[RWP] considering purchasing the behringer BCF2000controlsurface, but have a few questions

Wed May 8 17:53:05 EDT 2013

Oh I know, with sonar you can do snapshots via context menu easy as pie, and 
that's how I like to work.

And midi editing could be better last time I looked.

I need to get Patricks and Derecks versions of reaper and really dive in 
again when I get time and see what I can do re-acquaint myself with reaper.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alex H." <linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com>
To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the behringer 
BCF2000controlsurface, but have a few questions

> Agreed Chris. JAWS isn't the answer to everyone's problems. Hardcore
> NVDA user here.
>
> So, things that need work, opinion as always, but some of it's just
> bluntly, obviously, broken or never worked for us in general.
>
> -Automation. Plain and simple. not MIDI/OSC. Good old mousey mousey
> automation. Should be a way to do that with the keyboard...somehow.
> Probably in realtime as a track's playing, and assign various
> up/down/next/pripr param to keystrokes. Clunky, but there's not really
> a good way to do this unless you've got a control surface which sort
> of negates that whole thing. But we don't all have control surfaces.
>
> -Track Routing: As Derek said, routing is pretty broken in Reaper 4
> when doing more than two channel stuff. Workable at best, but again,
> clunky. If we're gonna do it, let's do it right.
>
> More that I'm missing of course but let's see others chime in, round
> tables are beautiful things :)
> thanks
> Alex
>
> On 5/8/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> yes, if I came across negqtive at all was not meant that way.
>>
>> I'm just hard core and practical and I know it's gonna take money.
>>
>> I also know most of the folks here on this list aren't running working
>> studio's but are just hobbiests, and that makes a difference.
>>
>> Most of the serious studio cats are using sonar or pt, one guy I know 
>> using
>>
>> cubass, but this could change if we could get something ling.
>>
>> I'll committ to spending some money, but not for a jaws only deal.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Alex H." <linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com>
>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 2:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the behringer
>> BCF2000controlsurface, but have a few questions
>>
>>
>>> Agreed with GF. Also willing to drop some bucks on having something a
>>> bit more flexible/actively developed than ReaAccess. Let's keep it
>>> productive. Money talks, and so should we, to each other to actually,
>>> do something.
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> On 5/8/13, Goldfinga Productions <goldfingas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I don't have not one problem paying a developer for their time. I run a
>>>> recording studio As well, and know that that is what pays the bills. 
>>>> The
>>>> money was not the issue, I just was wondering if anyone knew anyone who
>>>> was
>>>> interested in working on the project. I am not one of those people who
>>>> expects something for nothing, people like that irritate me. But 
>>>> anyway,
>>>> this is not a list for bashing the less fortunate or anything like 
>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> The
>>>> question still stands, does anyone know of anyone who may be interested
>>>> in
>>>> working on a new accessibility project for reaper. Reaper is very open
>>>> source, and I'm quite sure that if we put the right person on the job,
>>>> We
>>>> may be able to advance musically as a community. Right now, our options
>>>> are
>>>> very limited as far as digital audio workstation software. We have
>>>> limited
>>>> accessibility to several programs, and at the end of the day, we never
>>>> can
>>>> get the total idea down without jumping through hoops, for using 
>>>> several
>>>> pieces of software to complete one task. I have one person who may be
>>>> interested in looking at reaper and how we can make it accessible, 
>>>> we'll
>>>>
>>>> see
>>>> where that goes. But if anyone knows any developers who are looking for
>>>> something interesting to get into, let's try to get this thing going
>>>> again.
>>>>
>>>> Please ignore any spelling errors or typos in this message, I am using
>>>> dictation. LOL
>>>>
>>>> GF
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 8, 2013, at 11:47 AM, "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey there are hungry programmers out there, you got the money, they 
>>>>> got
>>>>> the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what I did to get nvda to work better with sonar since I was
>>>>> sick
>>>>> of jaws quirks and bloat.
>>>>>
>>>>> These big companies want thousands just to even look at things, but
>>>>> you'd
>>>>> be supprised what you can do one on one with someone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Problem is most blindies want everything for nothin'.
>>>>>
>>>>> And I understnad, many of them are flat broke.
>>>>>
>>>>> But just like we like to get paid for our studio chops and gig time,
>>>>> programmers are the same way, they got to eat too.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was very fortunate to find the guy I did who is a good musician and 
>>>>> a
>>>>> programmer too.
>>>>>
>>>>> It only takes money honey.
>>>>> ha ha.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Goldfinga Productions"
>>>>> <goldfingas at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 10:31 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the behringer
>>>>> BCF2000controlsurface, but have a few questions
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> That is the first thing I did. It's always a lot faster to get the
>>>>>> file
>>>>>> from someone who Artie has it though. It's all good, I'll get my 
>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> it. LOL. Thanks for the info though. I wonder if we can get some
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> interested in creating a new accessible method for using reaper. We
>>>>>> probably wouldn't be having all these control surface problems if we
>>>>>> could get access to newer versions of reaper that have better control
>>>>>> surface support.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> GF
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 8, 2013, at 11:00 AM, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As usual; google the words cockos reaper klink's plug for BCF2000.
>>>>>>> If you include the word cockos you don't get all the grim reaper
>>>>>>> hits,
>>>>>>> only the cockos forums; and even if I didn't spell Herr Klink's name
>>>>>>> correctly, it's close enough to get hits on several forum threads
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> download links to all about Klink's plug, and documentation on how 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> use it to control Reaper.
>>>>>>> I'm amazed that Patrick made the plug work with his Korg 
>>>>>>> MicroKontrol
>>>>>>> instead of the Behringer BCF2000.
>>>>>>> There is another control map for Reaper and the BCF2000 that is set
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> like the Behringer factory control maps.
>>>>>>> It has its own website, and it's free.
>>>>>>> I'll try to find a link to that one if you want to try it.
>>>>>>> Indi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/7/2013 11:42 PM, Goldfinga Productions wrote:
>>>>>>>> I will have to check out this plug-in. Where can I get it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> GF
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 7, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Patrick,
>>>>>>>>> I downloaded Klink's map for BCF2000, but didn't get round to
>>>>>>>>> studying
>>>>>>>>> what it controls.
>>>>>>>>> Also, which variation of Klink's map  you get depends on which
>>>>>>>>> forum
>>>>>>>>> thread you go to; and it never seems to be finished, there's a
>>>>>>>>> later
>>>>>>>>> version every time I go to the Cockos forums.
>>>>>>>>> Did you get enough documentation to understand what it controls?
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Indi
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2013 4:47 PM, Patrick Perdue wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I'm using the Mackie protocol with my Nanokontrol, and Klinke's
>>>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>>>> surface plugin, which offers a better implementation of Mackie
>>>>>>>>>> Control
>>>>>>>>>> than the stock Reaper support.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2013 4:23 PM, Gordon Kent wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> The only one I've gotten to work reliably is the frontier 
>>>>>>>>>>> designs
>>>>>>>>>>> tranzport, which isn't really a surface.  Make sure the control
>>>>>>>>>>> midi
>>>>>>>>>>> input and output of whatever surface you are trying to use is 
>>>>>>>>>>> set
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> control only in reaper. I may have gotten my alesis master
>>>>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>>>>> working, I don't remember, but it would have been with the 
>>>>>>>>>>> mackie
>>>>>>>>>>> protycol.  I forget which mode I had to put the surface in, e.g.
>>>>>>>>>>> cubase,
>>>>>>>>>>> sonar, pro tools, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> Gord
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Goldfinga Productions
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 1:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the behringer BCF2000
>>>>>>>>>>> controlsurface, but have a few questions
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have three control surfaces, none of them want to play 
>>>>>>>>>>> friendly
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> reaper. Which control protocol should I be using? And then I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> have to figure out how to get each controller to activate that
>>>>>>>>>>> particular protocol.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> GF
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 7, 2013, at 9:02 AM, Patrick Perdue <patrick at pdaudio.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't have  a BCF2000 yet. I have a Korg NanoKotrol. To do
>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> describe, you'd have to use two profiles from the controller
>>>>>>>>>>>> itself,
>>>>>>>>>>>> one that acts as a standard control surface for track pan,
>>>>>>>>>>>> level,
>>>>>>>>>>>> mute/solo/arm, transport, etc. and another that sends out a
>>>>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>>>> different set of CC values for something like a generic
>>>>>>>>>>>> button/knob
>>>>>>>>>>>> box for effects. Bad things happen if you try using the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nanokontrol
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> manipulate effects when it's set up as a Mackie Universal
>>>>>>>>>>>> Control
>>>>>>>>>>>> emulator, and I assume any other controller using the Mackie
>>>>>>>>>>>> Universal
>>>>>>>>>>>> Control protocol would have similar issues. Unfortunately, the
>>>>>>>>>>>> NanoKontrol editor, necessary to make this a bit easier by
>>>>>>>>>>>> creating
>>>>>>>>>>>> scenes on the controller's flash, thus making things a lot
>>>>>>>>>>>> easier,
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> 100% inaccessible. So, at the moment, the only way I can do 
>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> reliably is to clear the settings on the controller, which
>>>>>>>>>>>> defaults
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> sending midi CC values starting at 1 all on channel 1, when I
>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> use it for controlling effect
>>>>>>>>>>> s, then pressing the key combination to get it into "Sonar 
>>>>>>>>>>> mode,"
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> Mackie Control Universal mode, for actually acting as a control
>>>>>>>>>>> surface.
>>>>>>>>>>> What I eventually want to do is get something like a BCF2000,
>>>>>>>>>>> dedicate
>>>>>>>>>>> it for track stuff, then use the NanoKontrol as a dedicated box
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> controlling plugin parameters. Lots of people are doing this 
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> BCF2000 and a BCR2000, which is all rotary encoders and buttons,
>>>>>>>>>>> whereas
>>>>>>>>>>> the BCF2000 has flying faders. The BCR2000 has more available
>>>>>>>>>>> controls,
>>>>>>>>>>> but the Nanokontrol is a lot cheaper, and will serve just as 
>>>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>>>> for my
>>>>>>>>>>> purposes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am, however, frustrated by the lack of access to automation.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Once
>>>>>>>>>>>> you've created envelope points, you're stuck with them, unless
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>> still get to them in the undo history. If you can see, you can
>>>>>>>>>>>> re-draw
>>>>>>>>>>>> envelope curves after they've been created, but with ReaAccess,
>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>> much to be done. A fix was promised in the never to be released
>>>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>>>> version of ReaAccess, of course, as well as a way to create,
>>>>>>>>>>>> edit
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> remove automation from a keyboard, without the need for a
>>>>>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>>>>>> surface at all., I.E. the way JSonar does it. I have faked my
>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>> around that by overlapping items with the same material, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> panning
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> changing levels of each, then overlapping the items as 
>>>>>>>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> create envelopes, fades, linear panning, etc. without the use 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> control surface, and it does work, though it's pretty hacky.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/6/2013 10:06 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This sounds like mapping surface controls to control the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> parameter
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> particular effect on a particular track.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> IS that right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose you wanted to assign some knob to the volume of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> track,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect parameter.  How would you do that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex H."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 8:33 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the behringer 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BCF2000
>>>>>>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>>>>>>> surface, but have a few questions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He means that in the FX window you can assign a parameter to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> button/pot using MIDI learn, and set up custom mappings to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> workflow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/6/13, Justin Thornton <drummer060891 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what do you mean when you say "click on Param in the effects
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> routing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just a little confused
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 6, 2013, at 9:10 AM, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> click on Param in the effects routing page
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> RWP mailing list
>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RWP mailing list
>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RWP mailing list
> RWP at reaaccess.com
> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com 