[DECtalk] Dectalk Digest, Vol 106, Issue 1

Mon Jan 13 15:13:33 EST 2025

Hi

I would be willing to donate something toward the costs of moving if that’s the way to go - what do others think about this approach?

Regards,

Ian

> On 13 Jan 2025, at 17:00, dectalk-request at bluegrasspals.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. The future of this Email discussion list (Jayson Smith)
>   2. Re: The future of this Email discussion list (Karen Lewellen)
>   3. Re: The future of this Email discussion list
>      (Aksel Christoffersen)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 22:36:49 -0600
> From: Jayson Smith <jaybird at bluegrasspals.com>
> To: DECtalk Discussions <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
> Subject: [DECtalk] The future of this Email discussion list
> Message-ID: <5067bb3a-aee0-de4e-983b-87b5382cf4d4 at bluegrasspals.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> Hello,
> 
> For the past several months, I've been putting off writing this Email, 
> but tonight I decided it was finally time.
> 
> I run two relatively low-traffic Email discussion lists on this server, 
> Blind Apple, for discussion of Apple II computers as used by the blind, 
> and DECtalk, for discussion of the DECtalk speech synthesis system, in 
> all its various hardware and software forms. If you're receiving this 
> message, you're on one or both of these lists.
> 
> I've been running these lists for around twenty years now. When I first 
> started running mailing lists on my server, it seems the Internet was 
> more forgiving in some ways. Running your own Email server was a cool 
> thing to do. I was on top of the world, running mailing list management 
> software (Mailman) on my own server, so I had complete control over how 
> everything was handled, etc. Now, not so much. Running your own Email 
> server is definitely not the cool thing to do any more, and Mailman 
> version 2, which I'm still using, has been end of life for a few years 
> now, as far as its development and maintenance status is concerned. And 
> yet, as little traffic as these lists get, it hardly seems worth 
> upgrading to Mailman version 3, especially considering that I'd also 
> need to find and pay for a reliable outgoing Email server which is okay 
> with handling mailing list traffic.
> 
> Okay, I know what you're saying. "Just move to Groups.io!" That's 
> actually an excellent suggestion, and I have several other lists hosted 
> there. The problem is that they want a year's subscription to their 
> Premium plan up front in order for me to import all the existing group 
> members and message archives. That's $220, so since there are two lists, 
> that's $440. I'm not sure I want to put that much money into these lists 
> out-of-pocket. Another option would be to create the groups at 
> Groups.io, invite all existing members (that's all you can do for free, 
> as direct adding requires a subscription), and whoever joins, joins, and 
> people can talk. But then, the archives from before the move to 
> Groups.io stay at bluegrasspals.com, and it kind of seems clunky to have 
> two sets of list archives.
> 
> Something will need to definitely happen within a year or two. At some 
> point I'll have to upgrade my server to a Linux distribution that 
> doesn't have Python 2, and without going through all sorts of hoops to 
> install this outdated software, Mailman 2 won't run. So I need to decide 
> what to do before that happens.
> 
> I'm sorry this Email seems a bit disorganized. If anyone has any 
> thoughts, or can think of any other options for keeping these lists 
> moving forward, feel free to let me know. I just want to know your 
> thoughts as to whether you think I should move the lists to Groups.io 
> without archives, shut them down, or something else.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jayson
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 00:31:14 -0500 (EST)
> From: Karen Lewellen <klewellen at shellworld.net>
> To: DECtalk <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] The future of this Email discussion list
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.2501130029510.1407565 at users.shellworld.net>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> 
> Hi Jayson,
> would freelist.org provide another option for you?
> No cost, but working comparatively to what is done now I believe?
> Karen
> 
> 
> On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, Jayson Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> For the past several months, I've been putting off writing this Email, but 
>> tonight I decided it was finally time.
>> 
>> I run two relatively low-traffic Email discussion lists on this server, Blind 
>> Apple, for discussion of Apple II computers as used by the blind, and 
>> DECtalk, for discussion of the DECtalk speech synthesis system, in all its 
>> various hardware and software forms. If you're receiving this message, you're 
>> on one or both of these lists.
>> 
>> I've been running these lists for around twenty years now. When I first 
>> started running mailing lists on my server, it seems the Internet was more 
>> forgiving in some ways. Running your own Email server was a cool thing to do. 
>> I was on top of the world, running mailing list management software (Mailman) 
>> on my own server, so I had complete control over how everything was handled, 
>> etc. Now, not so much. Running your own Email server is definitely not the 
>> cool thing to do any more, and Mailman version 2, which I'm still using, has 
>> been end of life for a few years now, as far as its development and 
>> maintenance status is concerned. And yet, as little traffic as these lists 
>> get, it hardly seems worth upgrading to Mailman version 3, especially 
>> considering that I'd also need to find and pay for a reliable outgoing Email 
>> server which is okay with handling mailing list traffic.
>> 
>> Okay, I know what you're saying. "Just move to Groups.io!" That's actually an 
>> excellent suggestion, and I have several other lists hosted there. The 
>> problem is that they want a year's subscription to their Premium plan up 
>> front in order for me to import all the existing group members and message 
>> archives. That's $220, so since there are two lists, that's $440. I'm not 
>> sure I want to put that much money into these lists out-of-pocket. Another 
>> option would be to create the groups at Groups.io, invite all existing 
>> members (that's all you can do for free, as direct adding requires a 
>> subscription), and whoever joins, joins, and people can talk. But then, the 
>> archives from before the move to Groups.io stay at bluegrasspals.com, and it 
>> kind of seems clunky to have two sets of list archives.
>> 
>> Something will need to definitely happen within a year or two. At some point 
>> I'll have to upgrade my server to a Linux distribution that doesn't have 
>> Python 2, and without going through all sorts of hoops to install this 
>> outdated software, Mailman 2 won't run. So I need to decide what to do before 
>> that happens.
>> 
>> I'm sorry this Email seems a bit disorganized. If anyone has any thoughts, or 
>> can think of any other options for keeping these lists moving forward, feel 
>> free to let me know. I just want to know your thoughts as to whether you 
>> think I should move the lists to Groups.io without archives, shut them down, 
>> or something else.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Jayson
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Dectalk mailing list
>> Dectalk at bluegrasspals.com
>> https://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 12:53:39 +0100
> From: "Aksel Christoffersen" <aksel at blindsigtmail.dk>
> To: "'DECtalk'" <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] The future of this Email discussion list
> Message-ID: <005a01db65b1$c9914840$5cb3d8c0$@blindsigtmail.dk>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hi Jayson,
> 
> Here is my thoughts.
> 
> Though this list doesn't have that much trafic anymore, I think that most of
> what's posted here is very interesting and valuable, such as the talk there
> have been about the DECtalk develobment at GitHub, and all the discussion
> about the ownership of DECtalk. If it wasn't for this list, I wouldn't have
> known about any of this, along with a lot else, and I would personally be
> very sad to see it go.
> 
> I unfortunately don't have an alternative suggestion as to how you can run
> the list in the future, though I perfectly understand and respect why you
> wouldn't want to pay that much money for two lists with this low trafic,
> presuming that the Apple list has about as little trafic as this one.
> My suggestion would be, as you say, to create the group at Groups.io, and
> then invite all the people from the original list.
> About the archives, I would personally preffer to have the archive in two
> different places, rather than not having it available at all.
> 
> This is just my personal view on the matter, and best of luck to you with
> finding a solution.
> 
> Kind regards:
> Aksel
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> End of Dectalk Digest, Vol 106, Issue 1
> ***************************************