>As a tiny example, if a data entry error is made in the locus data, that can<br>
create a significant problem causing the synthesizer to squeal forever and<br>yet be incredibly difficult to find.<br> His forests beat goes it's really just a program to shovel stuff to<br>DECtalk so it can be posted anywhere it was an example of how to talk to<br>
DECtalk. Like everything else the value is not in speak but is in the<br>knowledge of how to program it for singing. And it's only useful if you<br>happen to have a DECtalk already is the DECtalk DLL cannot be distributed<br>
freely and speak doesn't talk sappy it only talks to eight DECtalk. It uses<br>the DECtalk application interface, sapi is simply a mapping of a universally<br>defined set of commands for Windows into device specific commands. So if<br>
people want I can send out some samples of something I've worked on<br>following normal procedures we only work on one voice until we were ready to<br>release because of the tuning issues.<br><br>On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:33 PM, <<a href="mailto:Dectalk@aol.com">Dectalk@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>> **<br>> *Ok, and I just got an email from Corine who still doesn't get it. She's<br>> saying that if anyone wants to sing using Dectalk, she's sending everyone<br>> to<br>> me for a free speak window.*<br>
> **<br>> *Uh, there's already an updated version of Windows 7 that the speak window<br>> won't run on. What happens when a future Windows doesn't include virtual<br>> XP? What if everything switches to a droid platform? I already can't get<br>
> speak running on certain computers.*<br>> **<br>> *Who do I call when I can't get the speak window working for people? This<br>> is not fare to me.*<br>> **<br>> **<br>> *SNOOPI BOTTEN *<br>> **<br>
> In a message dated 6/28/2011 1:18:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,<br>> <a href="mailto:ratguy@insightbb.com">ratguy@insightbb.com</a> writes:<br>><br>> Hi,<br>><br>> I actually wasn't responding to that last message, but that's the one I<br>
> hit<br>><br>> reply to. I was actually responding to your thought yesterday that you<br>> might<br>> have been removed from the list for your earlier comments. That's not<br>> going<br>><br>> to happen.<br>
> Jayson<br>><br>> ----- Original Message -----<br>> From: <<a href="mailto:Dectalk@aol.com">Dectalk@aol.com</a>><br>> To: <<a href="mailto:dectalk@bluegrasspals.com">dectalk@bluegrasspals.com</a>><br>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 12:58 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST<br>><br>><br>> > You miss understood me. I'm not concerned about being removed from the<br>> > list. Corine in no way wants anyone to see the prototype. So I was<br>
> > saying,<br>> > the link to the prototype will only work until Corine tells Dave to<br>> > take<br>><br>> > it<br>> > down. Or, the site my crash.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > SNOOPI BOTTEN<br>
> ><br>> ><br>> > In a message dated 6/28/2011 11:10:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,<br>> > <a href="mailto:ratguy@insightbb.com">ratguy@insightbb.com</a> writes:<br>> ><br>> > Hi,<br>> ><br>
> > Let me just repeat something after all this discussion. Snoopi, you are<br>> > not<br>> > being removed from this list. I am the only person on Earth with the<br>> > authority to remove people from this list or do any other<br>
> > administrative<br>> > job. And as far as I'm concerned, this whole discussion is valuable.<br>> > Nobody<br>> > will be removed from this list for anything they said or may say on<br>> > this<br>
> > topic.<br>> ><br>> > I want to state something else too. As I see it, there are several<br>> > schools<br>> > of DECtalk users and fans. There are some who like the DECtalk speech<br>> and<br>
> > probably would use it with their screen reader if they could, or maybe<br>> > use<br>> > it along with a text to MP3 program such as Text Aloud, but don't have<br>> > any<br>> > other more elaborate use for it. Then there are those who think it's<br>
> cool<br>> > that DECtalk can sing and do all this neat stuff and enjoy listening to<br>> > others' creations, but don't have a clue how to actually make DECtalk<br>> > do<br>> > any<br>
> > of those things. Then there are probably several classes of more<br>> advanced<br>> > DECtalk users who, at the high end, could probably transcribe arbitrary<br>> > text<br>> > into phonemes in their sleep. These are the people making the elaborate<br>
> > DECtalk songs and skits. And finally, there are the users with<br>> > disabilities<br>> > requiring them to use DECtalk to speak and/or sing. These users almost<br>> > certainly fit into all the previous classes of users I've discussed. I<br>
> > fit<br>> > somewhere in the third class of users, the more advanced DECtalkists.<br>> > So<br>> > as<br>> > you can see, this SAPI is obviously targeted toward the more basic<br>> > user,<br>
> > who<br>> > just wants to use it with their screen reader or other SAPI-enabled<br>> > applications, nothing more.<br>> ><br>> > Regarding the Speak windows, yes it's true that new hardware and new<br>
> > operating systems might come along under which the Speak windows won't<br>> > run.<br>> > However, all is not truly lost even then. As long as, say, a virtual<br>> > machine<br>> > running XP can run under whatever native hardware/OS is being used,<br>
> Speak<br>> > can then be run under that. Not the most ideal solution I do admit, but<br>> > still, it's better than nothing.<br>> ><br>> > I personally would like to see the SAPI provide all DECtalk's features,<br>
> > but<br>> > it's clear to me that, for whatever reason, that's not going to happen.<br>> > Jayson<br>> ><br>> > ----- Original Message -----<br>> > From: <<a href="mailto:Dectalk@aol.com">Dectalk@aol.com</a>><br>
> > To: <<a href="mailto:dectalk@bluegrasspals.com">dectalk@bluegrasspals.com</a>><br>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:21 AM<br>> > Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST<br>> ><br>> ><br>> >> _<a href="http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/_" target="_blank">http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/_</a><br>
> >> (<a href="http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/" target="_blank">http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/</a>)<br>> >><br>> >> Ok, we have an unstable prototype that keeps crashing. I'm forcing<br>
> > Dave<br>> >> to keep it up until Corine tells him to remove it. It talks, but I<br>> >> haven't<br>> >> been able to get it to say anything this morning.<br>> >><br>> >> Basically the plan is to reset it to Klattalk settings but call it<br>
> >> Dectalk<br>> >> Classic. And, it won't sing.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> SNOOPI BOTTEN<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> In a message dated 6/28/2011 8:42:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:bmisch2002@gmail.com">bmisch2002@gmail.com</a> writes:<br>> >><br>> >> so how is that version coming along and are the other languages going<br>> > to<br>> >> be included or just us english?<br>
> >><br>> >><br>> >> On Jun 27, 2011, at 6:33 PM, FRIDO ORDEMANN wrote:<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> There are other users of DECtalk than those who use it for singing.<br>
> >><br>> >><br>> >> ____________________________________<br>> >> From: "_Dectalk@aol.com_ (mailto:<a href="mailto:Dectalk@aol.com">Dectalk@aol.com</a>) " <_Dectalk@aol.com_<br>
> >> (mailto:<a href="mailto:Dectalk@aol.com">Dectalk@aol.com</a>) ><br>> >> To: _dectalk@bluegrasspals.com_ (mailto:<a href="mailto:dectalk@bluegrasspals.com">dectalk@bluegrasspals.com</a>)<br>> >> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 2:10:43 PM<br>
> >> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST<br>> >><br>> >> Actually I was scared I was removed for exploding on the list last<br>> > night.<br>> >> I also find it odd that Corine never apologized for her misleading<br>
> >> post.<br>> >> I'm still in total shock at how her post was worded. And to post<br>> >> that<br>> > on<br>> >> the list when we all have a speak window or other form of Dectalk.<br>
> > Heck,<br>> >> if<br>> >> I did have a singing SAPI, why would anyone buy her non-singing<br>> > version?<br>> >><br>> >> That post just totally made no sense to me. I still feel bad about<br>
> >> my<br>> >> response, but I was and still am angry.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> SNOOPI BOTTEN<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> In a message dated 6/27/2011 1:22:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,<br>
> >> _linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com_ (mailto:<a href="mailto:linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com">linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com</a>) writes:<br>> >><br>> >> Your message came through. It's all good.<br>> >><br>
> >> Alex<br>> >><br>> >> On 6/27/2011 12:58 PM, _Dectalk@aol.com_ (mailto:<a href="mailto:Dectalk@aol.com">Dectalk@aol.com</a>)<br>> > wrote:<br>> >> My mail got too full, so I'm just making sure everything is ok.<br>
> >><br>> >><br>> >> SNOOPI BOTTEN<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >><br>> >> DECtalk mailing list<br>
> >><br>> >> _DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com_ (mailto:<a href="mailto:DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com">DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com</a>)<br>> >><br>> >> _<a href="http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk_" target="_blank">http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk_</a><br>
> >> (<a href="http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk" target="_blank">http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk</a>)<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> --<br>
> >> Sent via Thunderbird.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> DECtalk mailing list<br>> >> _DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com_ (mailto:<a href="mailto:DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com">DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com</a>)<br>
> >> _<a href="http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk_" target="_blank">http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk_</a><br>> >> (<a href="http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk" target="_blank">http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk</a>)<br>
> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> DECtalk mailing list<br>> >> _DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com_ (mailto:<a href="mailto:DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com">DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com</a>)<br>
> >> _<a href="http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk_" target="_blank">http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk_</a><br>> >> (<a href="http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk" target="_blank">http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk</a>)<br>
> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> =<br>> >><br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> DECtalk mailing list<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com">DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com</a><br>> >> <a href="http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk" target="_blank">http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk</a><br>
> >><br>> >><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> > ----<br>> ><br>> ><br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> DECtalk mailing list<br>> >> <a href="mailto:DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com">DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com</a><br>> >> <a href="http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk" target="_blank">http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk</a><br>
> >><br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > DECtalk mailing list<br>> > <a href="mailto:DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com">DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com</a><br>> > <a href="http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk" target="_blank">http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk</a><br>
> ><br>> ><br>><br>><br>><br>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>><br>><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > DECtalk mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com">DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com</a><br>> > <a href="http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk" target="_blank">http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk</a><br>
> ><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> DECtalk mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com">DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com</a><br>> <a href="http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk" target="_blank">http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk</a><br>
><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> DECtalk mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com">DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com</a><br>> <a href="http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk" target="_blank">http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk</a><br>
><br>><br><br><br><br></div></div>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class="h5"><br><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> DECtalk mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com">DECtalk@bluegrasspals.com</a><br>> <a href="http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk" target="_blank">http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk</a><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>