[Rwp] different driver modes in reaper

Chris Belle cb1963 at sbcglobal.net
Wed Apr 20 00:28:16 EDT 2016 

By the way, one more thing.
the labeled track inputs in reaper now say just one and 2 no longer 
reflecting the names of the devices.


On 4/19/2016 10:40 PM, Chris Belle wrote:
> But I guess it doesn't matter on the little devices because when you 
> plug in anything, it turns in to a compossit device anyway,
> you don't get the separate ins and outs,
> I'm not sure which device actually has the clock,
> but what is interesting is that when I plug a class compliant USB 
> device to the Ipad,
> and plug a mic or what ever in to it, and then plug headphones or 
> speakers in to the analog jack of the ipad, the USB device I plugged 
> in has control
> of the volume, even though the sound is going out of the Ipad analog out.
> This isn't true for true analog controls like on the audiobox usb,
> but for this little thumb drive
> like sound card via chip device which has up and down buttons on it 
> softwre controled volume I'm sure.
> so the question is does the dac in the Ipad have control of the sound 
> and handed the control off to the controls of the
> little external card, or is it the other way around?
> They've combined in some way.
> to act like one device.
>
> On 4/19/2016 10:28 PM, Chris Belle wrote:
>> If it were only that simple.
>> Serious audio guys will use an external dac anyway, interface, what 
>> have you.
>> I get it that an 8th inch jack unbalanced isn't the pro standard, but 
>> surprisingly clean and quiet on my Ipad.
>> But  my point is
>> compatibility with all the high end headphones out there which people 
>> might want to use, and forcing people to use another dac just to get 
>> an analog signal to said phones, or speakers will defeat the point of 
>> even having a sound chip on the apple.
>> In some ways at any rate, yes they will allow to go to their built in 
>> speakers or what ever, but you needed  buffered data of some kind to 
>> get out
>> to the outside world, through the lightning port which is just USB 
>> more or less,
>> so you loose the possibility of having the best latency from the 
>> built in chip even if it has to go out through that 8th inch jack.
>>
>> On 4/19/2016 9:56 PM, Snowman wrote:
>>> digital, digital, digital, digital,. digital.
>>> Analog is just old school.  Dull and boring, and not very 
>>> interesting either. Oh boy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at bluegrasspals.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 2:17 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rwp] different driver modes in reaper
>>>
>>>
>>>> Not a good move on apple's part in my oppinion.
>>>> I guess they'll have to have some sort of external dac or adapter 
>>>> so folks can run other than apple sanctioned or bluetooth
>>>> audio.
>>>> They really should at least leave you a standard headphone or 
>>>> speaker out.
>>>> I guess they'll have some sort of hub thing so you can charge your 
>>>> phone or what ever and plug the adapter for standard headphones in 
>>>> at the same time.
>>>> Meh.
>>>>
>>>> On 4/18/2016 7:52 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:
>>>>> True, and, since Apple is ditching analog audio I/O, I doubt it 
>>>>> will ever be fixed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bryan
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 18, 2016, at 8:46 PM, Patrick Perdue 
>>>>>> <patrick at perdue.audio> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You know what's kind of funny? Obviously, you'll get some cross 
>>>>>> talk with a combo mic/headphone jack like that, but it seems like 
>>>>>> the jacks/chips Apple use on all their stuff (iPhone, iPad, Macs) 
>>>>>> are some of the worst offenders. I have a junky low-end Acer 
>>>>>> Windows tablet with one of these combo jacks, and cross talk is 
>>>>>> almost, but not quite non-existent. With the same ear pods on my 
>>>>>> iPhone or Mac, it's noticeably much worse. The iStuff uses Cirrus 
>>>>>> Logic DAC's, while the cheap Acer uses an integrated Intel 
>>>>>> something-or-other. Of course, in this case, the D/A stage is not 
>>>>>> to blame.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just an interesting thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/18/2016 8:04 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:
>>>>>>> I’ve been doing this for a while. Built-in sound device on my 
>>>>>>> Macbook Air works in WSAPI mode with practically no latency. You 
>>>>>>> can have junky sequencing sessions with just the laptop, virtual 
>>>>>>> MIDI keyboard, and earbuds plugged in. I’d actually consider 
>>>>>>> using the earbuds mic for something, but the combo earbuds jack 
>>>>>>> leaks sound from the earbuds back in to the mic, so I still must 
>>>>>>> plug in a dedicated mic to record a vocal/voice over. Oh well. 
>>>>>>> Can’t have it all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bryan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 18, 2016, at 1:03 PM, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well wonders will never cease.
>>>>>>>> I think with windows 10 we've finally got something approaching 
>>>>>>>> note I said approaching core audio low latency with junky 
>>>>>>>> internal devices.
>>>>>>>> Just took wasapi for a spin,
>>>>>>>> and it works better on this machine than my nice steinberg 
>>>>>>>> interface, I think I'm going to go sit in the corner and cry, ha.
>>>>>>>> But serious now, this is great, it means you can now do casual 
>>>>>>>> things with the onboard hardware and work at low latencies, and 
>>>>>>>> that's not a reason to be trying to do all yourstudio stuff 
>>>>>>>> like that because plenty of reasons not to record with those 
>>>>>>>> little 8th inch jacks for pro stuf, and the internal realtech 
>>>>>>>> device is hardy a pro device, but mixing on the bus, or 
>>>>>>>> throwing together some casual midi tracks, this will make it 
>>>>>>>> nicer to do such things in windows.
>>>>>>>> finally,
>>>>>>>> wasapi was in windows 7 but it had lots of latency.
>>>>>>>> so I didn't solve my problem yet, but I did get a couple candy 
>>>>>>>> drops for upgrading to windows 10 so hey,
>>>>>>>> hurray for wasapi how ever far it get's us.
>>>>>>>> Now I'm really curious since I think these realtech cards will 
>>>>>>>> actually support up to 96k and 24 bit if it will actualy record 
>>>>>>>> like that does reaper give a round trip latency like sonar does 
>>>>>>>> anyplace?
>>>>>>>> somewhere in the audio device
>>>>>>>> dialogue?
>>>>>>>> It says 0 latency in there when you are setting your buffer 
>>>>>>>> size, but it can'treally be that.
>>>>>>>> There's always some since any audio system is a buffered system.
>>>>>>>> but I took out everything and it keeps putting 32 back in there.
>>>>>>>> so if we're really getting 32 buffers under wasapi,
>>>>>>>> and if it's buffered similar to asio that's prety impressive 
>>>>>>>> for a garden variety internal card.
>>>>>>>> Don't make the mistake like I did of picking exclusive mode, 
>>>>>>>> and especially if you only have one sound card in the system,
>>>>>>>> your speech will go away and you might have to do sumersaults 
>>>>>>>> to get it back.
>>>>>>>> Luckily, I have lots of devices around here, every blindy needs 
>>>>>>>> to keep around some class compliant devices for this sort of 
>>>>>>>> issue,
>>>>>>>> I pulled a good one the other day I was gonna disable the intel 
>>>>>>>> sound for the
>>>>>>>> high definition audio that comes on most display chips these 
>>>>>>>> days, you don't need it and it's best not to be taking up 
>>>>>>>> resources with an audio driver you'll probably never use.
>>>>>>>> But I got in a hurry and disabled the main sound card on my 
>>>>>>>> wife's laptop,
>>>>>>>> so luckily I got speech going again with good old narrator and 
>>>>>>>> a thumb drive like class compliant USB sound card.
>>>>>>>> anything will work, like logitech headphones, or USB speakers, 
>>>>>>>> so long as they're class compliant.
>>>>>>>> Well, fun times again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/18/2016 11:19 AM, Chris Belle wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Well, I tried out another USB interface I have here, and also 
>>>>>>>>> the steinberg in sonar, and well, I think that for what ever 
>>>>>>>>> reason, the audio system on this machine is dogging down in 
>>>>>>>>> windows 10.
>>>>>>>>> How ever, on my explorations, I've discovered somem 
>>>>>>>>> interesting things.
>>>>>>>>> I didn't think reaper really supported wdm as an option,
>>>>>>>>> but when I was testing the presonus audiobox USB, it showed 
>>>>>>>>> up, and lo and behold, it works like sonar does with class 
>>>>>>>>> compliant devices now, and
>>>>>>>>> you're able to change buffer sizes and such in a really 
>>>>>>>>> accessible way.
>>>>>>>>> Now wdm I think with class compliant devices is usually 
>>>>>>>>> limited to 44.1 or 48k depending, and 16 bit, so I usually 
>>>>>>>>> don't bother with it you get better results with asio anyway,
>>>>>>>>> and it's usually more stable, and generally a more 
>>>>>>>>> professional system, but it's nice to see that reaper now 
>>>>>>>>> allows this sort of support for other driver modes.
>>>>>>>>> Just for giggles, I'm going to see if it shows up for the 
>>>>>>>>> internal card.
>>>>>>>>> The other reason I'm interested in this generic mode of wdm is 
>>>>>>>>> that the asio pannel in the audiobox USB didn't show a thing 
>>>>>>>>> with NVDA so I'm going to have to try it with another screen 
>>>>>>>>> reader,
>>>>>>>>> because I can't change a thing in there, and  it's set to some 
>>>>>>>>> ridiculously relaxed place llike 512 or 1024 from the way it 
>>>>>>>>> acts.
>>>>>>>>> Fun times.
>>>>>>>>>
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