[Rwp] some thoughts for the keymap development and things and stuff

Sat Feb 27 02:51:34 EST 2016

Yeh, I'll try and find the action that makes it not populate if you 
stand still.
That's the part that drives me nuts.
If anyone figures out where that setting resides, please holler.

On 2/26/2016 5:41 PM, James Teh wrote:
> The improvements coming in the next version of REAPER don't change the way you deal with outputs in any way. That's already accessible; it's just a combo box. I'm guessing the issue is that it commits the change after a short delay even if you just happened to pause and haven't finished selecting yet? If so, I wonder if disabling the pref for committing changes automatically after delay (can't remember the exact name offhand) would help. Also, does alt+downArrow help to expand the combo box first? I'll have to check that when in front of REAPER.
>
> Output selection can't really be in the track context menu because unlike input selection, it relates to routing. By default, REAPER outputs to the master. In contrast, in Sonar, you have to select an output (or accept the default). That automatic master track/bus doesn't exist in quite the same way AFAIK.
>
> Regarding multi-press, one other possibility worth noting is that we could have certain actions that open context menus for choice. As long as each menu item starts with a different letter, that means just two keystrokes for anything in that menu. This trick also means you don't have to memorise the second keystroke; you can use the arrows if you forget it. Just something else to consider when thinking about lesser used (but still useful) actions we might want in the default map. THIS isn't a 1 minute coding job, but it's not too bad if it offers a serious advantage.
>
> Sent from a mobile device
>
>> On 27 Feb 2016, at 8:59 AM, Scott Chesworth <scottchesworth at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Multi-press with OSARA can and has been done, but isn't trivial, and
>> given that Jamie is already over budget on the amount of hours that've
>> been devoted to development, it'll be unlikely that the system you're
>> describing will be part of OSARA. That's not to say a flat no to
>> everything multi-press. You know the drill, submit examples to GitHub
>> and he'll take them on a case by case basis. Similarly, the focus of
>> Jamie's dialog with Cockos themselves has to be on changes that will
>> improve accessibility for all users, rather than things that will
>> extend possibilities specifically for power users, tempting as it is.
>> Jamie has already gotten them to add some new API functionality and
>> spent some hours fighting with his own code to get around one of our
>> most lamented limitations, so it's already a dialog that's baring
>> fruit. The result will be with you soon.
>>
>> For what it's worth, I believe that you're right about sighted power
>> users making use of this if it were tied in with screen sets. I'd say
>> it's fairly likely to get some traction on the forum, but for the
>> reasons above, it's not something I'll encourage Jamie to take direct
>> to Cockos at this point without a concrete design that would be
>> massively beneficial to all OSARA users, particularly those who are
>> just making the switch to Reaper. There's nothing to stop you from
>> asking him instead of course, but I'll eat a print out of my Reaper
>> license if he sees it as high priority. There are rough edges that
>> need to be rounded off with Reaper's accessibility, and IMO, his
>> priority should be helping them fix existing bugs/limitations, as well
>> as a side salad of helping the Cockos development team understand more
>> about how the stuff they're implementing actually affects users, hence
>> future-proofing our access to Reaper.
>>
>> Sorry to be a stick in the mud. There's just not enough money in the
>> pot to have His Geniusness coding indefinitely, so some judiciousness
>> is required.
>>
>> My focus right now is on trying to come up with a concept that'd
>> neaten up the mappings that come bundled with OSARA, because almost
>> everyone will be using those from day 1. If anyone has a system in
>> mind that follows a clearer logic and uses less keys than what we're
>> currently bundling, I'm all ears. I have a few ideas that I'm fleshing
>> out here at the moment, but none of them feel like a game-changer yet,
>> so I'm eager for community input from a wide range of users. For now,
>> keep this on RWP rather than GitHub so the most amount of people can
>> read and contribute.
>>
>> Btw, the last paragraph is in no way a diss on the effort that Derek
>> and Gianluca have put in to the D&G key map. I use it every day, dig
>> most of it, and was quietly amazed at what Gianluca cooked up for
>> editing MIDI in particular. All I'm saying is that I think we've stuck
>> with the ReaAccess similarity because power users were familiar,
>> rather than sticking with it because it was a logical, extendable map.
>> I'm keen to have a less steep learning curve for newbies, even if it
>> means attempting to reprogram my own rusty old tin box of a brain and
>> consequently making me less productive for a few weeks while the
>> muscle memory develops.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>> On 2/26/16, Justin <justinmacleod at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> the only way it would simplify things, though I think it is a crucial
>>> one, is allowing us to get more milage out of the limited number of keys
>>> we have available.
>>>
>>> The thing is that this wouldn't be any extra work for Derek, Jamie,
>>> Genluka or anyone, just provide users with the ability to create
>>> multiple keyboard profiles and they can do with it as they will.
>>>
>>> Let's say for example I am dealing with a project that is very send and
>>> effects chain heavy. SWS provides actions to do such and such to this or
>>> that numbered send and this and that numbered slot in the effects chain.
>>> Well I would need to do a lot of this for this particular type of
>>> project, but then let's say I do other work that requires a lot of
>>> working with regions and markers. With keyboard sets, I could have a
>>> template for one type of project, devoting my number row to sends, and a
>>> template that's more navigation focussed, where the number row is used
>>> for markers and regions etc.
>>>
>>> the only other two ways I can think of to get round this problem are
>>> either for Jamie to implement user-defined multi-press key-mapping in
>>> the same way ReaEar does, though ReaEar's implementation isn't
>>> flaweless, or for us to just keep going til e run out of keys and then
>>> people just have to winnow out what they personally don't use for
>>> themselves, keeping only the most used key-bindings.
>>>
>>> The advantage of Reaper implementing it instead of Jamie is that it'd be
>>> less work for him and sighted people would benefit too. Lots do make
>>> heavy use of the shortcut keys,
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>>> On 26/02/2016 20:45, Scott Chesworth wrote:
>>>> Hey Justin, and anyone else who's interested in a multi-layer key map
>>>> or keyboard sets,
>>>>
>>>> I might as well say that as things stand I'm not a fan of this
>>>> concept, because I've never seen it implemented in such a way that
>>>> doesn't end up being just as confusing as the sprawling mappings it
>>>> was intended to simplify. That said, if anyone shoots over fleshed out
>>>> examples of precisely how this would simplify things, I'd gladly eat
>>>> my words, and can currently make sure it'll get seen by Cockos. That'd
>>>> give us at least a chance of getting the feature without the drudgery
>>>> of voting on requests etc.
>>>>
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/26/16, Justin <justinmacleod at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Sighted people have access to different screensets, which presumably
>>>>> allow them to use Reaper in multiple visual configurations. what we
>>>>> really need are keyboard sets, which would allow multiple shortcut key
>>>>> bindings for different scenarioes. We could start a thread on the
>>>>> feature requests forum asking for it, pointing out the benefits to
>>>>> sighted people and supporting one another in the request,
>>>>>
>>>>> Justin
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 26/02/2016 18:42, Chris Belle wrote:
>>>>>> Yeh, it's funny about that stuff, and what we get used to.
>>>>>> I'm kind of just the opposite on the IPad,
>>>>>> I thought I'd really want a bluetooth keyboard, but with the short
>>>>>> time I've spent on iOS,
>>>>>> I've become quite comfortable flipping and swiping my way around and
>>>>>> typing on a virtual keyboard.
>>>>>> I wouldn't want to write
>>>>>> my memoirs
>>>>>> on it 'grin', but hey, for modest data entry it's not so bad.
>>>>>> But getting back to reaper,
>>>>>> I wonder if there's a way to make it distinguish between different
>>>>>> keyboards as separate devices.
>>>>>> Probably not,
>>>>>> but if it could, then that's a big possibility for a whole other layer
>>>>>> of action bindings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/26/2016 10:30 AM, Patrick Perdue wrote:
>>>>>>> I have an old Dell laptop from 2009 that I have upgraded a bit. It's
>>>>>>> a core2 duo T9600. I stuck 8GB of ram, a 240GB SSD and an 802.11AC
>>>>>>> wireless card in it, all of which I had lying around, believe it or
>>>>>>> not, and it runs pretty good as a casual stuff machine. It even has a
>>>>>>> firewire controller if I need that. That one has a virtual numpad,
>>>>>>> but my main laptop doesn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given that I've been primarily using laptops or Mac desktops for the
>>>>>>> past few years, it's kind of strange to see a full desktop keyboard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm all like "Oh, right... that extra bunch of keys over there...
>>>>>>> Forgot about those..."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2016 11:14 AM, Chris Belle wrote:
>>>>>>>> Ah, I'm the neanderthal here, I just insist on an old style keyboard,
>>>>>>>> even when using a laptop, I found out long time ago it was just too
>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>> of a pain to deal with the limitations of not having those extra
>>>>>>>> keys,
>>>>>>>> and I have a couple of USB numeric key pad thingies
>>>>>>>> which are a good compromise when I just can't haul around a keyboard.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2016 8:20 AM, Patrick Perdue wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Yep. No numpad either, so I have mapped a bunch of the most common
>>>>>>>>> numpad things I use to other keys that would probably not make much
>>>>>>>>> sense to anyone but me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2016 8:59 AM, Juan Pablo Bello wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we need a better way to structure things.. on
>>>>>>>>>> keymaps.
>>>>>>>>>> THere is just no way I am ever going to be able to use the numeric
>>>>>>>>>> keypad on this laptop, because it just does not even have an
>>>>>>>>>> emulation
>>>>>>>>>> built in. Its just unacceptable, but that is theway it came I I
>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>> i am not alone on that department. Or, I would just have to buy and
>>>>>>>>>> use a separate keyboard..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And, nice going with the portable installs, I think that is just a
>>>>>>>>>> bit
>>>>>>>>>> unnecessary since you are able to create and automate reaper
>>>>>>>>>> things..
>>>>>>>>>> its better to have just created a script and automate reaper to
>>>>>>>>>> select
>>>>>>>>>> your audiod evices ETC when you first launch it... ETC because
>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>> several installs of the program I think is a bit convoluted at
>>>>>>>>>> best.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2016-02-26 3:22 GMT-05:00, Patrick Perdue <patrick at pdaudio.net>:
>>>>>>>>>>> Chris:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just so you know, control win anything is not viable in Windows
>>>>>>>>>>> 10.
>>>>>>>>>>> Windows does a lot more now with, go figure...  the windows key.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/26/2016 3:19 AM, Chris Belle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> There's been a lot of talk about how we are running out of room
>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> keymap.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've noticed some duplications, first we should weed those out.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I also have some very useful actions that I use all the time,
>>>>>>>>>>>> depending
>>>>>>>>>>>> on what you do you may not want these but these are some of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> one's I
>>>>>>>>>>>> bind.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Actions to move fx up and down in the chain.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I bind those to control win up and down arrows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     I also like the one for turning markers to regions for
>>>>>>>>>>>> exporting
>>>>>>>>>>>> chunks of a long project, like audio books and such.
>>>>>>>>>>>> control win m
>>>>>>>>>>>> When you do that you can set your render options to export
>>>>>>>>>>>> regions,
>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>> useful.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think reaper lends itself especially well to long spoken word
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> audio book type projects, and I often have a couple of portable
>>>>>>>>>>>> copies
>>>>>>>>>>>> or reaper rendering out long jobs while another reaper copy is
>>>>>>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>>>>>>> something else.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hence my  reasons for loving portable reaper because each can
>>>>>>>>>>>> live on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the same machine,
>>>>>>>>>>>> \with it's own config doing tasks while your doing something
>>>>>>>>>>>> else with
>>>>>>>>>>>> another instance.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can of course, instantiate a reaper instance  by just typing
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> path to the executable in the run box with the - newinst
>>>>>>>>>>>> switch, but if you copy the folder to a new place with another
>>>>>>>>>>>> name,
>>>>>>>>>>>> you can have another configuration like for dummy audio for those
>>>>>>>>>>>> rendering jobs,
>>>>>>>>>>>> or another sound card for recording, and leave it like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>> So I have reaper1, reaper2, and so on and so forth
>>>>>>>>>>>> not always that complex, but it's nice to know I can do that if
>>>>>>>>>>>> I need
>>>>>>>>>>>> to.
>>>>>>>>>>>> There you go, for what it's worth.
>>>>>>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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