[Rwp] different driver modes in reaper

Keith Hinton keithint1234 at gmail.com
Mon Apr 18 22:23:42 EDT 2016 

Bryan, just to clarify.
Your running WASAPI in shared mode, right?
I believe the problem of running it in exclusive mode still exists;
that is, you'd get lower latency, but then, if you do that, speech
can't come through the same device.
And right now, all I have is this single sound card machine to contend
with, no dedicated interface at this time.
So I'm imagining I'll need to use shared mode, not exclusive mode.

Or, does WASapi allow speech in exclusive mode?

On 4/18/16, Bryan Smart <bryansmart at bryansmart.com> wrote:
> Using WSAPI on a mid 2013 Macbook Air, running Windows 10.
>
> As I recall, WSAPI never worked well for me in Win 7. I used to use WDM mode
> for built-in sound, though you had to match sample rates, and you still
> couldn't run with all that low of latency. It was just low enough to play,
> but still a bit sloppy. WSAPI is practically real-time.
>
> Bryan
>
>> On Apr 18, 2016, at 9:42 PM, Keith Hinton <keithint1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Bryan, just curious, but what version of Windows are you presently
>> using Reaper on in WASAPI mode? I'd guess Windows 10 or earlier. I'm
>> happy to hear it works for you; WASAPI works flawlessly on this
>> machine of mine as well.
>>
>>> On 4/18/16, Bryan Smart <bryansmart at bryansmart.com> wrote:
>>> True, and, since Apple is ditching analog audio I/O, I doubt it will ever
>>> be
>>> fixed.
>>>
>>> Bryan
>>>
>>>> On Apr 18, 2016, at 8:46 PM, Patrick Perdue <patrick at perdue.audio>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You know what's kind of funny? Obviously, you'll get some cross talk
>>>> with
>>>> a combo mic/headphone jack like that, but it seems like the jacks/chips
>>>> Apple use on all their stuff (iPhone, iPad, Macs) are some of the worst
>>>> offenders. I have a junky low-end Acer Windows tablet with one of these
>>>> combo jacks, and cross talk is almost, but not quite non-existent. With
>>>> the same ear pods on my iPhone or Mac, it's noticeably much worse. The
>>>> iStuff uses Cirrus Logic DAC's, while the cheap Acer uses an integrated
>>>> Intel something-or-other. Of course, in this case, the D/A stage is not
>>>> to
>>>> blame.
>>>>
>>>> Just an interesting thing.
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/18/2016 8:04 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:
>>>>> I’ve been doing this for a while. Built-in sound device on my Macbook
>>>>> Air
>>>>> works in WSAPI mode with practically no latency. You can have junky
>>>>> sequencing sessions with just the laptop, virtual MIDI keyboard, and
>>>>> earbuds plugged in. I’d actually consider using the earbuds mic for
>>>>> something, but the combo earbuds jack leaks sound from the earbuds
>>>>> back
>>>>> in to the mic, so I still must plug in a dedicated mic to record a
>>>>> vocal/voice over. Oh well. Can’t have it all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bryan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 18, 2016, at 1:03 PM, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well wonders will never cease.
>>>>>> I think with windows 10 we've finally got something approaching note
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> said approaching core audio low latency with junky internal devices.
>>>>>> Just took wasapi for a spin,
>>>>>> and it works better on this machine than my nice steinberg interface,
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> think I'm going to go sit in the corner and cry, ha.
>>>>>> But serious now, this is great, it means you can now do casual things
>>>>>> with the onboard hardware and work at low latencies, and that's not a
>>>>>> reason to be trying to do all yourstudio stuff like that because
>>>>>> plenty
>>>>>> of reasons not to record with those little 8th inch jacks for pro
>>>>>> stuf,
>>>>>> and the internal realtech device is hardy a pro device, but mixing on
>>>>>> the bus, or throwing together some casual midi tracks, this will make
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> nicer to do such things in windows.
>>>>>> finally,
>>>>>> wasapi was in windows 7 but it had lots of latency.
>>>>>> so I didn't solve my problem yet, but I did get a couple candy drops
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> upgrading to windows 10 so hey,
>>>>>> hurray for wasapi how ever far it get's us.
>>>>>> Now I'm really curious since I think these realtech cards will
>>>>>> actually
>>>>>> support up to 96k and 24 bit if it will actualy record like that does
>>>>>> reaper give a round trip latency like sonar does anyplace?
>>>>>> somewhere in the audio device
>>>>>> dialogue?
>>>>>> It says 0 latency in there when you are setting your buffer size, but
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> can'treally be that.
>>>>>> There's always some since any audio system is a buffered system.
>>>>>> but I took out everything and it keeps putting 32 back in there.
>>>>>> so if we're really getting 32 buffers under wasapi,
>>>>>> and if it's buffered similar to asio that's prety impressive for a
>>>>>> garden variety internal card.
>>>>>> Don't make the mistake like I did of picking exclusive mode, and
>>>>>> especially if you only have one sound card in the system,
>>>>>> your speech will go away and you might have to do sumersaults to get
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> back.
>>>>>> Luckily, I have lots of devices around here, every blindy needs to
>>>>>> keep
>>>>>> around some class compliant devices for this sort of issue,
>>>>>> I pulled a good one the other day I was gonna disable the intel sound
>>>>>> for the
>>>>>> high definition audio that comes on most display chips these days,
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> don't need it and it's best not to be taking up resources with an
>>>>>> audio
>>>>>> driver you'll probably never use.
>>>>>> But I got in a hurry and disabled the main sound card on my wife's
>>>>>> laptop,
>>>>>> so luckily I got speech going again with good old narrator and a
>>>>>> thumb
>>>>>> drive like class compliant USB sound card.
>>>>>> anything will work, like logitech headphones, or USB speakers, so
>>>>>> long
>>>>>> as they're class compliant.
>>>>>> Well, fun times again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/18/2016 11:19 AM, Chris Belle wrote:
>>>>>>> Well, I tried out another USB interface I have here, and also the
>>>>>>> steinberg in sonar, and well, I think that for what ever reason, the
>>>>>>> audio system on this machine is dogging down in windows 10.
>>>>>>> How ever, on my explorations, I've discovered somem interesting
>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>> I didn't think reaper really supported wdm as an option,
>>>>>>> but when I was testing the presonus audiobox USB, it showed up, and
>>>>>>> lo
>>>>>>> and behold, it works like sonar does with class compliant devices
>>>>>>> now,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> you're able to change buffer sizes and such in a really accessible
>>>>>>> way.
>>>>>>> Now wdm I think with class compliant devices is usually limited to
>>>>>>> 44.1
>>>>>>> or 48k depending, and 16 bit, so I usually don't bother with it you
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> better results with asio anyway,
>>>>>>> and it's usually more stable, and generally a more professional
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> but it's nice to see that reaper now allows this sort of support for
>>>>>>> other driver modes.
>>>>>>> Just for giggles, I'm going to see if it shows up for the internal
>>>>>>> card.
>>>>>>> The other reason I'm interested in this generic mode of wdm is that
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> asio pannel in the audiobox USB didn't show a thing with NVDA so I'm
>>>>>>> going to have to try it with another screen reader,
>>>>>>> because I can't change a thing in there, and  it's set to some
>>>>>>> ridiculously relaxed place llike 512 or 1024 from the way it acts.
>>>>>>> Fun times.
>>>>>>>
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