[RWP] Reaper vs. ProTools?

Chris Belle cb1963 at sbcglobal.net
Thu May 15 15:41:36 EDT 2014 

Don't forget some of the things that are broken are broken more for one 
screenreader than another.

In the masster bus, I can't remember exactly what now, but I was able to 
see some things with window-eyes I couldn't with nvda.

But wasn't there a problem with wineyes and 64 bit reaper
too?

So we have those variables to deal with.


On 5/15/2014 2:30 PM, Derek Lane wrote:
> Good idea, which leads me to another prospective.
> Lets answer the following before talking to the reaper/sws people
> 1.  Does more things work than are broken in the latest reaper?
> I'd say so.
> 2.  What are the things that no longer work?
> I know all of the menus accessible via the applications and 
> shift+applications key no longer work.  I'm sure there are other 
> things as well, but I can't think of them at the moment.  These menus 
> not working reliably is annoying for me, as some projects require lots 
> of routing.
>
> 3.  What changed between reaper 3.78 and 4.x which makes reaaccess no 
> longer function as it should?
> 4. Could a script/plugin/option in reapers preferences exists which 
> reverts that part of reaper to its behavior in 3.78?
>
> If we can figure the stuff out, we may have better luck getting help 
> from those who are willing, because no one has to do the work to 
> create what already exists.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex H." <linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com>
> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 2:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper vs. ProTools?
>
>
>> Right on Derek.
>>
>> What we really need is a way to collaborate and get a document drafted
>> with the technical info to then give the Reaper guys. "Hey dudes, can
>> you look into this stuff?" And another for SWS to see what they can
>> do. Tried to do an accessibility checklist for the Mac version of
>> Reaper, but never finished it. Mostly spend my time on Windows for
>> serious audio, but wanna see both improve (naturally).
>>
>> So who's gonna step up and help get this rolling? I can be part of it,
>> but I ain't doing this alone...there's more techy guys than me on this
>> list who could dig into reaScript, etc, who have more programming
>> knowledge than I, and so on. Less barking, more biting.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> On 5/15/14, Derek Lane <derek at pdaudio.net> wrote:
>>> I'm one of those people that, in certain areas, know enough to know 
>>> that
>>> they have very little clue as to how things actually work.
>>> However, I spoke to the developers of sws about a year ago and they 
>>> said
>>> they'd be more than willing to help with an accessible solution.
>>> The problem is that I didn't know enough at the time to describe
>>> everything reaaccess did, and what we needed.
>>> If you or someone on this list had the time to open a dialog with the
>>> sws community, we may find that 90% of the work has already been done.
>>> For example, reaconsole, part of the SWS add-on, allows you to type
>>> various commands to do things like set tracks to record from different
>>> inputs, select, solo, and mute specific tracks, etc.
>>> What it doesn't allow is for one to query the console to determine the
>>> existing settings.
>>> I know that SWS can get information from reaper, or it wouldn't be able
>>> to perform some of its other functions, which was a concern I had
>>> initially.
>>> If it wern't possible to get information from reaper, then access would
>>> be very limited, but as I said, sws and even reaaccess are
>>> demonstrations that we can read and write from/too reaper and its 
>>> settings.
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>>>    On 5/14/2014 11:57 PM, Victor Tsaran wrote:
>>>> Hey Derek!
>>>> It is true that Reaper's API is very, very good. The issue is that 
>>>> there
>>>> isn't much help to go round and, to my taste, it's a bit messy too. 
>>>> Once
>>>> you have gone through the meriads of functions available to you as a
>>>> developer, only then you ralize the power of Reaper.
>>>>
>>>> Great DAW though, I agree!
>>>>
>>>> Sent from a Mobile device
>>>>
>>>>> On May 14, 2014, at 11:54 AM, Derek Lane <derek at pdaudio.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing about reaaccess is that it should be easier now, more than
>>>>> ever, to rebuild.
>>>>> The latest versions of reaper have added all kinds of neat 
>>>>> toys/tools for
>>>>> those who play with API's and there are several universal speech 
>>>>> API's
>>>>> that talk to all of the major screen readers.
>>>>> So it stands to reason that one could, given the skills, write 
>>>>> something
>>>>> that queries reaper for specific information, and actions to modify
>>>>> aspects of the current project/reapers settings in some cases.
>>>>> Build a few dialog boxes, and there you go.
>>>>> I say this as if its as easy as making an API sandwitch, but I know
>>>>> better.
>>>>> Obvious something like SWS shows the power of the reaper API, but 
>>>>> it has
>>>>> a development team, and lots of community support which keeps it 
>>>>> alive.
>>>>> If someone on this list knows enough about programming to 
>>>>> articulate what
>>>>> we need, chances are that someone exists who would be willing to 
>>>>> give it
>>>>> a try.
>>>>> In this message, said person may be asked to specify all actions 
>>>>> which
>>>>> reaaccess provides, but  perhaps decompiling the reaaccess dll 
>>>>> file would
>>>>> help.
>>>>> I know that a decompiler will render code that can be compiled again,
>>>>> and not that which was initially written, but who knows... I don't.
>>>>>> On 5/14/2014 1:36 AM, Chris Belle wrote:
>>>>>> Am very aware of the good work you and Patrick do for those guys.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And that goes right in line with my comments, it's mostly audio
>>>>>> editing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reaper has that covered very well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But not so well atleast with my take, on midi, and automation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Too many holes in the puzzle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But that's the difference between a 50 dollar daw, and a hundreds of
>>>>>> dollars one with lots of content, and
>>>>>> synths and mastering fx, and so on and so forth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like comparing a motorcycle to a full blown silver eagle bus, 
>>>>>> both will
>>>>>> get you there, and maybe the motorcycle can go places the bus 
>>>>>> can't but
>>>>>> the bus can carry everything including the library, the picnic 
>>>>>> basket,
>>>>>> and all the power tools included 'grin'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still I wish sonar edited audio like reaper did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why can't we have it all in one place?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/13/2014 10:25 PM, Derek Lane wrote:
>>>>>>> If you want to see work with reaper, see most of the content 
>>>>>>> provided
>>>>>>> by the serotalk podcast network.
>>>>>>> Patrick Perdue and I use reaper as one of the primary tools for 
>>>>>>> editing
>>>>>>> and production, as each person on the various podcasts are on 
>>>>>>> separate
>>>>>>> tracks. This lets us sort individual audio anomalies in the mix, 
>>>>>>> rather
>>>>>>> than try to rescue a bad mixdown.
>>>>>>> I know a few people who have done some music in reaper as well, but
>>>>>>> sadly most of them haven't made there work widely available.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Belle"
>>>>>>> <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 9:51 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper vs. ProTools?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dancing dots still sells
>>>>>>>> sonar 8.5 if you want to go the official route.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We face this sort of situation on all fronts, using older versions
>>>>>>>> sometimes for accessibility, and the tools for sonar have been 
>>>>>>>> updated
>>>>>>>> way more recently than our poor little abandonware reaccess has.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It depends on what you want to do though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lots of protools users are using older versions too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, each solution has it's pros and cons, just saying the path
>>>>>>>> most well traveled and maybe the easiest with the most real 
>>>>>>>> help and
>>>>>>>> documentation and all the stuff a beginner needs is definitely 
>>>>>>>> sonar,
>>>>>>>> never mind wha the fan boys say.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I haven't used protools yet, but I keep my ear to the ground, 
>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>> just haven't seen the work come out of that corner yet, same with
>>>>>>>> reaper, other than a few exceptions, most are doing audio editing,
>>>>>>>> anyway, i hope reaper really takes off one day, and someone 
>>>>>>>> picks up
>>>>>>>> where the Russian dude let of, but you know how it goes, it's only
>>>>>>>> time and money.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Will get with you privately and explain more.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/2014 6:42 PM, John Chilelli wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  From what I have heard and read, I would have to agree with you
>>>>>>>>> concerning Sonar.  But the problem with Sonar is what you have 
>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>> here.  That is, that the bestg accessible version of Sonar is 
>>>>>>>>> v8.5
>>>>>>>>> and where does one get hold of that version? As for my personal
>>>>>>>>> needs, Reaper would do just fine, but for a newbie like me, 
>>>>>>>>> it's like
>>>>>>>>> stairing up at Mt. Everest with only summer jogging gear to work
>>>>>>>>> with.  I got a hold of Sonar v5 recently for the asking just 
>>>>>>>>> to look
>>>>>>>>> at it, but didn't know where to begin with it using 
>>>>>>>>> Window-Eyes 8.4.
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/12/2014 4:30 PM, Chris Belle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Reaper has a lot of potential but sort of enjoys a similar 
>>>>>>>>>> status in
>>>>>>>>>> the recording world that linux does to windows and mac, the low
>>>>>>>>>> priced don't need much to play, can do a lot of everyone has 
>>>>>>>>>> to roll
>>>>>>>>>> their own kind of thing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pt has gotten better, but most blind folks who are doing the 
>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>> work I think are still using sonar even though most of us are 
>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>> an older version because there's been the most development with
>>>>>>>>>> that,
>>>>>>>>>> you have caketalking plus jsonar, plus nvda and window-eyes both
>>>>>>>>>> have rudimentary access.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And it's a full blown daw, pt and sonar both come with lots 
>>>>>>>>>> of soft
>>>>>>>>>> synths and loop libraries, and mastering tools, reaper has the
>>>>>>>>>> basics but you have to buy everything third party and then make
>>>>>>>>>> access for it, most of the devs who are doing stuff for us 
>>>>>>>>>> are doing
>>>>>>>>>> it for sonar for the obvious reasons.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I do a lot with midi, and
>>>>>>>>>> our buddy Roy says he's groovy with midi and reaper, but most 
>>>>>>>>>> of us
>>>>>>>>>> using reaper are doing audio editing and item based 
>>>>>>>>>> automation by
>>>>>>>>>> splitting clips and such,
>>>>>>>>>> I find sonar's midi implementation second to none, bu then it
>>>>>>>>>> started off as a midi sequencer anyway.
>>>>>>>>>> Midi has just been iimproved in pt, don't know how much, i 
>>>>>>>>>> don't own
>>>>>>>>>> a mac as of yet,
>>>>>>>>>> but I have been doing professional work for years with sonar and
>>>>>>>>>> that is the easiest path if you are beginning.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I wish I could melt reaper and sonar together because I 
>>>>>>>>>> really like
>>>>>>>>>> the way reaper cross fades audio, some audio operations with 
>>>>>>>>>> sonar
>>>>>>>>>> are very tedious, but doing things like making tempo maps and 
>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>> are really nice with sonar, and the time and pitch stretching
>>>>>>>>>> algorithms in sonar, radius is vastly superior to reaper or
>>>>>>>>>> protools
>>>>>>>>>> elastique.
>>>>>>>>>> But it takes more time to process.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> so it's all down to how you like to work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are a couple of people here who have really customized 
>>>>>>>>>> reaper
>>>>>>>>>> with the extra extensions who are getting the most out of it, 
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> again, it's like the linux thing, it depends on how much time 
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> have, and how deeply you want to dive, reaccess is dead,
>>>>>>>>>> it abandon ware, and any new reaper developoment will have to 
>>>>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>>>>> from elsewhere.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes a person has to make their own way, for instance, a 
>>>>>>>>>> buddy
>>>>>>>>>> of mine paid a programmer to make cubass work for him.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I paid the dev of nvda to make sonar work a bit better for me
>>>>>>>>>> because I don't like using jaws all the time, and so on and so
>>>>>>>>>> forth.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Protools may not enjoy quite the monopoly it once did in the 
>>>>>>>>>> world,
>>>>>>>>>> but I hardly think reaper is going to replace it any time 
>>>>>>>>>> soon, it's
>>>>>>>>>> still the defacto standard in many places.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Reaper is like the poor kid on the block but with a huge 
>>>>>>>>>> potential
>>>>>>>>>> that hasn't been realized yet, atleast in our corner, but it 
>>>>>>>>>> has a
>>>>>>>>>> great programming api and someone with the skill and time 
>>>>>>>>>> could make
>>>>>>>>>> it sing and dance for us.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> but there again is the rub, jaws scripting language sucks 
>>>>>>>>>> compared
>>>>>>>>>> to a real programming language, but because it's been so well
>>>>>>>>>> develooped
>>>>>>>>>> we enjoy much more functionallity with jaws that with the better
>>>>>>>>>> technologies which haven't been developed yet from say nvda 
>>>>>>>>>> ppython
>>>>>>>>>> or window-eyes whicfh can use any programming language.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> so there you have it, pick your poison, or pick several of 
>>>>>>>>>> them and
>>>>>>>>>> milk them for all they're worth.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/12/2014 1:26 PM, Jes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, guys, I'm probably going to start a big controversy right
>>>>>>>>>>> about now, and you'll forgive me, but I have to know this.
>>>>>>>>>>> Besides the fact that Reaper on the Mac is not accessible, and
>>>>>>>>>>> proTools is, What are the advantages of Reaper over 
>>>>>>>>>>> ProTools? I am
>>>>>>>>>>> really getting interested in going into the music business for
>>>>>>>>>>> real, not just as a hobby, and I'm just wondering the pros 
>>>>>>>>>>> and cons
>>>>>>>>>>> of each environment. Is Reaper going to kill ProTools one 
>>>>>>>>>>> day and
>>>>>>>>>>> become the industry leader?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have a question about the reaaccess.com website. If 
>>>>>>>>>>> Ivan
>>>>>>>>>>> isn't around anymore, how is the sight still running? and 
>>>>>>>>>>> how much
>>>>>>>>>>> longer might it be around? Is this list run off of freelists or
>>>>>>>>>>> something like that?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> RWP mailing list
>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RWP mailing list
>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RWP mailing list
> RWP at reaaccess.com
> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>

More information about the Rwp mailing list