[Rwp] [RWP] OSARA, an open-source ReaAccess replacement in development

Wed Feb 4 21:03:41 EST 2015

Scot, maybe I'm too much an old hippiek, and want to believe reality is 
nicer than it is, but I believe that if you let your stuff get out to 
more people,
with a less heavy handed method,
you can sell more product, and people won't rip you off as bad if you're 
not so worried about keeping people from screwing you over.

One reason gwmicro enjoyed more loyalty even though they're product was 
less useful than jaws in some ways was it's customer treatment.

This was more true than it is now,
\in the early days,
but
I guess by the very nature of how jaws scripts work that it's be pretty 
hard to make a stand alone version of ct which had it's own 
authorization, but jaws could certainly be handled that way server side.

I don' know, maybe a stand alone version of jaws and ct,
\like an embedded thing,
not being a programmer with Jim's chops,
I probabhly can't imagine all the ways,
but for me, a little better attitude toward selling me a dongle would 
have been a big help for me respecting that company more.

A pre authorized dongle isn't such a bad way to go anyway,
and that is kind of the way the industry is going.

But they need to make it easy for us to deal with, there are other 
authorization schemes that use a dongle which are a real bear.

I've known way too many jaws users loose their authorizations
just by turning on a sound card, or drive, that's just ridiculous.

On 2/4/2015 1:45 PM, Scott Chesworth via RWP wrote:
> Jim, I'm almost 100% in agreement with you, and try to live by similar
> rules. There are however, things that get my goat. For example, why
> the hell does CakeTalking not work with a JAWS demo. It smacks of the
> cash cows exchanging kickbacks, but even if that isn't happening, it's
> one more barrier in the way of the guy just getting started, and it's
> a barrier that isn't there for the sighted guy getting started. I
> understand the hundreds of hours of development time need to be
> recouped somehow, but tying it to the authorization of another
> investment surely isn't the way forward. It's a shame, because there
> are some paid HSC sets out there that I'd love to purchase, but again,
> they're tied to a product that I just can't justify the cost of
> nowadays. If there was a way that I could support the indie developer
> and I could do my thing using that HSC set, be in and out of that task
> within 40 minutes, I'd probably spend more money on HSC sets than
> anything else. Sure, FS will lose out on sales, but in my case it's a
> sale they never had anyway, and never will until some actual
> innovation happens.
>
>
> On 2/4/15, Jim Snowbarger via RWP <rwp at bluegrasspals.com> wrote:
>> Digging deep to help pay your own way is good for the soul.
>>
>> Remember the controversy I sparked when I commented on one person's  remark
>> that he didn't feel that he should have to pay for his blindness?
>> Who then, I wondered, should.  Everybody else?
>> What we have is a market that is too small to adequately support it's own
>> costs.  There aren't enough of us to pay the freight.
>> You can say that this or that price isn't fair, especially when you compare
>> it to some item in a market that is far and away large enough.
>> But, it's not an apples to apples comparison.  Providing accessibility
>> solutions is hugely expensive and difficult.
>> And, when you are talking the practical realities of managing a company,
>> paying your employees, your taxes, your rent, and all the rest of it, you've
>> got to raise revenue.
>> Many of us have contributed hugely out of our own free time, and our skill,
>> to try to help lift the burden.  And, still some poor blinks complain at
>> having to pay anything at all.
>> But, I ignore them.
>> When you look at what Jamie and partners have accomplished with NVDA, and
>> look at how much revenue they have raised from the blind community, I bet
>> you would have to conclude that it is HUGE charity.  If it weren't fror the
>> grants, they'd be screwed.  And, the availability of grants depends on
>> certain conditions out of our control.
>> Charity comes and goes like the wind.  For the sake of our own stability, it
>> is best to depend on it as little as possible.
>>
>> But, at the end of the day, I guess I consider it a moral and ethical
>> question.
>> Even if I am dirt poor, and have nothing, there is spiritual richness and
>> reward in digging up whatever I can spare, plus a little more until it
>> hurts, and investing it in the thing I need to have happen.   I'm pretty
>> sure that's my mission in life, to the best of my ability, to help pay my
>> own way.
>> And, to be honest, I am more willing to help people who are doing likewise,
>> than I am somebody who thinks the world owes them a living.
>> I'm not suggesting that anyone here is like that.  But, god knows there are
>> plenty of them around.  It's a mental condition bread by the welfare state.
>> And, it is counter productive.
>> End of speech.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: RWP [mailto:rwp-bounces at bluegrasspals.com] On Behalf Of Scott
>> Chesworth via RWP
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 12:53 PM
>> To: Reapers Without Peepers
>> Subject: Re: [Rwp] [RWP] OSARA, an open-source ReaAccess replacement in
>> development
>>
>> To be fair Chris, we've already had a few public mentions of donations here
>> from people that I'm fairly sure are serious enough to put their hands in
>> their pockets, plus in March I'm applying for a grant that'd tide Jamie over
>> for a while once the fun wears off. Granted, that's not much, but it's a
>> more encouraging response than ReaAccess got financially. In any case, when
>> it comes to CT, I find it ridiculous that the accessibility package plus
>> screen reader costs way more than the DAW itself. That's before considering
>> that Sonar itself could be seen as overpriced unless you're actually gonna
>> use the synths and plugs it comes bundled with. I doubt you'll disagree that
>> CT's business model sucks the big one for blind people.
>>
>> On 2/4/15, Chris Belle via RWP <rwp at bluegrasspals.com> wrote:
>>> I hate this ghetto mentallity toard
>>> doing something skilled and
>>> doing a professional job.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheap has a lot of meanings, but it often means of low quality, or
>>> takin what you can get.
>>> I run a business here,
>>> and I expect to have to pay for the cost of doing business, diferent
>>> for folks just doing a hobby, I know, but this sort of we want it all
>>> for nothing and poor blindy mentallity is why nothing ever gets done
>>> for reaper.
>>>
>>> I know us blind
>>> aren't rich folks, but most blindies I know will pay for what they
>>> want, they'll buy a 800 dollar iphone, but bitch about paying 10 bucks
>>> for a piece of software, now just think if everyone gave 20 bucks for
>>> reaper development for someone like Jamie to develop reaper, how far
>>> we'd get?
>>>
>>> You don't think Jamie worked for nothing when I was working with him
>>> for sonar development back a few years ago?
>>>
>>> Quiet a few benefited and piggy backed off that I imagine.
>>>
>>> So if you're not willing to put a few bucks in to what you do, then
>>> you have no business doing it, you're not serious about it.
>>>
>>> That's just how I feel about the whole thing, when you pay for
>>> something, you respect it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/4/2015 6:13 AM, Hrvoje Katić via RWP wrote:
>>>> Yep, but CakeTalking costs too much as well as Sonar. Reaper is far
>>>> more cheap and accessibility solution is freeware.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LP,
>>>> Hrvoje
>>>>
>>>> Private email: hrvoje.katic at yandex.com
>>>> <mailto:hrvoje.katic at yandex.com>
>>>>
>>>> Web site: Click here <http://hrvix.wordpress.com/>
>>>>
>>>> Facebook: Click here <http://www.facebook.com/hrvix>
>>>>
>>>> Twitter: Click here <http://www.twitter.com/hrvix>
>>>>
>>>> Skype Id: hrvojekatic
>>>>
>>>> Mobile: 095/585-7034
>>>>
>>>> 4.2.2015. u 13:04, Jayson Smith via RWP je napisao/la:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I, too, would be in favor of single-key commands for the most common
>>>>> actions. Cake Talking for Sonar, which is for me the gold standard
>>>>> of DAW accessibility, uses single-key commands for the most common
>>>>> actions. Mute, solo, arm, etc. And it has a standard view where you
>>>>> use up/down to move between tracks, and left/right to move between
>>>>> parameters on a track such as name, mute, solo, arm, volume, pan, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jayson
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/4/2015 3:37 AM, Hrvoje Katić via RWP wrote:
>>>>>> Well, personally I don't like default Reaper keymap. Some important
>>>>>> actions are not assigned to any keystroke by default (move by beats
>>>>>> and bars is a good example), and you have to hold control and alt
>>>>>> while navigating tracks with up and down arrow, and also
>>>>>> control+alt+arrow keys have a conflict with some graphics drivers
>>>>>> where these keystrokes are assigned to rotate screen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LP,
>>>>>> Hrvoje
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Private email: hrvoje.katic at yandex.com
>>>>>> <mailto:hrvoje.katic at yandex.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Web site: Click here <http://hrvix.wordpress.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Facebook: Click here <http://www.facebook.com/hrvix>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Twitter: Click here <http://www.twitter.com/hrvix>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Skype Id: hrvojekatic
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mobile: 095/585-7034
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4.2.2015. u 0:44, Zack Benton via RWP je napisao/la:
>>>>>>> Agreed, I admit that the re access keymap is a bit harder to learn.
>>>>>>> On 2/3/2015 18:16, James Teh via RWP wrote:
>>>>>>>> Anyway, I didn't mean to start a debate on what is "best";
>>>>>>>> everyone has their preferences. My point is that if even I (as
>>>>>>>> the primary author) am using something different to the ReaAccess
>>>>>>>> key map, I'd be very reluctant to include a ReaAccess based key
>>>>>>>> map as the default. At the very least, that key map is harder to
>>>>>>>> learn initially. This is why I haven't included a key map at all
>>>>>>>> at this point. Perhaps we could include a ReaAccess key map as an
>>>>>>>> option, but I'm reluctant to make it a "default".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/02/2015 7:19 AM, Scott Chesworth via RWP wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I have alien length fingers, so this might not work for
>>>>>>>>> everyone, but I've found non-separated F keys a lot easier since
>>>>>>>>> I started treating them as an extra row rather than counting
>>>>>>>>> along them. The experience is a little different from laptop to
>>>>>>>>> laptop, but with a wee bit of practice to get the muscle memory
>>>>>>>>> locked in I can comfortably hit mute, solo, arm, phase etc
>>>>>>>>> without leaving the touch typing position or counting. This is
>>>>>>>>> coming from someone who fought pretty hard against those keys
>>>>>>>>> being used for those functions in the first place, so I guess
>>>>>>>>> you could say I'm converted now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>> RWP at bluegrasspals.com
>>>>>>> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>> RWP at bluegrasspals.com
>>>>>> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>> RWP at bluegrasspals.com
>>>>> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>> RWP at bluegrasspals.com
>>>> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> RWP mailing list
>>> RWP at bluegrasspals.com
>>> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RWP mailing list
>> RWP at bluegrasspals.com
>> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RWP mailing list
>> RWP at bluegrasspals.com
>> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp
>>
> _______________________________________________
> RWP mailing list
> RWP at bluegrasspals.com
> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp