[RWP] Routing Tracks to master track

Chris Belle cb1963 at sbcglobal.net
Wed May 22 23:55:58 EDT 2013 

Hey Patrick, that grow edges of items is way cool.

Like splicing boards, with wood putty ha ha.

I played with the fade in and fade out values and that helped, but growing 
those edges is like the audio never got split up.

This even seems to work with non 0 crossing items.

So it's reasonably easy to get really fussy with your audio, I can see why 
that cat over at hrs likes it for drum editing, and he's got all the sighted 
tools to boot.

Still, I want my darn  automation 'grin'.

Well, you know how that goes, I'll wish in one hand and poop in the other 
and see which one fills up faster.

I'll just have to flip flop between sonar and reaper.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Patrick Perdue" <patrick at pdaudio.net>
To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track


> No, you never have to go into item properties at all to do this, and you 
> can even hear the changes while playing. So, once you get the hang of it, 
> it's fast. Not quite as fast as turning knobs on a box, but oh well.
> There are actions for growing/shrinking left/right of items, and changing 
> volume/pan/other stuff is context specific. So, if you've selected an 
> item, then tab to volume, that will affect the volume of that item. If you 
> select a track and do the same thing, you're changing the track, not the 
> item volume.
>
> On 5/22/2013 5:28 PM, Chris Belle wrote:
>> The salient point right now though is that without a control surface,
>> there is no way to do automation do I have that correct?
>>
>> I messed a bit with that item splitting and working on individual items,
>> does one always need to go in to item properties with shift enter to
>> edit volume and such, or is there an easier way?
>>
>> I know about the pan and volume controls on the alt and arrow keys,
>> but that's for tracks.
>>
>> But one could always put items on a separate track, nudge volume and
>> then recombine.
>>
>> Tedious to my way of thinking being I'm from the other camp, but it'd
>> work and pn phrase based stuff where you have no connect between items,
>> you wouldn't even have to worry about proper cross-fading.
>>
>> I think reaper for me will end up being a super duper loop machine and
>> also a easy way to tune guitars and do slight adjustments to timing and
>> things like that, that's where sonar is kind of a bitch.
>>
>> Wich slight adjustments, the differences in elastique and radius won't
>> be so noticeable.
>>
>> I think reaper 3.78 is the right place to be.
>>
>> Till something is done better with reaaccess
>> I think those routing options are very important.
>>
>> That can be a make it or break it thing in a daw, and i often do rather
>> complex routing.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Perdue" <patrick at pdaudio.net>
>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 2:05 PM
>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>
>>
>>> No, ReaAccess isn't blocking standard automation stuff. It, however,
>>> has no mechanism for viewing/editing automation envelopes once it's
>>> been recorded. Even though they are on-screen, you can't really do
>>> much. Also, implementation of a virtual control surface as such, would
>>> allow for further non-control surface track automation manipulation,
>>> and I think that's what the next, never released ReaAccess was
>>> supposed to do. This is why I mentioned ReaAccess in the first place.
>>>
>>> On 5/22/2013 2:59 PM, Indigo wrote:
>>>> Thanks, Patrick, I think I got it.
>>>> There's more than 1 way to do anything in Reaper.
>>>> Don't think that ReaAccess is blocking the use of standard Reaper
>>>> automation, though.
>>>> I use a lot of non-ReaAccess native procedures that work as they 
>>>> should;
>>>> nothing to do with ReaAccess.
>>>> There are a bunch more in the actions that Ivan could  have included in
>>>> future ReaAccess that never came, but that doesn't obligate us to sit
>>>> and wait for him to assign shortcuts to them.
>>>> We're all very busy, and it'll take time; but eventually we'll get
>>>> enhanced actions and macros to augment ReaAccess's shortcomings
>>>> Also, Ivan seems to have some conflicts between shortcuts.
>>>> Yesterday, I found a native action with the same shortcut as 1 in
>>>> ReaAccess, but then lost it in that list of thousands of actions.
>>>> Eventually I'll find it again and remove its shortcut, so the ReaAccess
>>>> action should either work; or work more dependably without that 
>>>> shortcut
>>>> conflict going on.
>>>> Indi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/21/2013 8:48 PM, Patrick Perdue wrote:
>>>>> Not quite. Split the item, then grow the let or right edge of which
>>>>> ever
>>>>> side you want to change the properties of. If you have two items at 
>>>>> the
>>>>> same position of the same file with different start and end times, you
>>>>> are just effectively cross-fading from one item to the other, in this
>>>>> case, the same audio source for each item, with respective item
>>>>> properties, I.E. pan, volume, etc. For example, if you pan item 1 hard
>>>>> left and item 2 hard right, you should get a pan left/right pan the
>>>>> length of your cross-fade. The longer the item length, the slower it
>>>>> happens. Same goes for volume changes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing to do with healing splits. In fact that would completely break
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/21/2013 8:08 PM, Indigo wrote:
>>>>>> Patrick, is that the same as Heal Splits; which does the automatic
>>>>>> crossfade to give the least possible noise at the healed split 
>>>>>> points?
>>>>>> I haven't used it, just read about it in the article on quantizing
>>>>>> audio
>>>>>> in Reaper.
>>>>>> Actually, there's a user-written custom action called Beat Detective
>>>>>> that auto-assigns beat and measure grid to audio tracks, same name 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> function as Beat Detective in Cubase, also same as old Propeller 
>>>>>> Heads
>>>>>> Recycle; and Sony Acid Pro also does it.
>>>>>> After you have those beat and measure lines assigned by detecting
>>>>>> transcients, like the kick drum, quantizing audio and editing gets
>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>> Indi
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/21/2013 5:47 PM, Patrick Perdue wrote:
>>>>>>> It sounds a lot more painful than it actually is. One of those 
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> that takes longer to explain by at least a factor of five than
>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>> doing it. Having ever used Sonar for automation, I can't know how
>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>> better it is, which is probably not a bad thing in my particular
>>>>>>> situation. Then again, doing what I'm doing now in Sonar...
>>>>>>> possible, I
>>>>>>> guess, but the idea scares me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/21/2013 5:36 PM, Chris Belle wrote:
>>>>>>>> Sounds convoluted to me, I'm so spoiled by sonar's easy automation,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> I'll have to experiment with that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Perdue"
>>>>>>>> <patrick at pdaudio.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 10:57 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you split an item and change it's volume, then overlap it
>>>>>>>>> with an
>>>>>>>>> existing item with the same actual content by extending the left
>>>>>>>>> edge
>>>>>>>>> of your new item so that it's on top of the old one in just the
>>>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>>> way, it's a very smooth crossfade, no clicky poppy badness. Since
>>>>>>>>> you're dealing with the same audio, you're crossfade turns into a
>>>>>>>>> relatively linear gain change when needed. I've done it plenty of
>>>>>>>>> times. It's not pretty, but it is effective. I've also recorded
>>>>>>>>> automation with a control surface, which works as long as you 
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> want to actually edit stuff after the fact, other than undo,
>>>>>>>>> assuming
>>>>>>>>> you're still at the point where you can get away with that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/21/2013 7:14 AM, Chris Belle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> So your essentially splitting out bits of audio and then doing
>>>>>>>>>> volume
>>>>>>>>>> gain on them?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, I guess that'd work for small volume changes, but splitting
>>>>>>>>>> out a
>>>>>>>>>> clop or item in reaper land and doing a big change would probably
>>>>>>>>>> cause
>>>>>>>>>> problems with audible pops and such.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We really do need a better way to do automation with reaper.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That and midi editing is kind of what's kept me from going all 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>> with reaper.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But there are things to love about this little swiss army knive.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And ofcourse sighted people can draw envelopes and all that with
>>>>>>>>>> sonar
>>>>>>>>>> or reaper, it doesn't matter for them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Chesworth"
>>>>>>>>>> <scottchesworth at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 4:59 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Chris,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Using the latest version here. At one point I had a reason for
>>>>>>>>>>> that,
>>>>>>>>>>> but tbh it's been so long that I can't think what it was. Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>>> time I get a few days off I'll roll back to 3.78 and see what's
>>>>>>>>>>> missing. For now, I'm using item gain for volume and muting
>>>>>>>>>>> automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/20/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, that's great.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you using 378 or a later version?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And what about working around things like automation?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Scott Chesworth" <scottchesworth at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 4:09 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tracking and/or mixing pretty much every day in Reaper now, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with humans who are paying actual money.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just sayin'...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/20/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Patrick like you though I use reaper for just a few little
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chosen to stay with the 3.78 version for the better fit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> static
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access development, because nothing messes with work flow as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being able to do basic i/o stuff efficiently.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always went for the latest versions before but I'm finding 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do stuff now with reaper and it actually does what I told
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What good is a newer version if you can't get to things, or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> breaks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you had, and this is the worst kind of senario for new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> old
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hats visiting a new set of tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I easily created a loop, tuned it and made it the speed I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exported it, and whala,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no extra space in the loop, no why the hell didn't that work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.78
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just works and everything talks right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course when I get in to more advanced functions, i might
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> take my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> statement back, but for now I think I'll stay where your at.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since you do lots of post production and have to do essential
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> repetitive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasks real world
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio chores
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I value your experience and I think your the only one maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> besides
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who I personally know who's actually doing work with reaper.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to take away from the explorations others are doing and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if there's a compelling reason to work with later 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the broken access, I haven't heard it yet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe the better midi editing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Patrick Perdue" <patrick at pdaudio.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 9:25 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything should already be routed to master, unless you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specifically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unrouted them all individually, or if your tracks are in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> folder
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't sending to the master send itself. That's how the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> default
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project template works. All newly created tracks are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> routed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to master. If you press shift+f5 (mute master track) and all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes away, then you'll know all your tracks are, in fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sending to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> master. You can also use shift+j or shift+k to read the peak
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meter of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> left/right, respectively, of master track's output in real
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assuming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are using Reaper 3.78, where you can still fully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context menus for routing, unlike 4.x versions, pressing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shift+context
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any highlighted track (it's a bit different for folders,) 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options is "master track." Check or uncheck that box to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> route/unroute
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> selected track from master here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2013 9:08 PM,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexander Westphal wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a compressor on the master track, but how do I now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> route
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tracks to the master?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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