[Rwp] A Mac?

[John Schucker]

Oh unfortunately I see it doesn't work under Win 8. That's too bad.

On 8/17/2015 02:56, Chris Belle via RWP wrote:
>
> Try,
>
> http://www.thesycon.de/eng/free_download.shtml
>
> That's the one Jim uses.
> And it's accessible.
>
> On 8/17/2015 1:51 AM, John Schucker via RWP wrote:
>> The next obvious question is, how do you find out what your latencies 
>> are? I get that you can't offer a ton of build advice because you 
>> maybe haven't done it and as you've said getting the right components 
>> can be tricky. But particularly for new buyers, if you know the 
>> latencies to look for and you might be returning a machine, I'd think 
>> something to calculate those would be nice.
>>
>> I mean, let's go with something crazy, you get a tablet to do audio 
>> work on. It would be a lot nicer to go "I'm going to run blah to 
>> calculate DPC latencies and find out I need to take it back in a 
>> day", as opposed to "well I was gonna test stuff on it and then I got 
>> busy the next few days and then I did some midi which worked OK, and 
>> then I got busy the next few days and by the time I found out it 
>> wasn't gonna do audio, the return period was up".
>>
>> I'm not in the market for anything new right now, the new accordion 
>> says money's been spent. But I've seen prices on some of the machines 
>> you're talking about, and they can run a couple thousand. I can get a 
>> pretty beefy off the shelf machine for half that, probably less. I'll 
>> grant you, as you've said ideally we'd all get crazy audio 
>> workstations, and use them only for audio and have a totally separate 
>> machine for all of our internet and games and what have you.
>>
>> However,  as you've also pointed out, that ain't always the case. But 
>> I'd think if you've got something to determine DPC latencies, and 
>> perhaps some research on potential methods to lower them, you could 
>> get some decent off the shelf machine and at least give it a solid 
>> shot. I don't think you should pick the absolute cheapest new/used 
>> thing unless you absolutely have to. But I'm also probably not 
>> getting a several thousand dollar machine solely for audio work 
>> either, unless I come into some serious money at some point. I doubt 
>> I'm alone. So I for one would be curious if there's a way to 
>> determine my current machine's latency. I'm probably not alone in 
>> that either, unless I am of course. You never know. I just bought an 
>> accordion, so I've gotta be pretty strange.
>>
>> On 8/17/2015 00:42, Chris Belle via RWP wrote:
>>> Be aware that just getting a fast processor and drive and such will not
>>> necessarily make you a good daw.
>>>
>>> That is because with varying chipsets, and subsystems you might get 
>>> dpc latencies high enough that an ordinarily decent off the shelf 
>>> machine for ordinary tasks could end up being terrible for audio.
>>> Don't confuse dpc latency with latency of your audio interface, they 
>>> are two different things, but one surely affects the other.
>>>
>>> The only way to be sure you get a truly worthy machine for audio 
>>> production is to get a purpose built daw from
>>> a place that specializes in such, my go to guy for this is 
>>> studiocat.com
>>> Jim Roseberry, he's built machines for many of my students as well 
>>> as many of us on midimag,
>>> and he builds machines for the stars, and sons and daughters of the 
>>> stars,
>>> production groups and such, there are other places,
>>> of course, Sweetwater creation stations, and ADK,
>>> but I really like the personal service and quality and pricing I get 
>>> from Jim.
>>>
>>> If you don't want to go the purpose daw route, and
>>> try and coble together your own, then you have your work cut out for 
>>> you,
>>> some have gotten decent results from running a mac on the windows 
>>> side, but that is not a guaranteed good result, I've heard 
>>> everything from terrible to decent on that side, and you can't
>>> adjust a mac's BIOS eufi to turn off things like c states, and 
>>> processor throttling and virtualization,
>>> and such to get that dpc latency down,
>>> it's a generic one size fits all, and I know our friend Patrick has 
>>> done well with that, but my friend Keith has had terrible results 
>>> with that on an oder mac.
>>>
>>> All it takes is one bios revission, or one little thing different on 
>>> the chipset to screw things up, so yes, it's possible to roll your 
>>> own, but you take on all the responsibilities of it that way, and 
>>> even experienced pc builders don't know mostly how to set up a DAW 
>>> properly, these things are special.
>>> If you're not planning to run many real time plugs, and mostly do 
>>> straight audio recording,
>>> then you might get by with an off the shelf machine, and you might 
>>> get lucky and get an off the shelf laptop with low enough dpc to get 
>>> you by, but it's a crap shoot.
>>> I got a dell refurb from
>>> discountelectronics.com
>>> a nice i7 chip and business class notebook wich actually will run 
>>> sonar and reaper,
>>> reasonably but not up to what I consider good DAW standards, that 
>>> means I can load little projects on them, but as soon as I push it, 
>>> it doesn't like it.
>>> But my i5 machine I got from Jim will go like a bat out of hell with 
>>> loads of plugs and tracks, but you see even being a lesser 
>>> processor, because it was picked for parts and tuned for audio it 
>>> likes that sort of work and doesn't complain
>>> so you're even more likely to have issues with laptops because the 
>>> tolerances are closer, not as bad on modern laptops, but still,
>>> because of heat issues, and these things fight you every step o the 
>>> way they're designed for power saving and battery life conservation, 
>>> and such, and depending on what models you get,
>>> you may or may not be able to disable these things at the bios 
>>> level, so this is where your trusty daw vendor will help you out and 
>>> it doesn't really cost you a lot more.
>>> How much is your music worth, if you are really broke and have to 
>>> settle for a 200 dollar bargain machine from tiger,
>>> that's one thing, but if you are serious about your music and want 
>>> the best and you can swing it, go do yourself a big favor and go get 
>>> a real daw machine.
>>>
>>> If you want to work strictly with mac, then it's a cookie cutter
>>> they're already done the hardware and software matching, but with 
>>> windows, even mac immulation of windows, it really is
>>> best to get a true windows machine if you want the best performance.
>>>
>>> Just make sure what ever you get if you are going to do the off the 
>>> shelf and take your chances that you can return what ever you get.
>>>
>>> Wwe have another buddy who is running a sonar build on a mac 
>>> machine, but he can't run his interface down at lowest settings,
>>> but it's good enough for what he does for him.
>>>
>>> I personally like to run at lowest settings, because I can't stand 
>>> playing guitar with that little bit of latency, I want to run at 64 
>>> and 32 asio buffers,
>>> but just playing back samples and such you can get by with 96 or 128 
>>> or even 256
>>> and even worse for just mixing and mastering, so it's all down to 
>>> how much you can put up with and get by with for me since I'm doing 
>>> work for other people,
>>> I put up with off the shelf machines for years and made it work, but 
>>> when I finally went and bit thee bullet, it was like night and day 
>>> difference.
>>>
>>> Good luck,
>>> and sorry for the long rant, but this is one of the most important 
>>> things you will do for your studio,
>>> and I want to see people informed and make the right decission.
>>>
>>> It's frustrating enough with all the adaptive things we have to deal 
>>> with without having to deal with a dodgy machine as well, so if you 
>>> can, be good to your self, and eliminate that odious possibility.
>>>
>>> Just as a real world comparison, my refurb dell I was telling you 
>>> about get dpc latencies in around 100, but my machines from jim get 
>>> in the low double digits and single digits,
>>> around 17 to 10 to 7,
>>> generally anything below 30 is decent,
>>> for a daw, the lower the better, you can get by with dpc's
>>> around 50 to 80 to 100 but that's when you are likely to start 
>>> having problems, and if you are spiking in the high hundreds or 
>>> thousands, then forget it,
>>> you will have trouble doing any real time audio applications.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/16/2015 8:22 PM, Aaron via RWP wrote:
>>>> I am looking for a Windows computer to replace the one that I have. 
>>>> I at least want an Intel I five and eight gigs of RAM. What do you 
>>>> some of you guys use and would recommend? Just curious is a hard 
>>>> decision when needing to buy a new laptop.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Aaron
>>>>
>>>> blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your 
>>>> future. Every day we raise the expectations of blind people, 
>>>> because low expectations create obstacles between blind people and 
>>>> our dreams. You can have the life you want; blindness is not what 
>>>> holds you back.
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 16, 2015, at 6:38 PM, Jes via RWP <rwp at bluegrasspals.com 
>>>> <mailto:rwp at bluegrasspals.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Scott,
>>>>> I am basing my opinion on first-hand experience. I was able to get 
>>>>> up and running with reaper very quickly once I realized how the 
>>>>> program worked. With GarageBand, I found myself fooling around 
>>>>> using the VO keys and it just wasn't very efficient.
>>>>> Of course for all my audio stuff, I have been using windows for 
>>>>> years. I have used gold wave, sound forge and Reaper. When I 
>>>>> installed reaper for the first time on windows along with 
>>>>> Reaaccess, The fact that I could instantly get feedback when I 
>>>>> pressed keys, and didn't have to create my own keymap was really 
>>>>> nice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jes
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 16, 2015, at 5:31 PM, Scott Chesworth via RWP 
>>>>>> <rwp at bluegrasspals.com <mailto:rwp at bluegrasspals.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jes, are you basing those opinions on firsthand experience or 
>>>>>> hearsay?
>>>>>> Reason I ask is that - although it's not as far along as Reaper with
>>>>>> the various addons available for Windows yet - I'm not seeing the 
>>>>>> huge
>>>>>> gap between Reaper and Pro Tools you're describing with Vic's bear
>>>>>> bones accessibility solution. From my experience, I'd think most
>>>>>> people could get stuff done with a lot less button bashing and
>>>>>> frustration in Reaper on Mac now than in GarageBand for example, 
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> I found to be a sluggish, frustrating half-baked mess when using it
>>>>>> with VoiceOver. No experience of Amadeus Pro here, so can't pass
>>>>>> comment on that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kevin, how soon is this new computer being acquired? OSARA has plans
>>>>>> for better Mac support on the development timeline, but you're 
>>>>>> looking
>>>>>> at another 6 months or so before Jamie gets to that assuming
>>>>>> everything runs to schedule. For what it's worth, I'm someone who 
>>>>>> runs
>>>>>> Apple hardware, but VoiceOver as a screen reader means I find myself
>>>>>> in Windows 99% of the time unless I'm specifically using Pro Tools.
>>>>>> This didn't used to be the case, so it's not an unshiftable bias
>>>>>> against the screen reader, more that I don't dig the directions 
>>>>>> Apple
>>>>>> have gone in with it lately. Even on an I7 machine with 8GB of 
>>>>>> RAM and
>>>>>> a fast SSD, I find VO to be unresponsive as a screen reader 
>>>>>> nowadays.
>>>>>> I'm not saying don't go Mac because in some ways it opens up a 
>>>>>> can of
>>>>>> worms that you might find useful, especially given the quality of
>>>>>> instruments that come with MainStage for a MIDI guy like yourself,
>>>>>> just offering up a note of caution that if you like working fast, VO
>>>>>> might not be the screen reader for you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/16/15, Kevin Brown via RWP <rwp at bluegrasspals.com 
>>>>>>> <mailto:rwp at bluegrasspals.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hmmmmmm!,...Maybe I'll stick to the "PC"...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm kind of liking the functionality of "Reaper" so far...
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