[RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
Jim Snowbarger
Snowman at SnowmanRadio.com
Sun Sep 15 22:07:57 EDT 2013
Just curious about this. It seems like a cross fade time of 0, done at a
zero crossing would be the best possible. Has anybody tried that?
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Belle
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
Yeh, you can.
Still not as smooth as automation even with snapshot automation, but
better when cross-fades are eliminated.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Snowbarger
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
Right. It might be that you are juhst earing the abrupt change on gain.
Any time the gain changes abruptly, you'll hear that as a click, or a pulse.
But, isn't there across fade time that you can specify when going between
items? I'm sure their is. That should solve those issues.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Belle
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
Well, for some reason even though reaper does a nice job of playing
back,
split items especially if you use the z to get 0 crossings, it still
sounds split in some cases, if you push amplitude changes too far, where as
automation doesn't.
But for most practical purposes, it amounts to the same thing and
doesn't matter.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Snowbarger
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
My guess is that, when you split an audio item, nothing actually
happens to the signal. An item is just a set of control parameters, And,
if two adjacent items refer to adjacent parts of the audio file, I but
there isn't even any cross fading going on. It's like me telling you to
count from 1 to 3, and then count from 4 to 10. I wont' hear you jump from
3 to 4. Your brain will concatenate automatically, and you'll count from 1
to 10, and I'll believe you.
The only down side is the need to press control+right Arrow more
times to get anywhere. But, hey.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Belle
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
Well, at least with item based editing in reaper, you don't mess
up anything.
It bothers me that we have to split audio to do things, even
though it works, and reaper's crossfades are very smooth, it's still
technically not cool to have to tear apart your audio just to do a little
automation.
Or get around, in other words, to my engineer's head it's better
to bend it than break it, even if you can fix it prety good.
Just in midi, this concept will work better, because it won't be
necessary to cross-fade broken audio events.
It's just a matter of grouping then more than any physical changes
to the actual data.
Item based midi editing, ok then , this will help, the other shoe
drops 'grin'.
----- Original Message -----
From: David P Shortland
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
Hi & Greetings from Down Under...
Not as far as I have been abel to discover....
It always seems to start at the beginning of the Event List...
You can use Page Up & Page Down keys to jump 7 events at a
time...
However, the work around that I do for this one is if I need to
edit something that is say 16 bars into a Item.... I just do a split just
before the section I wish to edit and Voila when the new Item is opened you
are right there...
The more I use REAPER ... the more I am getting to know how this
Item based Editing worx...
...and liking it...
It does not matter to me whether a Trak has One Item, several
items or several thousand items,... at any given time you can Glue all the
Items together and each part retains what you have edited and you can start
again...
Also just as a quick mention, which some of us may need to get
our heads around, is the concept of not having a dedicated SubGroup area....
the flexibility that REAPER allows by being able to put anything anywhere
and being able to route anything to anywhere is simply in a word ... NICE!!!
Anyway... on with the Editing...
Kind regards
David P Shortland
DragonScore Productions
From: Chris Belle
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:17 AM
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
Hey, I have done that but is there an easy way to move between
midi events?
I mean you can move along the time line, but in sonar it jumps
through all the extra time and immediately goes to the next midi event.
Or do you have to go to the exact place on the time like for
each midi event?
That was one thing killing me.
----- Original Message -----
From: David P Shortland
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
Hi & Greetings again from Down Under
Again, just a little addendum to Indy's post...
Once you have selected the MIDI Item you wish to Edit
Control plus Alt plus E opens the MIDI Editor...
You only need to do this once but you need to go to the
Options Menu (I
think) or it might be the View Menu...(apologies not sure
which)
Select Event List...
You can scroll up and down the Event List with the cursor
keys
When you want to Edit an Event Focus on it and press Control
plus F2
This Opens the Event Item Dialog and yu can TAB around and
change whatever
you wish...
No need to go to the Apply or OK buttons just hit Enter when
you have
finished your Edit...
Kind regards
David P Shortland
DragonScore Productions
-----Original Message-----
From: Indigo
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 8:52 PM
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
I used those ancient midi sequencers in dos or on the Atari
ST; , like
Voyettra Gold, Doctor T's Keyboard Midi Sequencer, all totally
accessible, just punching in numbers, then I did midi from
hardware
sequencers, from Yamaha and the MMT8; then I edited midi from
Sonar
versions 4, 6, 7 and 8.5.3, and to me all editing at the event
level is
the most tedious, most boring thing I could imagine.
I'd rather play in a passage a dozen times until I get it just
right
than chase down a single midi event and type in number values.
But, for those who don't mind, I think Reaper's layout for
getting at
notes and every single note event possible at tab and arrow
keys
couldn't be more ideal.
How could it be easier than having everything neately labeled
and laid
out at the taband arrow keys; where you can arrow to other
note values,
for instance, or type in different numbers for velocity, note
length,
pitch, program number, yada yada yada?
One thing to note is that; when finished with editing; you
need to tab
to apply, and then hit enter; but there can be another step
that might
or might not be required.
At certain places, you might need to find an OK button that
needs to be
clicked; after pressing enter on Apply takes you back to the
track view;
so look out for that one.
If anyone is not hearing their changes of values being applied
to their
music, go to your number pad and use your PC cursor slash
mouse pointer
slash object navigation to find that OK button, then left
click it.
I'll go search my collection and repost David Shortland's
method of
reaching the midi editor.
By the way, since it's a different midi editor than the inline
editor
that Ivan's shortcut reached, maybe reaAccess is not doing
anything to
assist with access of David's midi editor, it's just
screenreader
friendly because Reaper is written that way, using Microsoft
standard
menus and controls.
Indi
On 9/11/2013 4:51 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
> I'm really not a MIDI type, but sure, a repost of David's
steps is
> bound to help someone.
>
> Yeah, of course MIDI is MIDI is MIDI from DAW to DAW, but
I'd wager
> there would be neat little tips and tricks people use to
speed up
> editing which are specific to each one. Sometimes, just
watching
> someone else who's got a workflow down smashing through a
task can be
> quite inspiring.
>
> Scott
>
>
> On 9/11/13, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>> I'll dig out and post the guide to bringing up the midi
editor, David
>> Shortland style, which is step-by-step to get inside the
midi editor,
>> right down to the event list for each note of your music
along the
>> timeline.
>> Anyone who has the least experience with editing midi
events in every
>> sequencer or daw ever made should know that midi is midi;
and it isn't
>> different in a different daw.
>> Each event is clearly labeled in Reaper, in plain English,
and if you
>> want to shorten or lengthen a note length, or move the note
up or down a
>> list of chromatic notes, or shift it to another octave, or
alter its
>> velocity number, or move the note's position on the
timeline, or a
>> thousand other editing details; duh, what's so hard about
that to figure
>> out?
>> So, it's laid out differently from Voyettra Gold, or Sonar,
or ProTools,
>> don't we all expect that?
>> It's good for the health of our brain cells to exercise
them, otherwise
>> we get to be an old dog that can't learn new tricks.
>> When all note events are clearly labeled, all laid out very
conveniently
>> at the tab keys, with edit fields at the arrow keys, what
more could
>> anyone ever hope for in access from a screenreader?
>> Indi
>>
>>
>> On 9/10/2013 8:15 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
>>> I've dropped Roy a line to see whether he'd have time to
share some
>>> wisdom. Just hit on the idea of spending a bit of time
hanging out
>>> with each of the people on here that are using Reaper to
do cool
>>> stuff, whatever their stuff may be. I'd interview them and
record a
>>> bit of them in action for an hour at most, then handle all
the boring
>>> editing uploading headache stuff so they don't have too.
Seems like if
>>> enough people are keen to be featured it'd make a neat
little podcast
>>> series. I could justify putting the time into it seeing as
I'd no
>>> doubt learn a bunch of stuff along the way.
>>>
>>> Let's see what happens. First time I've been excited about
Reaper in a
>>> while, so I hope the response from Roy is positive so I
can strike
>>> while the iron is hot here.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 9/11/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> Roy seems to have a leg up on some of the things we
don't, bet he'd
>>>> help
>>>> out
>>>> if we approached him with a few clams.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Goldfinga Productions
>>>> To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 5:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from
New User
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ah, well that is a hole new animal… I can do some of
it, but I
>>>> would
>>>> like
>>>> to better edit stuff. Is there a person doing this
already? Are they
>>>> giving
>>>> lessons? lol
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 10, 2013, at 5:16 PM, "Chris Belle"
<cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I mean doing detailed editing and such.
>>>> >
>>>> > Are you down with that, I can load up and play
midi and such,
>>>> but
>>>> detailed editing and nudging notes and doing transforms
or search and
>>>> replace like the interpolate dialogue in sonar, that sort
of stuff.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: Goldfinga Productions
>>>> > To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 3:44 PM
>>>> > Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from
New User
>>>> >
>>>> > I use midi all the time with reaper…
>>>> > That's why I have been all over poise, that's one
less piece of
>>>> hardware
>>>> that I have to hook up to the mixer. Now I can leave my
npc at the
>>>> church.
>>>> lol.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sep 10, 2013, at 4:41 PM, "Chris Belle"
<cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > yeh, reaper
>>>> > > isn't where sonar is but definitely useable,
>>>> > > especially with straight audio.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > We're all gonna have to flip Roy a few sheckles
and get him to
>>>> show us
>>>> how he does midi with reaper,
>>>> > > I just ain't figured it out yet.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I mean I can do basics load a osft synth and hit
the midi
>>>> editor,
>>>> > > and see some events and such, but it ain't
anything like sonar
>>>> and
>>>> there are no docs,
>>>> > >
>>>> > > We desperately need some serious docs shoing how
to do
>>>> everything.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > > From: Goldfinga Productions
>>>> > > To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 3:34 PM
>>>> > > Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query
from New User
>>>> > >
>>>> > > That's exactly where I was going with that. lol.
I use reaper,
>>>> hell,
>>>> like I said in my last message, I paid for it.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On Sep 10, 2013, at 4:25 PM, "Chris Belle"
>>>> <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > > I think GF was being humorous.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I took it that way anyhow.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Kind of how we get the shaft and the end of the
line
>>>> everywhere
>>>> in
>>>> the world and have to fight like dogs to not get left
out,
>>>> > > > but you know how it works in this world, money
talks and
>>>> bullshit
>>>> walks.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > If there were 20 million blind reaper users
ready to buy
>>>> access
>>>> would be here next week 'grin'.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > For now we just have to cowboy up and do the
best we can.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > > > From: Scott Chesworth
>>>> > > > To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:10 PM
>>>> > > > Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query
from New User
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Couple of points to keep in mind before you dig
too deep into
>>>> slating
>>>> > > > the Reaper developers in public...
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > They are aware that a visually impaired
userbase exists, and
>>>> have
>>>> > > > gradually been exposing GUI elements over time.
If you need
>>>> proof
>>>> of
>>>> > > > that, do some mousing around in Reaper on PC
and see how much
>>>> NVDA
>>>> > > > tells you, or compare how much is visible with
VoiceOver on
>>>> Mac
>>>> now
>>>> > > > against a version from a couple years back. API
bugs that
>>>> impacted
>>>> > > > upon ReaAccess were fixed, and there have been
a couple of
>>>> instances
>>>> > > > where accessibility gets a mention in the
changelogs. A
>>>> couple
>>>> of
>>>> > > > people with decent track records of getting
stuff done are in
>>>> contact
>>>> > > > with Justin the lead developer, all be it
sporadically.
>>>> They're
>>>> not
>>>> > > > shouting from the rooftops about that, but when
the progress
>>>> comes,
>>>> it
>>>> > > > happens in fits and starts and has been largely
due to nudges
>>>> and
>>>> > > > guidance from these key people. I think it's
fair to say that
>>>> Cockos
>>>> > > > have demonstrated that they're happy to help,
but they need
>>>> guidance
>>>> > > > and it needs to fit around their existing
roadmap. I think
>>>> it's
>>>> pretty
>>>> > > > unfair to say we've been shafted. If you must
find a home for
>>>> that
>>>> > > > accusation, Ivan's your man. Tell him who sent
you lol.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Is the future certain? No. Then again, are
their other DAW
>>>> developers
>>>> > > > showing markedly less interest? You betcha.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Nice idea re the NVDA team. Last time I
approached Jamie
>>>> about
>>>> Reaper
>>>> > > > he was up to his ears in Sonar as his pet
project, but who
>>>> knows,
>>>> > > > someone else might have better luck catching
him at the right
>>>> time.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Scott
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > On 9/10/13, Goldfinga Productions
<goldfingas at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > > > > Glad I could brighten your day with that one.
lol.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > On Sep 10, 2013, at 9:18 AM, Keith Hinton
>>>> <keithint1234 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >> Muhahahahahahahhahaha! Cock OS! Oh dear! LOL
Okay, I'll
>>>> stop
>>>> laughing
>>>> > > > >> now.
>>>> > > > >> But yeah, I think we've got it for sure.
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> On 9/10/13, Goldfinga Productions
<goldfingas at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > > > >>> Remember folks, the developers of reaper
call them selves
>>>> "cockos." If
>>>> > > > >>> you
>>>> > > > >>> break that down, it spells "cock OS." lol.
I think we got
>>>> the
>>>> shaft on
>>>> > > > >>> this
>>>> > > > >>> one.
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>> On Sep 10, 2013, at 8:37 AM, Keith Hinton
>>>> <keithint1234 at gmail.com>
>>>> > > > >>> wrote:
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>>> I can tel you, despite being new myself,
that yes,
>>>> ReaAccess
>>>> has
>>>> > > > >>>> always been (basicly) the accessibility
pathway for
>>>> screen
>>>> readers to
>>>> > > > >>>> interface to Reaper.
>>>> > > > >>>> The development has die out-last update
was in 2010.
>>>> > > > >>>> A few folks have been able to use Reaper 4
with
>>>> ReaAccess
>>>> just
>>>> > > > >>>> fine-looking up workarounds for things
etc, but as I
>>>> understand
>>>> it
>>>> > > > >>>> your largely on your own with Reaper
anyways.
>>>> > > > >>>> Without ReaAccess, I do not believe any
native
>>>> accessibility
>>>> exists in
>>>> > > > >>>> Reaper itself.
>>>> > > > >>>> However, again, I could be utterly wrong.
>>>> > > > >>>> If others could reply to this new users
question as
>>>> well,
>>>> that
>>>> might
>>>> > > > >>>> help-but I believe I've answered it.
>>>> > > > >>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>
>>>> > > > >>>> On 9/10/13, Daveed Mandell
<daveedm at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > > > >>>>> Hello:
>>>> > > > >>>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>> What is the status of Reaper
accessibility right now? I
>>>> understand
>>>> > > > >>>>> that
>>>> > > > >>>>> Reaper's developers have shown little or
no interest in
>>>> making
>>>> the
>>>> > > > >>>>> software
>>>> > > > >>>>> accessible, and that accessibility has
been provided
>>>> through
>>>> a
>>>> > > > >>>>> separate
>>>> > > > >>>>> bridfe produced by blind people working
from this list
>>>> and
>>>> website. I
>>>> > > > >>>>> also
>>>> > > > >>>>> understand that the website itself isn't
functioning
>>>> anymore
>>>> due to
>>>> > > > >>>>> problems
>>>> > > > >>>>> related to spam. At any rate, is the
latest version of
>>>> Reaper,
>>>> version
>>>> > > > >>>>> 4.5,
>>>> > > > >>>>> accessible for blind folks? It is
interesting to note
>>>> the
>>>> difference
>>>> > > > >>>>> in
>>>> > > > >>>>> attitude between the developers of
Reaper, versus the
>>>> developers of
>>>> > > > >>>>> the
>>>> > > > >>>>> free
>>>> > > > >>>>> Audacity audio software, who have been
very
>>>> conscientiously
>>>> > > > >>>>> integrating
>>>> > > > >>>>> accessibility into the software. Thanks
for any updates
>>>> and
>>>> > > > >>>>> information
>>>> > > > >>>>> regarding Reaper accessibility.
>>>> > > > >>>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>> Regards,
>>>> > > > >>>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>> Daveed Mandell
>>>> > > > >>>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>> > > > >>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>> > > > >>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >>>>>
http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >>>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>
>>>> > > > >>>> --
>>>> > > > >>>> Sincerely,
>>>> > > > >>>>
>>>> > > > >>>> Keith
>>>> > > > >>>> Home Phone:
>>>> > > > >>>> 928-554-3936
>>>> > > > >>>> Mobile Phone:
>>>> > > > >>>> 928-713-6370
>>>> > > > >>>> Primary email:
>>>> > > > >>>> keithint1234 at gmail.com
>>>> > > > >>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>> > > > >>>> RWP mailing list
>>>> > > > >>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >>>>
http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>> GF
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>> Check me out on twitter
>>>> > > > >>> http://www.twitter.com/goldfingas
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>>
_______________________________________________
>>>> > > > >>> RWP mailing list
>>>> > > > >>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >>>
http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> --
>>>> > > > >> Sincerely,
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> Keith
>>>> > > > >> Home Phone:
>>>> > > > >> 928-554-3936
>>>> > > > >> Mobile Phone:
>>>> > > > >> 928-713-6370
>>>> > > > >> Primary email:
>>>> > > > >> keithint1234 at gmail.com
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >>
_______________________________________________
>>>> > > > >> RWP mailing list
>>>> > > > >> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >>
http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > GF
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > Check me out on twitter
>>>> > > > > http://www.twitter.com/goldfingas
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
_______________________________________________
>>>> > > > > RWP mailing list
>>>> > > > > RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >
http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > > RWP mailing list
>>>> > > > RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > >
http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > > RWP mailing list
>>>> > > > RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > >
http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > GF
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Check me out on twitter
>>>> > > http://www.twitter.com/goldfingas
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > RWP mailing list
>>>> > > RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > >
http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > RWP mailing list
>>>> > > RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > >
http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > GF
>>>> >
>>>> > Check me out on twitter
>>>> > http://www.twitter.com/goldfingas
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > RWP mailing list
>>>> > RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> >
http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > RWP mailing list
>>>> > RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> >
http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> GF
>>>>
>>>> Check me out on twitter
>>>> http://www.twitter.com/goldfingas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>
http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> RWP mailing list
>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RWP mailing list
>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RWP mailing list
> RWP at reaaccess.com
> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>
_______________________________________________
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