[Rwp] A Mac?

[Chris Belle]

Try,

http://www.thesycon.de/eng/free_download.shtml

That's the one Jim uses.
And it's accessible.

On 8/17/2015 1:51 AM, John Schucker via RWP wrote:
> The next obvious question is, how do you find out what your latencies 
> are? I get that you can't offer a ton of build advice because you 
> maybe haven't done it and as you've said getting the right components 
> can be tricky. But particularly for new buyers, if you know the 
> latencies to look for and you might be returning a machine, I'd think 
> something to calculate those would be nice.
>
> I mean, let's go with something crazy, you get a tablet to do audio 
> work on. It would be a lot nicer to go "I'm going to run blah to 
> calculate DPC latencies and find out I need to take it back in a day", 
> as opposed to "well I was gonna test stuff on it and then I got busy 
> the next few days and then I did some midi which worked OK, and then I 
> got busy the next few days and by the time I found out it wasn't gonna 
> do audio, the return period was up".
>
> I'm not in the market for anything new right now, the new accordion 
> says money's been spent. But I've seen prices on some of the machines 
> you're talking about, and they can run a couple thousand. I can get a 
> pretty beefy off the shelf machine for half that, probably less. I'll 
> grant you, as you've said ideally we'd all get crazy audio 
> workstations, and use them only for audio and have a totally separate 
> machine for all of our internet and games and what have you.
>
> However,  as you've also pointed out, that ain't always the case. But 
> I'd think if you've got something to determine DPC latencies, and 
> perhaps some research on potential methods to lower them, you could 
> get some decent off the shelf machine and at least give it a solid 
> shot. I don't think you should pick the absolute cheapest new/used 
> thing unless you absolutely have to. But I'm also probably not getting 
> a several thousand dollar machine solely for audio work either, unless 
> I come into some serious money at some point. I doubt I'm alone. So I 
> for one would be curious if there's a way to determine my current 
> machine's latency. I'm probably not alone in that either, unless I am 
> of course. You never know. I just bought an accordion, so I've gotta 
> be pretty strange.
>
> On 8/17/2015 00:42, Chris Belle via RWP wrote:
>> Be aware that just getting a fast processor and drive and such will not
>> necessarily make you a good daw.
>>
>> That is because with varying chipsets, and subsystems you might get 
>> dpc latencies high enough that an ordinarily decent off the shelf 
>> machine for ordinary tasks could end up being terrible for audio.
>> Don't confuse dpc latency with latency of your audio interface, they 
>> are two different things, but one surely affects the other.
>>
>> The only way to be sure you get a truly worthy machine for audio 
>> production is to get a purpose built daw from
>> a place that specializes in such, my go to guy for this is studiocat.com
>> Jim Roseberry, he's built machines for many of my students as well as 
>> many of us on midimag,
>> and he builds machines for the stars, and sons and daughters of the 
>> stars,
>> production groups and such, there are other places,
>> of course, Sweetwater creation stations, and ADK,
>> but I really like the personal service and quality and pricing I get 
>> from Jim.
>>
>> If you don't want to go the purpose daw route, and
>> try and coble together your own, then you have your work cut out for 
>> you,
>> some have gotten decent results from running a mac on the windows 
>> side, but that is not a guaranteed good result, I've heard everything 
>> from terrible to decent on that side, and you can't
>> adjust a mac's BIOS eufi to turn off things like c states, and 
>> processor throttling and virtualization,
>> and such to get that dpc latency down,
>> it's a generic one size fits all, and I know our friend Patrick has 
>> done well with that, but my friend Keith has had terrible results 
>> with that on an oder mac.
>>
>> All it takes is one bios revission, or one little thing different on 
>> the chipset to screw things up, so yes, it's possible to roll your 
>> own, but you take on all the responsibilities of it that way, and 
>> even experienced pc builders don't know mostly how to set up a DAW 
>> properly, these things are special.
>> If you're not planning to run many real time plugs, and mostly do 
>> straight audio recording,
>> then you might get by with an off the shelf machine, and you might 
>> get lucky and get an off the shelf laptop with low enough dpc to get 
>> you by, but it's a crap shoot.
>> I got a dell refurb from
>> discountelectronics.com
>> a nice i7 chip and business class notebook wich actually will run 
>> sonar and reaper,
>> reasonably but not up to what I consider good DAW standards, that 
>> means I can load little projects on them, but as soon as I push it, 
>> it doesn't like it.
>> But my i5 machine I got from Jim will go like a bat out of hell with 
>> loads of plugs and tracks, but you see even being a lesser processor, 
>> because it was picked for parts and tuned for audio it likes that 
>> sort of work and doesn't complain
>> so you're even more likely to have issues with laptops because the 
>> tolerances are closer, not as bad on modern laptops, but still,
>> because of heat issues, and these things fight you every step o the 
>> way they're designed for power saving and battery life conservation, 
>> and such, and depending on what models you get,
>> you may or may not be able to disable these things at the bios level, 
>> so this is where your trusty daw vendor will help you out and it 
>> doesn't really cost you a lot more.
>> How much is your music worth, if you are really broke and have to 
>> settle for a 200 dollar bargain machine from tiger,
>> that's one thing, but if you are serious about your music and want 
>> the best and you can swing it, go do yourself a big favor and go get 
>> a real daw machine.
>>
>> If you want to work strictly with mac, then it's a cookie cutter
>> they're already done the hardware and software matching, but with 
>> windows, even mac immulation of windows, it really is
>> best to get a true windows machine if you want the best performance.
>>
>> Just make sure what ever you get if you are going to do the off the 
>> shelf and take your chances that you can return what ever you get.
>>
>> Wwe have another buddy who is running a sonar build on a mac machine, 
>> but he can't run his interface down at lowest settings,
>> but it's good enough for what he does for him.
>>
>> I personally like to run at lowest settings, because I can't stand 
>> playing guitar with that little bit of latency, I want to run at 64 
>> and 32 asio buffers,
>> but just playing back samples and such you can get by with 96 or 128 
>> or even 256
>> and even worse for just mixing and mastering, so it's all down to how 
>> much you can put up with and get by with for me since I'm doing work 
>> for other people,
>> I put up with off the shelf machines for years and made it work, but 
>> when I finally went and bit thee bullet, it was like night and day 
>> difference.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> and sorry for the long rant, but this is one of the most important 
>> things you will do for your studio,
>> and I want to see people informed and make the right decission.
>>
>> It's frustrating enough with all the adaptive things we have to deal 
>> with without having to deal with a dodgy machine as well, so if you 
>> can, be good to your self, and eliminate that odious possibility.
>>
>> Just as a real world comparison, my refurb dell I was telling you 
>> about get dpc latencies in around 100, but my machines from jim get 
>> in the low double digits and single digits,
>> around 17 to 10 to 7,
>> generally anything below 30 is decent,
>> for a daw, the lower the better, you can get by with dpc's
>> around 50 to 80 to 100 but that's when you are likely to start having 
>> problems, and if you are spiking in the high hundreds or thousands, 
>> then forget it,
>> you will have trouble doing any real time audio applications.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/16/2015 8:22 PM, Aaron via RWP wrote:
>>> I am looking for a Windows computer to replace the one that I have. 
>>> I at least want an Intel I five and eight gigs of RAM. What do you 
>>> some of you guys use and would recommend? Just curious is a hard 
>>> decision when needing to buy a new laptop.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Aaron
>>>
>>> blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your future. 
>>> Every day we raise the expectations of blind people, because low 
>>> expectations create obstacles between blind people and our dreams. 
>>> You can have the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
>>>
>>> On Aug 16, 2015, at 6:38 PM, Jes via RWP <rwp at bluegrasspals.com 
>>> <mailto:rwp at bluegrasspals.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott,
>>>> I am basing my opinion on first-hand experience. I was able to get 
>>>> up and running with reaper very quickly once I realized how the 
>>>> program worked. With GarageBand, I found myself fooling around 
>>>> using the VO keys and it just wasn't very efficient.
>>>> Of course for all my audio stuff, I have been using windows for 
>>>> years. I have used gold wave, sound forge and Reaper. When I 
>>>> installed reaper for the first time on windows along with 
>>>> Reaaccess, The fact that I could instantly get feedback when I 
>>>> pressed keys, and didn't have to create my own keymap was really nice.
>>>>
>>>> Jes
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 16, 2015, at 5:31 PM, Scott Chesworth via RWP 
>>>>> <rwp at bluegrasspals.com <mailto:rwp at bluegrasspals.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Jes, are you basing those opinions on firsthand experience or 
>>>>> hearsay?
>>>>> Reason I ask is that - although it's not as far along as Reaper with
>>>>> the various addons available for Windows yet - I'm not seeing the 
>>>>> huge
>>>>> gap between Reaper and Pro Tools you're describing with Vic's bear
>>>>> bones accessibility solution. From my experience, I'd think most
>>>>> people could get stuff done with a lot less button bashing and
>>>>> frustration in Reaper on Mac now than in GarageBand for example, 
>>>>> which
>>>>> I found to be a sluggish, frustrating half-baked mess when using it
>>>>> with VoiceOver. No experience of Amadeus Pro here, so can't pass
>>>>> comment on that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kevin, how soon is this new computer being acquired? OSARA has plans
>>>>> for better Mac support on the development timeline, but you're 
>>>>> looking
>>>>> at another 6 months or so before Jamie gets to that assuming
>>>>> everything runs to schedule. For what it's worth, I'm someone who 
>>>>> runs
>>>>> Apple hardware, but VoiceOver as a screen reader means I find myself
>>>>> in Windows 99% of the time unless I'm specifically using Pro Tools.
>>>>> This didn't used to be the case, so it's not an unshiftable bias
>>>>> against the screen reader, more that I don't dig the directions Apple
>>>>> have gone in with it lately. Even on an I7 machine with 8GB of RAM 
>>>>> and
>>>>> a fast SSD, I find VO to be unresponsive as a screen reader nowadays.
>>>>> I'm not saying don't go Mac because in some ways it opens up a can of
>>>>> worms that you might find useful, especially given the quality of
>>>>> instruments that come with MainStage for a MIDI guy like yourself,
>>>>> just offering up a note of caution that if you like working fast, VO
>>>>> might not be the screen reader for you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/16/15, Kevin Brown via RWP <rwp at bluegrasspals.com 
>>>>>> <mailto:rwp at bluegrasspals.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hmmmmmm!,...Maybe I'll stick to the "PC"...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm kind of liking the functionality of "Reaper" so far...
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