[RWP] getting a mac for reaper what's the deal??

[Keith Hinton]

I can confirm a couple of things here, sorry for replying late to this
thread, but hear you go.
I have a 2011 MacBook Pro, Intel Core I7 (duel-core) two logical
cores, with two other cores being done by Hyper threading, so I don't
actually have a quad core CPU, running at 2.7GHZ.
Now, for a general Windows workstation machine, Apple's machines will
run wonderfully if your intending to use Windows for general audio
stuff.
If your just using standard audio caching to disk programs like
GoldWave, etc, you'll be perfectly fine, since DPC latency does not
come in to play there.
However, Chris is sadly correct about VSTS, software synthesizers,
etc, and you'll have horrible impossible to tweek high DPC in the
Windows kernel, since you don't have a BIOS interface on the Mac, and
it's not exactly running the latest UEFI either.

It runs it's own modified UEFI spessification that isn't exactly in
line with Intel either.

Even though I have 16GB of RAM on this machine, it just doesn't do
VSTS well in Windows. Please see above for more details.

I actually was recently forced to install Windows back on to the Mac
using the BootCamp software, due to the other Windows box I have not
working well, and I'm needing to use Windows far more so because I'm
now looking for employment and I can use Microsoft Word far better
than I can Pages, etc.
I'm not knocking the Macintosh for experimenting with recording in OS X.
If it wasn't for how the Apple kernel does stuff, I wouldn't have been
able to record some songs with zero latency out of the Mac's onboard
sound card, since I still do not have a good interface.
But to as how accessible you'll find Reaper, etc, on the Mac?
Don't
 expect that it's going to be 100 percent perfect by any means.
I finally had to take a break from doing MIDI based recording for the
time being recently due to a number of very recent challenges inside
of Logic Pro X/GarageBand ten plus the fact that GarageBand 6 is now
not maintained software, while I work with the Worship band I'm
playing with, and it seemed like a good time to put my Mac back in to
Windows service.
I haven't had time to buy a standard desktop somewhere (and even if I
did), I'd probably want the workstation customized and that will cost
me loads of money that I don't have at this time, so my Mac will have
to do, and again, for a standard workstation machine, where you don't
need VSTS and such, Windows on a Mac works well.
However, that being said, I don't suggest that you virtualize Windows in a VM.
Not if your looking for native mode performance. You'll just not get
it at all when sharing resources between OS X and Windows running at
the same time.
Plus, remember that VCPUs are slow.
You'll get latency due to how VMware Fusion (the most accessible VM
solution at the moment) processes data between the guest sound card,
and then buffers that stream back to the host sound card.
So screen reader feedback won't be instant.
Also, while you can choose a SoundBlaster sound card, and adjust it's
playback buffer to about 30MS of latency, which will make your screen
reader then work okay in the .VMX file, using the details found here:
http://blog.bryansmart.com/2012/02/16/low-latency-sound-for-vmware/
please don't expect it to work as well as putting Windows directly on
to the Mac's drive so that Windows then gets full control of all
system resources. (Native mode) is what the BootCamp software allows
you to do.
Their are two BootCamp tools.
One is the Utility in OS X, the other is the BootCamp setup program
that installs all the drivers that you download and put on to a USB
stick from the Mac side that then allows the Apple hardware to work in
Windows. You'll find a BootCamp folder on the drive. In that folder,
you'll find a setup.exe program. Run that, and although you'll nave no
speech at the end of the Windows install, you can do the following set
of keystrokes once you've launched the setup program:
Alt N activates the next button.
Alt A accepts the license agreement checkbox.
Alt N activates the next button.
Alt T activates the tipical button, and alt I activates the install button.
It will take more than two minutes to install everything, but
ultimately, you should hear the sound of USB devices being connected.
After a while, just press enter.
I'd say give  the entire process about 10 minutes or so.
Now, if you incorporate all of this in to an accessible Winstaller
image, then you'll be just fine.
But out of the box, if you do a standard Windows installation, even an
autounattended one, you won't have a single hardware device working
very well save part of the Mac keyboard.
Also, Winstaller is the project I know fors ure, that includes the
BootCamp drivers as part of the WinStaller process once you've made an
image.
That doesn't include them for your Winodws installation image if you
wish to make a Mac based BootCamp drivers image, it would just let the
installation talk up to a point most likely.
You still have to add your drivers to the Windows image.
I don't know if Brian Smart's WinPE environment can talk on a Mac.
Sorry if any of this is off topic, I'm just trying to help here.
These are my experiences from doing lots of Windows installations on
this MacBookPro 8,1.
I hope this helps you if you do get a Macintosh, and want to use it as
a Windows workstation, you are certainly welcome to email me off-list
if you'd like to discuss this more.
Blessings,
Keith

On 5/17/14, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Yup, he is very much able to do stuff like that.
>
> But be careful when you go the overclock route, us being blind, we can't
> change stuf after getting our machines back, without sighted help and
> for example I had a blazingly fast 4.5 ghz machine back here but there
> was some stability issues during boot-up, not once the machine was
> going, overclocking isn't an exact science and is diferent for each mobo
> and a tenth of a volt can make all the difference.
>
> so after experiencing some of those issues with my interfaces, though i
> got scarey performance levels,
> I could run my interface at 32 asio samples at 24/96 which your not
> supposed to be able to do with the mackie, and I still can, we turned
> off overclocking.
>
> Now no booting glitches, and I'm running at 3.9,
> this is with the 3770 processor.
>
> But the difference in overclocking and not didn't make much different if
> at all with dpc latencies.
>
> The big bitch I have about this motherboard is the bios reset is right
> there in the back with all your ports, just waiting to be accidentally
> pushed and resetting your bios.
>
> After getting my machine nicely tweaked back from Jim, my dumb ass hit
> the button and hey, I have factory settings again, with my onboard audio
> on, and hpet on, and so my nice dpc latency is now up about 40 to 70.
>
> but it's still fast enough I haven't bothered to send it back again.
>
> I'll just live with it till I get some sighted help over here that I'd
> trust going in the bios with.
>
> Or perhaps I could get my wife's ipad and get on skype and let jim guide
> me through the bios, we actually did this once with my just pressing
> keys and following along, but it'd be better to have an eyeball so
> nothing get's messed up.
>
>
> On 5/16/2014 7:01 AM, Patrick Perdue wrote:
>> Does Jim do stuff with memory voltage, timing and such? I have a DAW
>> that uses a Gigabite motherboard with not so awesome DPC latency,
>> though it generally runs OK for the projects I do. Looked around on
>> some forums where people with my board were able to get values in the
>> low single digits (2/5) under Windows 7, so was wondering if there is
>> something to that.
>> I turned of HPET, which helped slightly.
>>
>> On 5/15/2014 3:38 PM, Chris Belle wrote:
>>> Well, problem is with many of these new motherboards, things like
>>> defeating the hpet and such are no longer an option.
>>>
>>> And mac ofcourse uses a custom uefi and you can't tweak it.
>>>
>>> Well, if you had the right tools, you cold tweak anything, but the
>>> average person can't tweak it.
>>>
>>> 100 is right a the break point, I had a student who got a machine from
>>> Jim, but Jim isn't always thke fastest because he's a one horse
>>> operation, and this cat got impatient and sent his machine to someone
>>> else to fix.
>>>
>>> Well it dcame back, and the machine that used to run at 30 or less with
>>> dpc ran at 100 and all his sonar projects wouldn't run anymore unless he
>>> froze tracks and such.
>>>
>>> so yes, you can get by with middling dpc latencies, but you will be
>>> bothered with resource management much more than if your machine ran at
>>> 30 or lower.
>>>
>>> The motheboards that Jim uses allow for some tweaking, in respect to
>>> Jim, I won't give out a parts list, but I'm sure if you went and talked
>>> to him, he's very forth comming, and especially if you buy stuff from
>>> him, he isn't so close and precious like some of these daw makers are.
>>>
>>> Like that guy over at adk,
>>> Scot what ever his name is, him and me went round and round because they
>>> never would tell me what parts I was getting when I was going to buy a
>>> machine from dancing dots, I still bought ct from them but went to Jim
>>> for my hardware.
>>>
>>> I think it's a customer's right to know what your getting, and there's a
>>> certain amount of trust implied and a relationship when you work with
>>> someone like that.
>>>
>>> JIm always tells me anything I want to know, and though he states 80
>>> dollars for consulting fees, he gives away much more knowledge than most
>>> of these guys ever do and doesn't charge exra for overclocking and such,
>>> and all the little things and doesn't put a 10 percent charge on his
>>> hardware, when you get from him you just pay a straight out fee
>>> for his time, I priced it out and it works out to about 4 or 5 hours of
>>> time, but he often works longer on it, but he does the burn in test, and
>>> anything you want as a courtesy,
>>> you just can't beat that.
>>>
>>> I've bought about 6 machines from him now and all my students are
>>> getting from him, but don't get in a hurry sometimes it takes him a
>>> month or so to get caught uup.
>>>
>>> but this cat sells machines to everybody, people like Harry Potter's
>>> crew, and bb king's daughter, and you just wouldn't believe who.
>>>
>>> And he's not biassed either, the man has mac products, and he's used amd
>>> processors when they were better way back,
>>> my one and only gripe about his builds is that we difer just a little
>>> bit in our ideas about burners.
>>>
>>> I tend to like archival grade burners and he thinks off the shelf models
>>> are ok, which for the most part they are, but I have older clients who
>>> still like cds, and some of them have older cd players, some vintage
>>> models from the land of audiophyle gear,
>>> which likes cds burned slow and the latest offerings from lg and samsung
>>> don't go down below 16 or 24, but the sony's and some of the pioneer
>>> bluray burners and such will go down to 8 and 4x, which makes a big
>>> difference.
>>>
>>> Also I use theese military grade stone disc m disc which are a
>>> non-organic non dyte rock llike substance for archival purposes, and
>>> these special sony burners, which are needed to burn them, and he can
>>> get those, but i like to work with duplication specialty folks for that
>>> kind of thing.
>>>
>>> But that's a very small part of the deal, and he knows about all of it,
>>> I'm just a bit of a hardware snob when it comes to burners.
>>>
>>> for mos folks it wouldn't matter a hill of beans.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/15/2014 2:18 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
>>>> Yup, no doubt that the knowledge that those chaps designing purpose
>>>> built DAWs have wracked up is valuable man. I haven't owned a purpose
>>>> built and used that day in day out yet, but I've tracked in studios
>>>> running machines that were purpose built from two different venders
>>>> and they were both solid as a rock. In this case though, where build
>>>> quality was the first thing that sprung to mind, you'll probably pick
>>>> up on why I recommended what I recommended from your time tutoring.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, I've been keeping an eye on the DPC latency of that Boot Camped
>>>> Macbook Pro I posted about a few days ago using the tool you
>>>> recommended. Seems to be running somewhere around 80 to 100. Could be
>>>> worse, but it could be better too. Haven't found time to read up on it
>>>> and see if there's anything I can tweak to get that lower yet, so if
>>>> you know of a good starting place, feel free to lay it on me.
>>>>
>>>> On 5/15/14, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> Scot, you can read a lot about dpc latencies on the net, a great
>>>>> machine
>>>>> with lots of power will be a dog with a daw if processes are demanding
>>>>> too much time in the kernel, and a lesser well tuned machine with the
>>>>> right parts and software will run circles around this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't mean to sound like a know it all, but I've been doing this
>>>>> lots of
>>>>> years, and been there and done that, and went through the torture with
>>>>> my students.
>>>>>
>>>>> That high dpc latency is what kills more windows machines for daw
>>>>> work.
>>>>>
>>>>> YOu want 30 m us or less Jim's machines get in the single digits or
>>>>> lower double digits, your usual windows machine is usually about
>>>>> 250 or
>>>>> 300, you can do things on some motherboards like turn of high
>>>>> precission
>>>>> event timer and get lower dpc, but it's much more than that.
>>>>>
>>>>> these daw vendors know what to tweak and they keep up with all the
>>>>> motherboard revissions, and it's something even experienced pc
>>>>> builders
>>>>> don't often know about.
>>>>>
>>>>> I went through it with a custom shop,
>>>>> several times, them when I got my first purpose built daw, which
>>>>> didn't
>>>>> cost really anymore than the shop machine it was like going from a
>>>>> buggy
>>>>> airplane that sort of work to a rocket ship which could go off planet
>>>>> without getting out of 2nd gear.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did 100 plus tracks in xp without having to freeze tracks, it
>>>>> made me
>>>>> smile when these guys over on hrs were talking about 30 tracks being a
>>>>> heavy load for their imacs,
>>>>>
>>>>> windows can be a real piece of crap, but with the right stuff and
>>>>> properly configured it's obscenely powerful.
>>>>> that's the beauty and the other side of windows people don't realize,
>>>>> our hardware choices allow us to pick beter not just bargain, and
>>>>> the os
>>>>> allows to tweak in ways the mac can't easily be done.
>>>>>
>>>>> But with all that, the mac still has many things to drool over, if we
>>>>> weren't blind and didn't have to take thing on an accessibility and
>>>>> useability first option, the world would be our oister.
>>>>>
>>>>> but that's just the way it is out west.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/15/2014 12:18 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
>>>>>> Ah, gotcha. Used to be the case, but not so much nowadays is the
>>>>>> answer to
>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a pretty powerful machine you're running there already, so I
>>>>>> guess the first thing to do is ask what isn't working out with the
>>>>>> current setup?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/15/14, trahern culver <sound.warrior20 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I just thought the hardware would be better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does any one have recommendations for good laptops to run reaper on
>>>>>>> kind
>>>>>>> regards trey.
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-- 
Sincerely,

Keith
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