[RWP] considering purchasing the behringerBCF2000controlsurface, but have a few questions

Thu May 9 15:09:39 EDT 2013

So all we really need is to figure out what change in reapers APi broke 
the applications, shift+applications, and control+applications menus, 
and see if its possible to re-instate.
Then do some sort of hackery to get reaaccess out of the item menu and 
back in to options, and all will be well.

On 5/9/2013 2:45 PM, Indigo wrote:
> I'm not aware of which context menu existed with routing; channel 
> assignment or sends.
>  Channel can be assigned on a per track basis, at your tab key, with 
> the desired track selected.
> If you want to send midi from that track to more than 1 channel, copy 
> that midi track and assign the channel of the copy to another channel.
>
> The context menu which assigns various ways to monitor, also whether 
> midi or audio, whether mono or stereo, still displays if you first 
> press a variation of ctrl+up arrow.
> Experiment a little to find what works best for you.
> I need to hit ctrl+up arrow twice.
>
> Then press the applications key and that menu displays.
> Once you've got it to display, it usually displays again during that 
> session; without the fix.
> Press the letter I in track mode, with the desired track selected, and 
> you can assign sends from the selected track to all other tracks.
> Same with returns.
> Channels are also there, if I remember correctly, at least 1 through 
> 16, or all.
> Also, we can still  use version 3.78, before anything got broken.
> I like to look at the latest version, in hopes of something working 
> better, and haven't detected anything being further broken; so far.
> Indi
>
>
> On 5/8/2013 4:37 PM, Derek Lane wrote:
>> Press alt+shift+p for the peak inspector, set the tracks you want to
>> moniter and/or the master as well, and enjoy.
>> Also consider the fact that the context menus are broken with reaper 4.
>> Fine if you're doing things where no routing is required, but with
>> anything involving more than 2 channels/sends, etc. forget it
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin McDonald" <blulemon at telus.net>
>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 4:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the
>> behringerBCF2000controlsurface,but have a few questions
>>
>>
>>> I'm not sure there is much about reaper that is inaccessible with
>>> ReaAccess.
>>> Beyond graphs which are not accessible anywhere.
>>> The fact that reaper doesn't support control surfaces very well is not
>>> an accessibility issue because the software simply can't do it.  It's
>>> not an issue of it being able to do it, and we just can't access that
>>> part of it.
>>>
>>> I am in agreement about working with reaper, however, I think it's
>>> more productive to identify the areas that need the most work for
>>> accessibility, and along with that, identify areas that we would like
>>> to see improvement with the basic software.
>>>
>>> It's keyboard short cut heavy I know, but you can do practically
>>> anything the program can do using a screen reader.
>>> The one thing that is a big thing for me is the lack of an average
>>> peak meter reading that is accessible.  IE, something that will tell
>>> you what the average peak level of a given track, or the master track
>>> is.  J and K and shift J and K give you track and master peaks, but
>>> not average peaks...and as soon as you pause the audio, it loses the
>>> ability to read that information.
>>> So, you can very quickly hit shift J or shift K for left and right
>>> while the audio is playing, but you'll never really get a true peak
>>> reading or an average peak reading.
>>> This is useful when finishing a project so that you don't exceed a
>>> given level etc.
>>> The obvious work around is using a limiter and setting the threshhold
>>> etc, but if you don't wish to have the other elements that a limiter
>>> puts into the audio, then it's not an option.
>>> There is another way if I recall and that is to export the audio scope
>>> information to a text file and read it separately.
>>> I think that is a reaper function, though that might have been 
>>> audacity.
>>> I also wonder if a braille display would show more dynamic information
>>> like peak readings and so on where a screen reader struggles with
>>> constantly changing information like that.
>>>
>>> Shrug, like I said, there ain't much about reaper that is
>>> inaccessible, or that doesn't have a perfectly workable work around.
>>>
>>> regards
>>> Colin
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Goldfinga Productions"
>>> <goldfingas at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 12:13 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the
>>> behringerBCF2000controlsurface, but have a few questions
>>>
>>>
>>>> I don't have not one problem paying a developer for their time. I run
>>>> a recording studio As well, and know that that is what pays the
>>>> bills. The money was not the issue, I just was wondering if anyone
>>>> knew anyone who was interested in working on the project. I am not
>>>> one of those people who expects something for nothing, people like
>>>> that irritate me. But anyway, this is not a list for bashing the less
>>>> fortunate or anything like that. The question still stands, does
>>>> anyone know of anyone who may be interested in working on a new
>>>> accessibility project for reaper. Reaper is very open source, and I'm
>>>> quite sure that if we put the right person on the job, We may be able
>>>> to advance musically as a community. Right now, our options are very
>>>> limited as far as digital audio workstation software. We have limited
>>>> accessibility to several programs, and at the end of the day, we
>>>> never can get the total idea down without jumping through hoops, for
>>>> using several pieces of software to complete one task. I have one
>>>> person who may be interested in looking at reaper and how we can make
>>>> it accessible, we'll see where that goes. But if anyone knows any
>>>> developers who are looking for something interesting to get into,
>>>> let's try to get this thing going again.
>>>>
>>>> Please ignore any spelling errors or typos in this message, I am
>>>> using dictation. LOL
>>>>
>>>> GF
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 8, 2013, at 11:47 AM, "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey there are hungry programmers out there, you got the money, they
>>>>> got the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what I did to get nvda to work better with sonar since I was
>>>>> sick of jaws quirks and bloat.
>>>>>
>>>>> These big companies want thousands just to even look at things, but
>>>>> you'd be supprised what you can do one on one with someone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Problem is most blindies want everything for nothin'.
>>>>>
>>>>> And I understnad, many of them are flat broke.
>>>>>
>>>>> But just like we like to get paid for our studio chops and gig time,
>>>>> programmers are the same way, they got to eat too.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was very fortunate to find the guy I did who is a good musician
>>>>> and a programmer too.
>>>>>
>>>>> It only takes money honey.
>>>>> ha ha.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Goldfinga Productions"
>>>>> <goldfingas at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 10:31 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the behringer
>>>>> BCF2000controlsurface, but have a few questions
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> That is the first thing I did. It's always a lot faster to get the
>>>>>> file from someone who Artie has it though. It's all good, I'll get
>>>>>> my hands on it. LOL. Thanks for the info though. I wonder if we can
>>>>>> get some people interested in creating a new accessible method for
>>>>>> using reaper. We probably wouldn't be having all these control
>>>>>> surface problems if we could get access to newer versions of reaper
>>>>>> that have better control surface support.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> GF
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 8, 2013, at 11:00 AM, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As usual; google the words cockos reaper klink's plug for BCF2000.
>>>>>>> If you include the word cockos you don't get all the grim reaper
>>>>>>> hits, only the cockos forums; and even if I didn't spell Herr
>>>>>>> Klink's name correctly, it's close enough to get hits on several
>>>>>>> forum threads with download links to all about Klink's plug, and
>>>>>>> documentation on how to use it to control Reaper.
>>>>>>> I'm amazed that Patrick made the plug work with his Korg
>>>>>>> MicroKontrol instead of the Behringer BCF2000.
>>>>>>> There is another control map for Reaper and the BCF2000 that is
>>>>>>> set up like the Behringer factory control maps.
>>>>>>> It has its own website, and it's free.
>>>>>>> I'll try to find a link to that one if you want to try it.
>>>>>>> Indi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/7/2013 11:42 PM, Goldfinga Productions wrote:
>>>>>>>> I will have to check out this plug-in. Where can I get it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> GF
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 7, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Patrick,
>>>>>>>>> I downloaded Klink's map for BCF2000, but didn't get round to
>>>>>>>>> studying what it controls.
>>>>>>>>> Also, which variation of Klink's map  you get depends on which
>>>>>>>>> forum thread you go to; and it never seems to be finished,
>>>>>>>>> there's a later version every time I go to the Cockos forums.
>>>>>>>>> Did you get enough documentation to understand what it controls?
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Indi
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2013 4:47 PM, Patrick Perdue wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I'm using the Mackie protocol with my Nanokontrol, and Klinke's
>>>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>>>> surface plugin, which offers a better implementation of Mackie
>>>>>>>>>> Control
>>>>>>>>>> than the stock Reaper support.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2013 4:23 PM, Gordon Kent wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> The only one I've gotten to work reliably is the frontier 
>>>>>>>>>>> designs
>>>>>>>>>>> tranzport, which isn't really a surface.  Make sure the
>>>>>>>>>>> control midi
>>>>>>>>>>> input and output of whatever surface you are trying to use is
>>>>>>>>>>> set to
>>>>>>>>>>> control only in reaper. I may have gotten my alesis master
>>>>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>>>>> working, I don't remember, but it would have been with the 
>>>>>>>>>>> mackie
>>>>>>>>>>> protycol.  I forget which mode I had to put the surface in,
>>>>>>>>>>> e.g. cubase,
>>>>>>>>>>> sonar, pro tools, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> Gord
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Goldfinga Productions
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 1:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the behringer BCF2000
>>>>>>>>>>> controlsurface, but have a few questions
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have three control surfaces, none of them want to play
>>>>>>>>>>> friendly with
>>>>>>>>>>> reaper. Which control protocol should I be using? And then I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>>>> have to figure out how to get each controller to activate that
>>>>>>>>>>> particular protocol.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> GF
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 7, 2013, at 9:02 AM, Patrick Perdue
>>>>>>>>>>> <patrick at pdaudio.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't have  a BCF2000 yet. I have a Korg NanoKotrol. To do
>>>>>>>>>>>> what you
>>>>>>>>>>>> describe, you'd have to use two profiles from the controller
>>>>>>>>>>>> itself,
>>>>>>>>>>>> one that acts as a standard control surface for track pan,
>>>>>>>>>>>> level,
>>>>>>>>>>>> mute/solo/arm, transport, etc. and another that sends out a
>>>>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>>>> different set of CC values for something like a generic
>>>>>>>>>>>> button/knob
>>>>>>>>>>>> box for effects. Bad things happen if you try using the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nanokontrol to
>>>>>>>>>>>> manipulate effects when it's set up as a Mackie Universal
>>>>>>>>>>>> Control
>>>>>>>>>>>> emulator, and I assume any other controller using the Mackie
>>>>>>>>>>>> Universal
>>>>>>>>>>>> Control protocol would have similar issues. Unfortunately, the
>>>>>>>>>>>> NanoKontrol editor, necessary to make this a bit easier by
>>>>>>>>>>>> creating
>>>>>>>>>>>> scenes on the controller's flash, thus making things a lot
>>>>>>>>>>>> easier, is
>>>>>>>>>>>> 100% inaccessible. So, at the moment, the only way I can do 
>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> reliably is to clear the settings on the controller, which
>>>>>>>>>>>> defaults to
>>>>>>>>>>>> sending midi CC values starting at 1 all on channel 1, when I
>>>>>>>>>>>> want to
>>>>>>>>>>>> use it for controlling effect
>>>>>>>>>>> s, then pressing the key combination to get it into "Sonar
>>>>>>>>>>> mode," or
>>>>>>>>>>> Mackie Control Universal mode, for actually acting as a
>>>>>>>>>>> control surface.
>>>>>>>>>>> What I eventually want to do is get something like a BCF2000,
>>>>>>>>>>> dedicate
>>>>>>>>>>> it for track stuff, then use the NanoKontrol as a dedicated
>>>>>>>>>>> box for
>>>>>>>>>>> controlling plugin parameters. Lots of people are doing this
>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>>> BCF2000 and a BCR2000, which is all rotary encoders and
>>>>>>>>>>> buttons, whereas
>>>>>>>>>>> the BCF2000 has flying faders. The BCR2000 has more available
>>>>>>>>>>> controls,
>>>>>>>>>>> but the Nanokontrol is a lot cheaper, and will serve just as
>>>>>>>>>>> well for my
>>>>>>>>>>> purposes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am, however, frustrated by the lack of access to
>>>>>>>>>>>> automation. Once
>>>>>>>>>>>> you've created envelope points, you're stuck with them,
>>>>>>>>>>>> unless you can
>>>>>>>>>>>> still get to them in the undo history. If you can see, you
>>>>>>>>>>>> can re-draw
>>>>>>>>>>>> envelope curves after they've been created, but with
>>>>>>>>>>>> ReaAccess, not
>>>>>>>>>>>> much to be done. A fix was promised in the never to be
>>>>>>>>>>>> released next
>>>>>>>>>>>> version of ReaAccess, of course, as well as a way to create,
>>>>>>>>>>>> edit and
>>>>>>>>>>>> remove automation from a keyboard, without the need for a
>>>>>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>>>>>> surface at all., I.E. the way JSonar does it. I have faked my
>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>> around that by overlapping items with the same material,
>>>>>>>>>>>> panning or
>>>>>>>>>>>> changing levels of each, then overlapping the items as
>>>>>>>>>>>> necessary to
>>>>>>>>>>>> create envelopes, fades, linear panning, etc. without the use
>>>>>>>>>>>> of a
>>>>>>>>>>>> control surface, and it does work, though it's pretty hacky.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/6/2013 10:06 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This sounds like mapping surface controls to control the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> parameter of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> particular effect on a particular track.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> IS that right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose you wanted to assign some knob to the volume of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> track, not an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect parameter.  How would you do that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex H."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 8:33 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the behringer
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BCF2000 control
>>>>>>>>>>>>> surface, but have a few questions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He means that in the FX window you can assign a parameter 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> button/pot using MIDI learn, and set up custom mappings to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suit your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> workflow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/6/13, Justin Thornton <drummer060891 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what do you mean when you say "click on Param in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effects routing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just a little confused
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 6, 2013, at 9:10 AM, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> click on Param in the effects routing page
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> RWP mailing list
>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RWP mailing list
>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> RWP mailing list
> RWP at reaaccess.com
> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com