[RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
Chris Belle
cb1963 at sbcglobal.net
Thu Sep 12 22:54:49 EDT 2013
Yeh, you can.
Still not as smooth as automation even with snapshot automation, but better when cross-fades are eliminated.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Snowbarger
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
Right. It might be that you are juhst earing the abrupt change on gain. Any time the gain changes abruptly, you'll hear that as a click, or a pulse. But, isn't there across fade time that you can specify when going between items? I'm sure their is. That should solve those issues.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Belle
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
Well, for some reason even though reaper does a nice job of playing back,
split items especially if you use the z to get 0 crossings, it still sounds split in some cases, if you push amplitude changes too far, where as automation doesn't.
But for most practical purposes, it amounts to the same thing and doesn't matter.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Snowbarger
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
My guess is that, when you split an audio item, nothing actually happens to the signal. An item is just a set of control parameters, And, if two adjacent items refer to adjacent parts of the audio file, I but there isn't even any cross fading going on. It's like me telling you to count from 1 to 3, and then count from 4 to 10. I wont' hear you jump from 3 to 4. Your brain will concatenate automatically, and you'll count from 1 to 10, and I'll believe you.
The only down side is the need to press control+right Arrow more times to get anywhere. But, hey.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Belle
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
Well, at least with item based editing in reaper, you don't mess up anything.
It bothers me that we have to split audio to do things, even though it works, and reaper's crossfades are very smooth, it's still technically not cool to have to tear apart your audio just to do a little automation.
Or get around, in other words, to my engineer's head it's better to bend it than break it, even if you can fix it prety good.
Just in midi, this concept will work better, because it won't be necessary to cross-fade broken audio events.
It's just a matter of grouping then more than any physical changes to the actual data.
Item based midi editing, ok then , this will help, the other shoe drops 'grin'.
----- Original Message -----
From: David P Shortland
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
Hi & Greetings from Down Under...
Not as far as I have been abel to discover....
It always seems to start at the beginning of the Event List...
You can use Page Up & Page Down keys to jump 7 events at a time...
However, the work around that I do for this one is if I need to edit something that is say 16 bars into a Item.... I just do a split just before the section I wish to edit and Voila when the new Item is opened you are right there...
The more I use REAPER ... the more I am getting to know how this Item based Editing worx...
...and liking it...
It does not matter to me whether a Trak has One Item, several items or several thousand items,... at any given time you can Glue all the Items together and each part retains what you have edited and you can start again...
Also just as a quick mention, which some of us may need to get our heads around, is the concept of not having a dedicated SubGroup area.... the flexibility that REAPER allows by being able to put anything anywhere and being able to route anything to anywhere is simply in a word ... NICE!!!
Anyway... on with the Editing...
Kind regards
David P Shortland
DragonScore Productions
From: Chris Belle
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:17 AM
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
Hey, I have done that but is there an easy way to move between midi events?
I mean you can move along the time line, but in sonar it jumps through all the extra time and immediately goes to the next midi event.
Or do you have to go to the exact place on the time like for each midi event?
That was one thing killing me.
----- Original Message -----
From: David P Shortland
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
Hi & Greetings again from Down Under
Again, just a little addendum to Indy's post...
Once you have selected the MIDI Item you wish to Edit
Control plus Alt plus E opens the MIDI Editor...
You only need to do this once but you need to go to the Options Menu (I
think) or it might be the View Menu...(apologies not sure which)
Select Event List...
You can scroll up and down the Event List with the cursor keys
When you want to Edit an Event Focus on it and press Control plus F2
This Opens the Event Item Dialog and yu can TAB around and change whatever
you wish...
No need to go to the Apply or OK buttons just hit Enter when you have
finished your Edit...
Kind regards
David P Shortland
DragonScore Productions
-----Original Message-----
From: Indigo
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 8:52 PM
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
I used those ancient midi sequencers in dos or on the Atari ST; , like
Voyettra Gold, Doctor T's Keyboard Midi Sequencer, all totally
accessible, just punching in numbers, then I did midi from hardware
sequencers, from Yamaha and the MMT8; then I edited midi from Sonar
versions 4, 6, 7 and 8.5.3, and to me all editing at the event level is
the most tedious, most boring thing I could imagine.
I'd rather play in a passage a dozen times until I get it just right
than chase down a single midi event and type in number values.
But, for those who don't mind, I think Reaper's layout for getting at
notes and every single note event possible at tab and arrow keys
couldn't be more ideal.
How could it be easier than having everything neately labeled and laid
out at the taband arrow keys; where you can arrow to other note values,
for instance, or type in different numbers for velocity, note length,
pitch, program number, yada yada yada?
One thing to note is that; when finished with editing; you need to tab
to apply, and then hit enter; but there can be another step that might
or might not be required.
At certain places, you might need to find an OK button that needs to be
clicked; after pressing enter on Apply takes you back to the track view;
so look out for that one.
If anyone is not hearing their changes of values being applied to their
music, go to your number pad and use your PC cursor slash mouse pointer
slash object navigation to find that OK button, then left click it.
I'll go search my collection and repost David Shortland's method of
reaching the midi editor.
By the way, since it's a different midi editor than the inline editor
that Ivan's shortcut reached, maybe reaAccess is not doing anything to
assist with access of David's midi editor, it's just screenreader
friendly because Reaper is written that way, using Microsoft standard
menus and controls.
Indi
On 9/11/2013 4:51 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
> I'm really not a MIDI type, but sure, a repost of David's steps is
> bound to help someone.
>
> Yeah, of course MIDI is MIDI is MIDI from DAW to DAW, but I'd wager
> there would be neat little tips and tricks people use to speed up
> editing which are specific to each one. Sometimes, just watching
> someone else who's got a workflow down smashing through a task can be
> quite inspiring.
>
> Scott
>
>
> On 9/11/13, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>> I'll dig out and post the guide to bringing up the midi editor, David
>> Shortland style, which is step-by-step to get inside the midi editor,
>> right down to the event list for each note of your music along the
>> timeline.
>> Anyone who has the least experience with editing midi events in every
>> sequencer or daw ever made should know that midi is midi; and it isn't
>> different in a different daw.
>> Each event is clearly labeled in Reaper, in plain English, and if you
>> want to shorten or lengthen a note length, or move the note up or down a
>> list of chromatic notes, or shift it to another octave, or alter its
>> velocity number, or move the note's position on the timeline, or a
>> thousand other editing details; duh, what's so hard about that to figure
>> out?
>> So, it's laid out differently from Voyettra Gold, or Sonar, or ProTools,
>> don't we all expect that?
>> It's good for the health of our brain cells to exercise them, otherwise
>> we get to be an old dog that can't learn new tricks.
>> When all note events are clearly labeled, all laid out very conveniently
>> at the tab keys, with edit fields at the arrow keys, what more could
>> anyone ever hope for in access from a screenreader?
>> Indi
>>
>>
>> On 9/10/2013 8:15 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
>>> I've dropped Roy a line to see whether he'd have time to share some
>>> wisdom. Just hit on the idea of spending a bit of time hanging out
>>> with each of the people on here that are using Reaper to do cool
>>> stuff, whatever their stuff may be. I'd interview them and record a
>>> bit of them in action for an hour at most, then handle all the boring
>>> editing uploading headache stuff so they don't have too. Seems like if
>>> enough people are keen to be featured it'd make a neat little podcast
>>> series. I could justify putting the time into it seeing as I'd no
>>> doubt learn a bunch of stuff along the way.
>>>
>>> Let's see what happens. First time I've been excited about Reaper in a
>>> while, so I hope the response from Roy is positive so I can strike
>>> while the iron is hot here.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 9/11/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> Roy seems to have a leg up on some of the things we don't, bet he'd
>>>> help
>>>> out
>>>> if we approached him with a few clams.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Goldfinga Productions
>>>> To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 5:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ah, well that is a hole new animal… I can do some of it, but I
>>>> would
>>>> like
>>>> to better edit stuff. Is there a person doing this already? Are they
>>>> giving
>>>> lessons? lol
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 10, 2013, at 5:16 PM, "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I mean doing detailed editing and such.
>>>> >
>>>> > Are you down with that, I can load up and play midi and such,
>>>> but
>>>> detailed editing and nudging notes and doing transforms or search and
>>>> replace like the interpolate dialogue in sonar, that sort of stuff.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: Goldfinga Productions
>>>> > To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 3:44 PM
>>>> > Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
>>>> >
>>>> > I use midi all the time with reaper…
>>>> > That's why I have been all over poise, that's one less piece of
>>>> hardware
>>>> that I have to hook up to the mixer. Now I can leave my npc at the
>>>> church.
>>>> lol.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sep 10, 2013, at 4:41 PM, "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > yeh, reaper
>>>> > > isn't where sonar is but definitely useable,
>>>> > > especially with straight audio.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > We're all gonna have to flip Roy a few sheckles and get him to
>>>> show us
>>>> how he does midi with reaper,
>>>> > > I just ain't figured it out yet.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I mean I can do basics load a osft synth and hit the midi
>>>> editor,
>>>> > > and see some events and such, but it ain't anything like sonar
>>>> and
>>>> there are no docs,
>>>> > >
>>>> > > We desperately need some serious docs shoing how to do
>>>> everything.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > > From: Goldfinga Productions
>>>> > > To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 3:34 PM
>>>> > > Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
>>>> > >
>>>> > > That's exactly where I was going with that. lol. I use reaper,
>>>> hell,
>>>> like I said in my last message, I paid for it.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On Sep 10, 2013, at 4:25 PM, "Chris Belle"
>>>> <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > > I think GF was being humorous.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I took it that way anyhow.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Kind of how we get the shaft and the end of the line
>>>> everywhere
>>>> in
>>>> the world and have to fight like dogs to not get left out,
>>>> > > > but you know how it works in this world, money talks and
>>>> bullshit
>>>> walks.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > If there were 20 million blind reaper users ready to buy
>>>> access
>>>> would be here next week 'grin'.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > For now we just have to cowboy up and do the best we can.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > > > From: Scott Chesworth
>>>> > > > To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:10 PM
>>>> > > > Subject: Re: [RWP] Reaper Accessibility Query from New User
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Couple of points to keep in mind before you dig too deep into
>>>> slating
>>>> > > > the Reaper developers in public...
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > They are aware that a visually impaired userbase exists, and
>>>> have
>>>> > > > gradually been exposing GUI elements over time. If you need
>>>> proof
>>>> of
>>>> > > > that, do some mousing around in Reaper on PC and see how much
>>>> NVDA
>>>> > > > tells you, or compare how much is visible with VoiceOver on
>>>> Mac
>>>> now
>>>> > > > against a version from a couple years back. API bugs that
>>>> impacted
>>>> > > > upon ReaAccess were fixed, and there have been a couple of
>>>> instances
>>>> > > > where accessibility gets a mention in the changelogs. A
>>>> couple
>>>> of
>>>> > > > people with decent track records of getting stuff done are in
>>>> contact
>>>> > > > with Justin the lead developer, all be it sporadically.
>>>> They're
>>>> not
>>>> > > > shouting from the rooftops about that, but when the progress
>>>> comes,
>>>> it
>>>> > > > happens in fits and starts and has been largely due to nudges
>>>> and
>>>> > > > guidance from these key people. I think it's fair to say that
>>>> Cockos
>>>> > > > have demonstrated that they're happy to help, but they need
>>>> guidance
>>>> > > > and it needs to fit around their existing roadmap. I think
>>>> it's
>>>> pretty
>>>> > > > unfair to say we've been shafted. If you must find a home for
>>>> that
>>>> > > > accusation, Ivan's your man. Tell him who sent you lol.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Is the future certain? No. Then again, are their other DAW
>>>> developers
>>>> > > > showing markedly less interest? You betcha.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Nice idea re the NVDA team. Last time I approached Jamie
>>>> about
>>>> Reaper
>>>> > > > he was up to his ears in Sonar as his pet project, but who
>>>> knows,
>>>> > > > someone else might have better luck catching him at the right
>>>> time.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Scott
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > On 9/10/13, Goldfinga Productions <goldfingas at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > > > > Glad I could brighten your day with that one. lol.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > On Sep 10, 2013, at 9:18 AM, Keith Hinton
>>>> <keithint1234 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >> Muhahahahahahahhahaha! Cock OS! Oh dear! LOL Okay, I'll
>>>> stop
>>>> laughing
>>>> > > > >> now.
>>>> > > > >> But yeah, I think we've got it for sure.
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> On 9/10/13, Goldfinga Productions <goldfingas at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > > > >>> Remember folks, the developers of reaper call them selves
>>>> "cockos." If
>>>> > > > >>> you
>>>> > > > >>> break that down, it spells "cock OS." lol. I think we got
>>>> the
>>>> shaft on
>>>> > > > >>> this
>>>> > > > >>> one.
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>> On Sep 10, 2013, at 8:37 AM, Keith Hinton
>>>> <keithint1234 at gmail.com>
>>>> > > > >>> wrote:
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>>> I can tel you, despite being new myself, that yes,
>>>> ReaAccess
>>>> has
>>>> > > > >>>> always been (basicly) the accessibility pathway for
>>>> screen
>>>> readers to
>>>> > > > >>>> interface to Reaper.
>>>> > > > >>>> The development has die out-last update was in 2010.
>>>> > > > >>>> A few folks have been able to use Reaper 4 with
>>>> ReaAccess
>>>> just
>>>> > > > >>>> fine-looking up workarounds for things etc, but as I
>>>> understand
>>>> it
>>>> > > > >>>> your largely on your own with Reaper anyways.
>>>> > > > >>>> Without ReaAccess, I do not believe any native
>>>> accessibility
>>>> exists in
>>>> > > > >>>> Reaper itself.
>>>> > > > >>>> However, again, I could be utterly wrong.
>>>> > > > >>>> If others could reply to this new users question as
>>>> well,
>>>> that
>>>> might
>>>> > > > >>>> help-but I believe I've answered it.
>>>> > > > >>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>
>>>> > > > >>>> On 9/10/13, Daveed Mandell <daveedm at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > > > >>>>> Hello:
>>>> > > > >>>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>> What is the status of Reaper accessibility right now? I
>>>> understand
>>>> > > > >>>>> that
>>>> > > > >>>>> Reaper's developers have shown little or no interest in
>>>> making
>>>> the
>>>> > > > >>>>> software
>>>> > > > >>>>> accessible, and that accessibility has been provided
>>>> through
>>>> a
>>>> > > > >>>>> separate
>>>> > > > >>>>> bridfe produced by blind people working from this list
>>>> and
>>>> website. I
>>>> > > > >>>>> also
>>>> > > > >>>>> understand that the website itself isn't functioning
>>>> anymore
>>>> due to
>>>> > > > >>>>> problems
>>>> > > > >>>>> related to spam. At any rate, is the latest version of
>>>> Reaper,
>>>> version
>>>> > > > >>>>> 4.5,
>>>> > > > >>>>> accessible for blind folks? It is interesting to note
>>>> the
>>>> difference
>>>> > > > >>>>> in
>>>> > > > >>>>> attitude between the developers of Reaper, versus the
>>>> developers of
>>>> > > > >>>>> the
>>>> > > > >>>>> free
>>>> > > > >>>>> Audacity audio software, who have been very
>>>> conscientiously
>>>> > > > >>>>> integrating
>>>> > > > >>>>> accessibility into the software. Thanks for any updates
>>>> and
>>>> > > > >>>>> information
>>>> > > > >>>>> regarding Reaper accessibility.
>>>> > > > >>>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>> Regards,
>>>> > > > >>>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>> Daveed Mandell
>>>> > > > >>>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> > > > >>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>> > > > >>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >>>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>
>>>> > > > >>>>
>>>> > > > >>>> --
>>>> > > > >>>> Sincerely,
>>>> > > > >>>>
>>>> > > > >>>> Keith
>>>> > > > >>>> Home Phone:
>>>> > > > >>>> 928-554-3936
>>>> > > > >>>> Mobile Phone:
>>>> > > > >>>> 928-713-6370
>>>> > > > >>>> Primary email:
>>>> > > > >>>> keithint1234 at gmail.com
>>>> > > > >>>>
>>>> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> > > > >>>> RWP mailing list
>>>> > > > >>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>> GF
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>> Check me out on twitter
>>>> > > > >>> http://www.twitter.com/goldfingas
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> > > > >>> RWP mailing list
>>>> > > > >>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >>>
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> --
>>>> > > > >> Sincerely,
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> Keith
>>>> > > > >> Home Phone:
>>>> > > > >> 928-554-3936
>>>> > > > >> Mobile Phone:
>>>> > > > >> 928-713-6370
>>>> > > > >> Primary email:
>>>> > > > >> keithint1234 at gmail.com
>>>> > > > >>
>>>> > > > >> _______________________________________________
>>>> > > > >> RWP mailing list
>>>> > > > >> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > GF
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > Check me out on twitter
>>>> > > > > http://www.twitter.com/goldfingas
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > > > RWP mailing list
>>>> > > > > RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > > http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > > RWP mailing list
>>>> > > > RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > > RWP mailing list
>>>> > > > RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > > http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > GF
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Check me out on twitter
>>>> > > http://www.twitter.com/goldfingas
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > RWP mailing list
>>>> > > RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > RWP mailing list
>>>> > > RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > > http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > GF
>>>> >
>>>> > Check me out on twitter
>>>> > http://www.twitter.com/goldfingas
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > RWP mailing list
>>>> > RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > RWP mailing list
>>>> > RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> > http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> GF
>>>>
>>>> Check me out on twitter
>>>> http://www.twitter.com/goldfingas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> RWP mailing list
>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RWP mailing list
>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RWP mailing list
> RWP at reaaccess.com
> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>
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