[RWP] Routing Tracks to master track

Wed May 22 20:11:44 EDT 2013

I agree, the clops pane in sonar is kind of a pain in the butt so I largely 
stay out of it and find other ways of doing things.

The things like midi editing and easy automation are the sweet spots in 
sonar.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Casey" <brian_w_casey at hotmail.com>
To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track

> Chris, many  other daws and protools in particular use nondestructive 
> auido editing, meaning the actual nature of an edit of cross fade or what 
> have you is stored in a separate file, and unless an edit is bounced down 
> or applied permanently the original wav remains unchanged. I'm not sure if 
> this is more cpu intensive but I' dimagine not too much seeing as protools 
> has worked like this from very early on, or at least that's how I recall 
> it.
>
> I do still think sonar lags behind as an audio editor etc in many of these 
> respects even though we find our work arounds.
>
> It seems cross fading an dmaking clean edits can be much more intuitive in 
> other daws once you set up a workflow  with the relevant settings.
>
> For starters, not sure if its CT acting up or what, but when I make an 
> edit on an audio track, often the only way to get the tabbing to 
> transients function going again reliably is by doing a bounce to clips, 
> sometimes it just loses the transient detection of its own accord.
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 9:42 PM
> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>
>> Guess I'm used to sonar's way of doing things.
>>
>> When you split a clip or item as your used to calling it, it actually 
>> often will clip a wav file.
>>
>> I haven't gone in to all the ways sonar uses it's wavs internally, but it 
>> does do some slicing and dicing internally and these are controled by the 
>> .cwp file, so best way to go back is to save versions of the cwp file 
>> before the edit.
>>
>> Whether the edits are made in a way that the original wav isn't cut but 
>> muted and the edits are played, I'm not sure, but if reaper actually does 
>> nothing to the original wav form that's good.
>>
>> I'll have to experiment to see if the swame holds true for sonar for the 
>> original wav form.
>>
>> But these are usually 32 bit floating point wavs, so sometimes they don't 
>> play nice with regular players to check them out, lots of white noise and 
>> static and such or like the audio is being very clipped.
>>
>> Atleast in winamp anyway, soundforge will of course play them just fine.
>>
>> After doing a bunch of edits I see lots of extra wav files named 
>> something like edit 123 guitar
>> or something similar according to what track it came from.
>>
>> Anyway, the point is it works one way or another.
>>
>> I guess reaper doesn't slice any wav forms off for edits according to 
>> what your saying.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Patrick Perdue" <patrick at pdaudio.net>
>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 4:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>
>>
>>> Semantics at this point, but you can't go back to the original wav file. 
>>> Why? Because you're still using the original wav file, therefore, 
>>> nothing to revert back to, other than clearing item properties. The 
>>> audio you started with is still the same audio you'll have after 
>>> changing all that stuff, as far as the source material is concerned. 
>>> Nothing, in fact, is being done to that file at all. You're just editing 
>>> an XML file with a GUI, which tells things to do stuff.
>>>
>>> On 5/22/2013 3:40 AM, Chris Belle wrote:
>>>> Oh sure, if you mean it like that ok.
>>>>
>>>> One can always step back to the original wav.
>>>>
>>>> Or make copies of the project file.
>>>>
>>>> I guess I was making the distinction between control information to 
>>>> play
>>>> back the wav file currently loaded as apposed to actually operating on
>>>> that wav file.
>>>>
>>>> Not really a lot of difference in practical terms.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Perdue" 
>>>> <patrick at pdaudio.net>
>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 1:28 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Nope, it's totally non-destructive editing. You're not rendering
>>>>> things offline and changing the original wave, just a copy in a
>>>>> project that tells it what to do on playback. It can easily be undone
>>>>> well after the fact, even if you can't get that far back in your undo
>>>>> history. Most of what I do is non-destructive in that way.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/22/2013 2:01 AM, Chris Belle wrote:
>>>>>> Yup, I don't have a surface yet because of all the nightmares 
>>>>>> associated
>>>>>> with them, but I can do the same thing with a learned fader from my
>>>>>> keyboards, and or doing lots of snapshots quicly very close together
>>>>>> produces the same thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If reaper had anything like this
>>>>>> I think that'd be enough to make me switch religions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I must investigate the crazy way Patrick does mixing by breaking 
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> wav forms and sliding them together and doing volume changes on the
>>>>>> actual wav form.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Danger there is you might clip, and it's also destructive editing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I screw up in sonar, just wipe the slate and start over with
>>>>>> automation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Snowbarger"
>>>>>> <Snowman at SnowmanRadio.com>
>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 9:10 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's the nice thing about recording automation in Sonar, isn't it.
>>>>>>> you can basically draw your own envelopes with your fader control on
>>>>>>> your control surface.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Belle" 
>>>>>>> <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 6:14 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So your essentially splitting out bits of audio and then doing 
>>>>>>>> volume
>>>>>>>> gain on them?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, I guess that'd work for small volume changes, but splitting 
>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>> a clop or item in reaper land and doing a big change would probably
>>>>>>>> cause problems with audible pops and such.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We really do need a better way to do automation with reaper.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That and midi editing is kind of what's kept me from going all the
>>>>>>>> way with reaper.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But there are things to love about this little swiss army knive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And ofcourse sighted people can draw envelopes and all that with
>>>>>>>> sonar or reaper, it doesn't matter for them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Chesworth"
>>>>>>>> <scottchesworth at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 4:59 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hey Chris,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Using the latest version here. At one point I had a reason for 
>>>>>>>>> that,
>>>>>>>>> but tbh it's been so long that I can't think what it was. Maybe 
>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>> time I get a few days off I'll roll back to 3.78 and see what's
>>>>>>>>> missing. For now, I'm using item gain for volume and muting
>>>>>>>>> automation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/20/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hey, that's great.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are you using 378 or a later version?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And what about working around things like automation?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Scott Chesworth" <scottchesworth at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 4:09 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tracking and/or mixing pretty much every day in Reaper now, for 
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> with humans who are paying actual money.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just sayin'...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/20/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Patrick like you though I use reaper for just a few little
>>>>>>>>>>>> things, I've
>>>>>>>>>>>> chosen to stay with the 3.78 version for the better fit with 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> static
>>>>>>>>>>>> access development, because nothing messes with work flow as 
>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>>> as not
>>>>>>>>>>>> being able to do basic i/o stuff efficiently.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I always went for the latest versions before but I'm finding I 
>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> do stuff now with reaper and it actually does what I told it to
>>>>>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What good is a newer version if you can't get to things, or it
>>>>>>>>>>>> breaks
>>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> that you had, and this is the worst kind of senario for new
>>>>>>>>>>>> users, even
>>>>>>>>>>>> old
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> hats visiting a new set of tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I easily created a loop, tuned it and made it the speed I 
>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> exported it, and whala,
>>>>>>>>>>>> no extra space in the loop, no why the hell didn't that work,
>>>>>>>>>>>> with 3.78
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> just works and everything talks right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course when I get in to more advanced functions, i might
>>>>>>>>>>>> take my
>>>>>>>>>>>> statement back, but for now I think I'll stay where your at.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Since you do lots of post production and have to do essential
>>>>>>>>>>>> repetitive
>>>>>>>>>>>> tasks real world
>>>>>>>>>>>> audio chores
>>>>>>>>>>>> I value your experience and I think your the only one maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>> besides Roy
>>>>>>>>>>>> who I personally know who's actually doing work with reaper.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to take away from the explorations others are doing and
>>>>>>>>>>>> talking
>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>> but if there's a compelling reason to work with later versions
>>>>>>>>>>>> and put
>>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>> with the broken access, I haven't heard it yet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe the better midi editing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Patrick Perdue" <patrick at pdaudio.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 9:25 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Routing Tracks to master track
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything should already be routed to master, unless you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> specifically
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unrouted them all individually, or if your tracks are in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> folder that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't sending to the master send itself. That's how the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> default new
>>>>>>>>>>>>> project template works. All newly created tracks are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically
>>>>>>>>>>>>> routed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to master. If you press shift+f5 (mute master track) and all
>>>>>>>>>>>>> your audio
>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes away, then you'll know all your tracks are, in fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sending to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> master. You can also use shift+j or shift+k to read the peak
>>>>>>>>>>>>> meter of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> left/right, respectively, of master track's output in real 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assuming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are using Reaper 3.78, where you can still fully access
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> context menus for routing, unlike 4.x versions, pressing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shift+context
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> any highlighted track (it's a bit different for folders,) and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> options is "master track." Check or uncheck that box to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> route/unroute
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> selected track from master here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2013 9:08 PM,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexander Westphal wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a compressor on the master track, but how do I now 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> route
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tracks to the master?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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