[DECtalk] ESpeak/accessibility

Isaac bigikemusic at gmail.com
Wed Jun 16 21:18:30 EDT 2021


clat 4 sounds the best to me.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Blake Roberts via Dectalk" <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
To: "DECtalk" <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
Cc: "Blake Roberts" <BEarlRoberts at aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [DECtalk] ESpeak/accessibility


>I changed the subject when replying because the recent discussion on-list 
>went far beyond the thread I had started. I myself find it beneficial to 
>change subject line when discussions take new directions.
>
>
> Don: I understand and agree with your point about needing to consider 
> people with a variety of disabilities when developing products, including 
> software. A solution for one person with a particular disability may not 
> be the answer for someone with a similar or different disability. Example: 
> text-to-speech can help blind people or someone with dyslexia, but those 
> two people may use it to different extents.
>
>
> Regarding ESpeak: I myself choose not to use it because, as a list member 
> told me by phone some years ago who shall be nameless: "It sounds like 
> crap!" However, I recognize and respect that some people choose to use 
> ESpeak because the synthesizer meets their speed needs and/or they got use 
> to it etc.
>
>
> My point: I agree with Don about importance of considering the needs of as 
> many people with disabilities as possible when designing something, 
> hardware or software.
>
>
> Blake
>
>
>
>
> On 6/16/2021 3:07 PM, Don wrote:
>
>> On 6/16/2021 8:57 AM, Piotr Machacz wrote:
>>> That's not even the only problem with Espeak. The other serious issue 
>>> which
>>> makes it impossible to use for many projects is that it's GPL licensed. 
>>> So even
>>> if you were to fork it, made a much better sounding version on its 
>>> basis, the
>>> GPL license forces you to open-source all of your work as well which 
>>> makes it
>>> almost impossible to use for anything commercial.
>>
>> Actually, I plan on releasing everything as open source. But, anything
>> GPL would require me to insist that anyone USING my improvements would
>> also be burdened with the GPL.
>>
>> My goal is to encourage my stuff to be used. The more restrictions I
>> impose on it -- or have forced on me to impose on others -- the less
>> likely it is for someone to embrace it and the goals I'm trying to 
>> achieve.
>>
>> And those *goals* are the important thing -- not a copyright on a piece
>> of code or a patent on an idea!
>>
>>> So in the case of using it
>>> with a bluetooth headset or any other hardware even if you got Espeak 
>>> going on
>>> it, you'd have to also completely open-source all the firmware for the 
>>> device
>>> which could open you up to a lot of serious problems.
>>>
>>> THat being said, I too would love to hear what you've been working on. 
>>> ☺️
>>
>> There is a belief that you can design an "inclusive" device for no more
>> cost/effort than you can design a device that excludes users with
>> varied abilities/constraints.
>>
>> This is fantasy. If it was true, then it would be done every day!
>> You'd not need devices tailored for folks with different sets of
>> abilities. You'd be able to take advantage of the economies of
>> scale (mass production) for EVERY type of user.
>>
>> Instead, you have portions of the user base that have to be
>> addressed with SPECIALIZED products. With smaller markets,
>> those products tend to have higher costs (cost is what it
>> takes to MAKE something). And, often the needs of those
>> users have higher "support" costs -- it's more expensive
>> to sell a wheelchair than a motorized skateboard! You
>> can walk into a Walmart and buy a motorized board but would
>> need to be FITTED for a wheelchair!
>>
>> These conspire to drive the PRICE of the item up (price is
>> what you charge to SELL something).
>>
>> This makes the item harder to sell. Which makes it even
>> more expensive.
>>
>> Or, causes the product to be discontinued or the vendor
>> to exit the market.
>>
>> So, you REALLY want to be able to sell the same device to
>> EVERYONE -- instead of burdening one portion of the
>> marketplace with a more costly version of The Same Product.
>>
>> One of the things hampering accommodating folks with other
>> needs is the lack of tools to assist with those sorts of
>> development efforts. For example, you see all sorts of
>> tools that help you draw pretty pictures on a screen...
>> but nothing that makes it easy for you to express that
>> same information audibly. Or tactile.
>>
>> And, because of that, you don't have developers THINKING
>> about how they are presenting their "output". They
>> spend more time thinking about colors and fonts and
>> icons than the CONTENT that they are trying to convey.
>>
>> How many are even aware that many people can't tell red
>> from green? So, why pick red and green to signify stop
>> and go? Or, that many can't READ what's written on
>> the screen due to vision problems? Or, that those vision
>> problems are different in, for example, folks with a
>> congenital vision problem (like blind from birth) vs. those
>> who have lost their vision from an accident or diabetic
>> retinopathy. Or, those in the process of losing their
>> vision to macular degeneration?
>>
>> In other words, a braille display would be useless for
>> grandma losing her vision to cataracts -- she's unlikely
>> to ever invest the time in learning braille!
>>
>> Similarly, at advanced ages, how good would her hearing be?
>>
>> And, how do you convert a picture into words?
>>
>> How does a sighted paraplegic type on your keyboard?
>>
>> If you truly want something to be universally accessible,
>> then you have to consider each of these potential users
>> in the design of your user interface. You can't just
>> "bolt on" some sort of adapter (like a screen reader)
>> and consider the problem solved!
>>
>> Speech is just one "output modality" that addresses some
>> *portion* of the user base. If you need a PC in order to
>> create it, then you're now saddled with the cost and size
>> of a PC before you even get started!
>>
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