[RWP] Automation

Fri May 24 05:38:46 EDT 2013

Hey Jim, I did it with the pan control too.

Setting it to write, then doing the moves and then setting it to read.
on that automation trim.

Well, atleast we can do long fades now, and maybe speeding up the keyboard 
rate in control pannel would help for a temp fix.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation

Hey, talk about going over the same ground; just today I read a request
in a Cockos forum for a macro to nudge the volume up or down in larger
steps, with the nudge action repeated again and again in a macro.
I believe, unless I'm asleep, that there's already  an SWS action to do
that.
Tomorrow I'll google for it again.
I am getting bone tired, so don't want to go to Reaper now, but is
alt+up or down arrow the one that's available at all times in either
track view or effects view?
I never use it, but I remember a shortcut that always controls volume, I
think that's the one you used for automation?
You know, I'm believing that the reason it works is it's a native Reaper
shortcut, not something that Ivan invented.
However, some of ReaAccess was already there in straight Reaper.
I haven't confirmed it with sighted help yet, but there's a thing called
the track control panel to the left of each track; which might be the
thing we're accessing with our tab key in track view.

Tomorrow I'll try alt+up/down arrow , and look for methods of getting
larger nudges.
I vaguely remember going over this nudging by larger increments subject,
and think there's a quicker volume up down in another menu, maybe track
properties, or item properties, that really moves the volume quickly,
but it might not be automatable.
I remember that if you press home volume shoots immediately to
infinitely high; and end takes volume to Infinitely low
Page up and down makes volume change by huge steps, like at least 1 db
steps, or larger; when up and down arrow is changing volume by a
fraction of a DB.
I'll look for that menu or sub menu tomorrow.
You're making great progress.
Indi

  5/23/2013 10:22 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
> Ok,  I got reaper to record volume automation just as I described
> before, except using alt+downArrow.
> Tabbing to volume doesn't seem to work.
> The problem at the moment, is that alt+up and down arrow are attached to
> the action  track: nudge volume up or down, which moves in tiny little
> steps.
>
> Indigo, if you have your script established, I'm not that far yet, try
> writing a script that does  that action ten times per script call.   it
> would be nice if that key  moved in at least 1 db steps.  The tiny
> little micro DB steps it currently makes are ridiculously slow, and you
> could never mix on the fly like that.
>
>
> I'm trying to find the name of that API call,  RPR something, that lets
> you run an action from a reaper script.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 10:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>
>
> Hi Jim,
> I think Automation Mode Write should have been still showing when you
> went back to your track automation mode settings, so something turned
> that off and changed the display to trim off.
> The standard reaper instructions call for mouse moves to alter volume,
> pan, whatever during write; so must be that we will need to emulate
> mouse moves, instead of changing volume from the track settings at the
> tab key.
> Do you have any fader on a keyboard you can assign to a parameter?
> My Yamaha MM6 sends all its panel controls out by default; plus the
> Edirol PCR-300 sits just above My keyboard, and is enabled as a control
> surface, so always has a couple of controls that change some parameter
> in most synths; even without using midi learn
> How about your Peavey unit; did you enable it as a control surface?
>   Whatever it controls could demonstrate automation writing and reading.
>
> Even if not in the supported list, anything that transmits midi messages
> can be enabled in preferences to send controller data.
> My Edirol PCR, also my old M-Audio Trigger Finger, even an ancient Akai
> MM16 from back in the late eighties; all not supported, all send data as
> well as the supported Behringer BCF2000 does.
> Still, it would be nice to get hold of writing automation without any
> external gear.
> I'm guessing Ivan didn't enable controls in the tab key track control
> panel for generating automation data.
> That doesn't cripple us forever, we find another way.
> Here's what S O S magazine says about it:
> snip:
> You can generate automation data from software knob/fader movements or
> from an external MIDI controller, or draw it in using a mouse, and the
> resulting envelopes are all superimposed on the audio waveform or MIDI
> data, which makes it easy to synchronise your moves.
> You can then either draw in automation for any enabled and visible
> parameters using the mouse, or capture the movements of any
> mixer/plug-in parameter by 'arming' it, selecting write mode, moving the
> control with your mouse while playing back the song, and finally
> switching to Read mode to replay your moves. If you've got a MIDI
> controller you can also use the automation Learn mode to link a
> particular hardware button, knob, or fader to a particular parameter.
> There's plenty of scope for automation editing, too, and although in
> many cases drawing in the alterations with your mouse is probably the
> easiest approach, you can instead use latch or touch modes to do this
> while you move the controls in question. Latch starts capturing the
> modified data once you first move a control and continues until the song
> stops, while touch stops capturing data once you stop adjusting the value.
> End Snip.
>  From a tip Roy Shtupler provided, I have used Automation Mode Touch to
> do another action, to not begin recording the track at the beginning of
> measure 1, but to wait to begin recording until you press the first note
> key on your midi keyboard, so automation is not dead to everything  is
> sent from an ordinary midi keyboard.
> I'll try finding some control available by ReaAccess means to learn if
> anything Ivan set up generates automation data.Otherwise, one or more of
> the mouse modifier actions might be easy enough to assign a shortcut to,
> and might be used, with some thought about it.
> In Reaper; where there's a will there's a way.I never would have thought
> to make the metronome preroll into a way of limiting recording length to
> 2 or 4 measures, but someone in the forums did.
> Thanks,
> Indi
>
> .
>
>
> On 5/22/2013 10:58 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>> Indigo, thanks for the snip.
>> I tried translating this into non-mousey language, but so far couldn't
>> make it work.
>> Here is what I tried.
>> In the track menu, envelopes, toggle volume active is checked.
>>
>> Return to the track view, on the selected trac, and use the tab key to
>> find record automation, and set it to write, pressed enter and return to
>> track view.
>>
>> Pressed tab again, and located volume, set it to 0DB and pressed enter.
>> Started playback, pressed tab while playing, and mucked with volume to
>> create obvious changes.  Press enter.
>> Stop playback.
>> Tab key to find automation,  it had changed to Trim off.
>> I was surprised about that.  Changed it to read, and pressed enter.
>> playback showed no volume changes.
>> No automation was recorded.
>> Must be that my mousey back translator failed.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 5:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>
>>
>> Automation and drawing envelopes is very similar in Reaper.
>> In the Track menu you have the option; Set Automation Mode.
>> Arrow right on that and you get the modes, write, read, latch and trim.
>> You can also set the track's automation mode per track by tabbing to
>> automation mode in track view, and arrowing to the desired mode.
>> When setting automation mode with the tab key and arrows, click enter to
>> save settings.
>> In track menu arrow down a couple more spaces and you get the option;
>> Envelope submenu.
>> Arrow right on that and you get the various parameters to activate for
>> writing automation, like volume, pan, etcetera.
>>
>> In actions you also have a load of mouse modifier options for editing
>> the envelope shape and points, available to us by assigning shortcuts to
>> them to carry out the mouse movements.
>> Here's the Cockos Wiki on Automation:
>> Snip:
>> Automation
>> Main Page > REAPER Documentation, going further
>> Contents [
>> 1 What is Automation?
>> 2 Creating Automation
>> 3 Managing Envelopes
>> 4 Writing Automation
>> 5 Automation Write Example
>> 6 Automation and Envelope Defaults
>> What is Automation?
>> Automation is one of the most useful features of REAPER.
>> It enables you to ensure that when your project is played back, changes
>> in such things as volume level or panning for different tracks can be
>> remembered and played back in real time, with the project. At its
>> simplest, for example, you can use automation to lift the volume of a
>> lead instrument during a particular break or passage, or to add a little
>> presence or warmth to the odd phrase here or there on a vocal track, to
>> make it stand out in the mix a touch more. As you will see in this
>> section, that’s only the beginning. When used well, Automation delivers
>> the power to produce exactly the mix that you want.
>> Creating Automation
>> REAPER makes available to you two methods of automating your projects.
>> Both have their own advantages. Try them both – you can use either
>> method in your projects or a combination of both, as you prefer.
>> ?Writing Automation: When writing automation, you are able to instruct
>> REAPER to remember your actions – such as fading the volume control up
>> and down for any track or tracks – as your project is played. These
>> actions are used to create an envelope which is then reproduced when you
>> play back or mix down the track in the future (see example, right).
>> ?Drawn Envelopes: As an alternative to using your faders to create
>> envelopes, you can shape them manually. This give you a very fine degree
>> of control over your project. You can manually draw in envelopes which
>> will have the same effect as if actual fader movements had been recorded.
>> With both recorded and envelope automation, it is perfectly possible
>> (and quite easy) to edit the automation instructions afterwards, or to
>> remove them altogether if that’s what you want.
>> Managing Envelopes
>> Any track’s envelopes are managed by displaying the Envelopes Window for
>> that track. This is displayed by clicking on the track’s Envelope
>> button. You use this window, for example to:
>> ?Set the Automation Status for the track.
>> ?Create an envelope (eg for Volume or Pan).
>> ?To show or hide an envelope from view.
>> ?To Arm an envelope or Disarm it.
>> These issues will be explained and explored in the pages that follow.
>> Writing Automation
>> To create automation envelopes using the Write feature, use this method:
>> ?In the Track Control Panel, click on the Envelopes button to display
>> the list of parameters that can be automated.
>> ?Select the item you wish to automate, and make sure to also select the
>> options Visible and Arm.
>> ?Set Automation mode to Write.
>> ?Close the Envelopes window.
>> ?Position the Edit Cursor where you wish to start.
>> ?Play the song. As you do so, adjust the on screen control which
>> controls the parameter that you are automating.
>> ?Stop play when finished.
>> ?Right click over the Envelope button for that track and select
>> Automation Read.
>> ?Play the song. Listen and look!
>> Automation Write Example
>> ?Open your file "All Through the Night.RPP" (This is an example file
>> available on the Wiki Main Page). Save it as "All Through the Night
>> AUTO.RPP". We are going to add an automation envelope to the Bouzouki
>> track to fade this track up a little in the passage between the first
>> and second verses of this song.
>> ?Use your mouse to increase the height of the Bouzouki track. This isn’t
>> absolutely necessary, but makes it easier to see what you are doing.
>> ?Position the Edit Cursor just before the end of the first vocal passage
>> (see above).
>> ?Now click on the Envelopes button for the Bouzouki Track. Select Volume
>> and make it both Visible and Armed. Select the automation mode Write for
>> this track.
>> ?Close the Envelopes window. Notice that the Volume fader for this track
>> is now coloured red. The Envelope button displays a red dot.
>> ?Play the song.
>> ?As the instrumental passage starts, use your mouse to raise the fader
>> for the Bouzouki Volume by about a decibel. Hold it there, then at the
>> end of the instrumental break lower the fader to its original position.
>> Stop play.
>> ?Right click over the Envelope button for the Bouzouki track and choose
>> Automation Mode: Read from the context menu.
>> ?The fader for the Volume control from this track will now be green, and
>> your automation envelope should be clearly visible (see right).
>> ?Play the song. The volume fader for your bouzouki will automatically
>> move up and then down in accordance with the movements that you recorded.
>> ?Press Ctrl S to save this file.
>> Automation and Envelope Defaults
>> Before exploring any more of REAPER’s automation features, it’s worth
>> taking note of where your default Automation settings are stored. They
>> are in the Preferences window, on the Project Defaults page.
>> Here you can specify in particular:
>> ?The default automation mode for new tracks,
>> ?Whether or not envelopes are automatically armed as they are added.
>> Envelope defaults are stored on the Editing Behaviour, Mouse page.
>> Here you can specify how the mouse is to behave when you click on an
>> envelope. The two options are:
>> ?Adds a point,
>> ?Adjusts segment.
>> By default, click is set to add a point, Shift click is set to adjust
>> segment.
>> End Snip.
>>
>> On 5/21/2013 10:10 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>> That's the nice thing about recording automation in Sonar, isn't it.
>>> you can basically draw your own envelopes with your fader control on
>>> your control surface.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 6:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>>
>>>
>>>> So your essentially splitting out bits of audio and then doing volume
>>>> gain on them?
>>>>
>>>> Well, I guess that'd work for small volume changes, but splitting out
>>>> a clop or item in reaper land and doing a big change would probably
>>>> cause problems with audible pops and such.
>>>>
>>>> We really do need a better way to do automation with reaper.
>>>>
>>>> That and midi editing is kind of what's kept me from going all the way
>>>> with reaper.
>>>>
>>>> But there are things to love about this little swiss army knive.
>>>>
>>>> And ofcourse sighted people can draw envelopes and all that with sonar
>>>> or reaper, it doesn't matter for them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Chesworth"
>>>> <scottchesworth at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 4:59 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hey Chris,
>>>>>
>>>>> Using the latest version here. At one point I had a reason for that,
>>>>> but tbh it's been so long that I can't think what it was. Maybe next
>>>>> time I get a few days off I'll roll back to 3.78 and see what's
>>>>> missing. For now, I'm using item gain for volume and muting
>>>>> automation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/20/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hey, that's great.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you using 378 or a later version?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And what about working around things like automation?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Scott Chesworth" <scottchesworth at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 4:09 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tracking and/or mixing pretty much every day in Reaper now, for and
>>>>>>> with humans who are paying actual money.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just sayin'...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/20/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Patrick like you though I use reaper for just a few little things,
>>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>>> chosen to stay with the 3.78 version for the better fit with the
>>>>>>>> static
>>>>>>>> access development, because nothing messes with work flow as much
>>>>>>>> as not
>>>>>>>> being able to do basic i/o stuff efficiently.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I always went for the latest versions before but I'm finding I can
>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> do stuff now with reaper and it actually does what I told it to do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What good is a newer version if you can't get to things, or it
>>>>>>>> breaks
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that you had, and this is the worst kind of senario for new users,
>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>> old
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hats visiting a new set of tools.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I easily created a loop, tuned it and made it the speed I wanted,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> exported it, and whala,
>>>>>>>> no extra space in the loop, no why the hell didn't that work, with
>>>>>>>> 3.78
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> just works and everything talks right.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course when I get in to more advanced functions, i might take my
>>>>>>>> statement back, but for now I think I'll stay where your at.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since you do lots of post production and have to do essential
>>>>>>>> repetitive
>>>>>>>> tasks real world
>>>>>>>> audio chores
>>>>>>>> I value your experience and I think your the only one maybe
>>>>>>>> besides Roy
>>>>>>>> who I personally know who's actually doing work with reaper.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not to take away from the explorations others are doing and talking
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> but if there's a compelling reason to work with later versions and
>>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>> with the broken access, I haven't heard it yet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe the better midi editing?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Patrick Perdue" <patrick at pdaudio.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 9:25 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Everything should already be routed to master, unless you
>>>>>>>>> specifically
>>>>>>>>> unrouted them all individually, or if your tracks are in a folder
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> isn't sending to the master send itself. That's how the default
>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>> project template works. All newly created tracks are automatically
>>>>>>>>> routed
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to master. If you press shift+f5 (mute master track) and all your
>>>>>>>>> audio
>>>>>>>>> goes away, then you'll know all your tracks are, in fact,
>>>>>>>>> sending to
>>>>>>>>> master. You can also use shift+j or shift+k to read the peak
>>>>>>>>> meter of
>>>>>>>>> left/right, respectively, of master track's output in real time.
>>>>>>>>> Assuming
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> you are using Reaper 3.78, where you can still fully access all
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> context menus for routing, unlike 4.x versions, pressing
>>>>>>>>> shift+context
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> any highlighted track (it's a bit different for folders,) and
>>>>>>>>> one of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> options is "master track." Check or uncheck that box to
>>>>>>>>> route/unroute
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> selected track from master here.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2013 9:08 PM,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alexander Westphal wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello all!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have a compressor on the master track, but how do I now route
>>>>>>>>>> all my
>>>>>>>>>> tracks to the master?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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