[DECtalk] WHAT SPEAKERS DOES EVERYONE USE

Jayson Smith ratguy at insightbb.com
Thu Jul 7 19:27:06 EDT 2011


 Hi,

Okay, let me try to explain this. As I understand it, *every* version of 
DECtalk ever produced, no matter who produced it or why, can sing. Almost 
certainly, anytime there is a DECtalk which can't sing, it's not that 
DECtalk can't sing, it's that the application using DECtalk won't let it 
sing. Ed, please correct me if any of this is wrong. This is probably an 
oversimplification but hopefully everyone will understand.

Imagine the process of getting a SAPI DECtalk to synthesize text as a system 
consisting of four layers. The bottom layer is the DECtalk synthesizer code 
itself. This is the heart and soul, the central core, of every project using 
DECtalk. It will do whatever it is told. If it receives commands to sing, it 
will sing. If it receives commands to change the voice in an interesting 
way, it will.

Above this is the layer which interfaces the DECtalk synthesizer with SAPI. 
This layer is responsible for allowing SAPI-capable programs to use DECtalk. 
It also insures DECtalk complies with all SAPI requirements, etc.

The next layer up is a SAPI-capable application. This may be a screen 
reader, a text reading or text to MP3 program, an audio game, or any number 
of other applications. This layer communicates with the SAPI layer in order 
to produce speech.

The top layer is the end user, that's you. This is the person at the 
keyboard who is using the application. He or she gives commands to the 
application and expects speech output.

As you can see, each layer receives instructions and data from the layer 
above it, and passes these down to the layer below. The problem is that some 
of these layers can do pre-processing or filtering on the text they receive 
before passing it on. Thus, it's a lot like the old game of "Telephone" 
wherein one person whispers something to the person next to him, then that 
other person whispers what he thought he heard to the next person, and so it 
continues until it gets around to the first person, by which time the phrase 
has probably changed significantly. Here's an example.

You, the user, are running a text reading program. It has a built-in 
exceptions dictionary feature, and you use this to correct several 
mispronunciations. You load a text file into the program and have it read.

The text reader pre-processes this text, applying the exceptions dictionary 
changes and possibly doing other filtering like removing some punctuation 
marks, etc. It then passes this processed and filtered text down to the SAPI 
layer.

The SAPI layer receives the text from the application. It may filter it on 
its own too. Let's say just for the sake of example that this particular 
SAPI DECtalk implementation filters out commands related to singing. So it 
does this processing and filtering, and passes the result down to the 
DECtalk layer.

Now the DECtalk code *finally* has the text and can synthesize it. But since 
two higher layers have had a chance to alter the original text, what the 
DECtalk code received may well be quite different from the original text as 
loaded or typed by the user.
Hope that helps.
Jayson

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Misch" <bmisch2002 at gmail.com>
To: "DECtalk Discussions" <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [DECtalk] WHAT SPEAKERS DOES EVERYONE USE


> take the sapi 5 version of dectalk that was on this list. sure, it was 
> dectalk but, you can't change voice parameters or anything because it's 
> just dectalk without the other stuff.
>
> On Jul 7, 2011, at 1:54 PM, Jayson Smith wrote:
>
>> I think I can probably shed some light on this. I assume when they said 
>> the
>> new SAPI wouldn't sing, they meant the SAPI program would strip or 
>> otherwise
>> make inoperative the commands required for DECtalk to sing. Ed, I fully
>> understand that, as far as the actual DECtalk synthesizer, the heart and
>> brain of the whole project is concerned, any version ever produced can 
>> sing.
>> However, the problem comes up when higher layers of code communicating 
>> with
>> the low-level DECtalk code deliberately or accidentally strip out or 
>> corrupt
>> the singing commands. I think that's what the confusion is.
>> Jayson
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "ebruckert Bruckert" <edbruckert at gmail.com>
>> To: "DECtalk Discussions" <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] WHAT SPEAKERS DOES EVERYONE USE
>>
>>
>>> I'm not sure where you're coming from because every single version of
>>> DECtalk ever released could sing. I need more specifics to tell you what
>>> your problem is, it is either the program sending stuff to the DECtalk
>>> stripping out commands or as a result of the two phonemic changes I have
>>> told you about. An easy test is to send ah simple with a long pitch and
>>> duration, and to be honest I'm a little offended by your references 
>>> about
>>> being disrespectful to Dennis Klatt. I was very close to him and I kind 
>>> of
>>> resent you telling me how he would feel, I I made a portrait of him and
>>> brought it to him and three hours later he went to the hospital for the
>>> last
>>> time.
>>>  When I say every DECtalk can sing I mean it, this blaming nonsense and
>>> we
>>> can figure out where the problem really is it is NOT in DECtalk.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:19 PM, <Dectalk at aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> **
>>>> *I for one just hope it sings.  I keep hearing screen reading only
>>>> garbage
>>>> even though you say every version sings.  I'm being assigned to handle
>>>> the
>>>> dictionary part of it and I keep saying "Only if it sings".  And I'll 
>>>> say
>>>> it
>>>> again, I won't touch a SAPI that won't sing because I feel it would be
>>>> disrespectful to Dennis Klatt. *
>>>> **
>>>> **
>>>> *SNOOPI BOTTEN *
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 7/7/2011 11:47:10 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>> edbruckert at gmail.com writes:
>>>>
>>>> Update on the quest for a new old DECtalk. In frustration I finally
>>>> called
>>>> my nephew and asked for a favor as he is a very very high level
>>>> programmer.
>>>> I found out that the free version of visual C I have, although it says 
>>>> it
>>>> can do it in fact can not. So he has agreed to get some of my old 
>>>> project
>>>> files compiling and working again to help me out. I want to make sure 
>>>> I'm
>>>> in
>>>> good shape before I spend the money for a proper version of Visual 
>>>> Studio
>>>> as
>>>> I'm on a fixed income. I'll be creating the project files and sending
>>>> them
>>>> to him via express mail tomorrow. This should be a huge help in
>>>> resurrecting
>>>> the old stuff. The exact versions aren't clear but if I have working 
>>>> code
>>>> I
>>>> can certainly re-create a lot of stuff as I know the speech software. 
>>>> The
>>>> code I have is all pre-release code and doesn't have version numbers in
>>>> it,
>>>> but as I never deleted any of the old code I should be able to get very
>>>> close at minimum. At least now I understand why my efforts have been so
>>>> unproductive.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Brandon Misch
>>>> <bmisch2002 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> the soundcard is a realtech audio sound card.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 1, 2011, at 8:16 AM, FRIDO ORDEMANN wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Good point - please rephrase the question for anyone you know! thank
>>>>> you
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* "Dectalk at aol.com" <Dectalk at aol.com>
>>>>> *To:* dectalk at bluegrasspals.com
>>>>> *Sent:* Fri, July 1, 2011 8:14:17 AM
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [DECtalk] WHAT SPEAKERS DOES EVERYONE USE
>>>>>
>>>>> *Personally I think we're asking the wrong question.  I think the 
>>>>> sound
>>>>> card is more important than the speakers.  Years ago I had a cheap 
>>>>> sound
>>>>> card that was actually lying to me.  On my end, my audio was going out
>>>>> both
>>>>> speakers in high quality.  But on the internet for the public it was a
>>>>> static mono sound.  So after I bought a very high quality sound card, 
>>>>> I
>>>>> heard how bad my stuff actually was.*
>>>>> **
>>>>> *I still don't get the true sound mix until I play stuff on my stereo,
>>>>> but I have learned to make my vocals lower than what I intend so it
>>>>> comes
>>>>> out right.*
>>>>> **
>>>>> **
>>>>> *SNOOPI BOTTEN*
>>>>>
>>>>> In a message dated 7/1/2011 7:42:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>>> ratguy at insightbb.com writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi again,
>>>>>
>>>>> Compounding this problem is the thing of computer speakers. I once had
>>>>> an
>>>>>
>>>>> IBM computer I bought from Radio Shack. It was a totally prefab 
>>>>> system,
>>>>> rather than custom built. It came with a pair of computer speakers.
>>>>> Someone
>>>>> told me they said "IBM" on them. You can bet, though, that somebody 
>>>>> else
>>>>> actually made the speakers. That's probably the problem you're going 
>>>>> to
>>>>> run
>>>>> into again and again with this research, people who are using
>>>>> computer-manufacturer-branded speakers or generic no-name speakers.
>>>>> Also,
>>>>>
>>>>> what of the people who have laptops and use the computer's internal
>>>>> speakers? I know some companies brag about the brand of the audio 
>>>>> system
>>>>> in
>>>>> their laptops, but probably the cheaper companies might use generic
>>>>> no-name
>>>>> products.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as headphones go, my favorites in the way of semi-professional
>>>>> headphones are made by Sony. I also have a pair of Audiotechnica
>>>>> headphones
>>>>> in-house.
>>>>> Jayson
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Corine Bickley" <corine.bickley at gallaudet.edu>
>>>>> To: "DECtalk Discussions" <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:34 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] WHAT SPEAKERS DOES EVERYONE USE
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jayson,
>>>>> Thank you - your feedback is exceedingly useful. This is the kind of
>>>>> information that I need. It may be that so many different speakers and
>>>>> headphones are used that I will never be able to test enough, but it's
>>>>> good to know there's so much variety out there.
>>>>> corine
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Jayson Smith <ratguy at insightbb.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I really don't know how to answer this question. On my own personal
>>>>>> DECtalk
>>>>>> Express I run it through a power speaker which was sold probably
>>>>>> approx.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 20
>>>>>> years ago by the C Crane company. No idea what brand it is though. In
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> stereo where I sometimes read books spoken by DECtalk, I have some
>>>>>> speakers
>>>>>> I picked up used from an individual. No idea what brand they are
>>>>>> either,
>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> they had to be repaired anyway so even if I did know the brand, it's
>>>>>> likely
>>>>>> the replacement components aren't of that brand. I also have another
>>>>>> Express
>>>>>> on my Linux system which I'm running through a pair of cheap Radio
>>>>>> Shack
>>>>>> power speakers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My dad uses two DECtalk Expresses and just uses the internal speaker.
>>>>>> Jayson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: <Dectalk at aol.com>
>>>>>> To: <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 5:48 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [DECtalk] WHAT SPEAKERS DOES EVERYONE USE
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been given a task by Enable Rehab to find out what brand of
>>>>>>> speakers everyone uses when listening to Dectalk. I guess they want
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> select the
>>>>>>> most used speakers and use them for testing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You all can email me directly at _dectalk at aol.com_
>>>>>>> (mailto:dectalk at aol.com <dectalk at aol.com>)
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm just glad it's going to sing!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SNOOPI BOTTEN
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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