[RWP] considering purchasing the behringerBCF2000controlsurface, but have a few questions

Colin McDonald blulemon at telus.net
Wed May 8 16:53:58 EDT 2013 

ah, there you go.
Thanks for this.
not inaccessible like I thought.

Regards
Colin
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Derek Lane" <derek at pdaudio.net>
To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the 
behringerBCF2000controlsurface,but have a few questions


> Press alt+shift+p for the peak inspector, set the tracks you want to 
> moniter and/or the master as well, and enjoy.
> Also consider the fact that the context menus are broken with reaper 4. 
> Fine if you're doing things where no routing is required, but with 
> anything involving more than 2 channels/sends, etc. forget it
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Colin McDonald" <blulemon at telus.net>
> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 4:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the 
> behringerBCF2000controlsurface,but have a few questions
>
>
>> I'm not sure there is much about reaper that is inaccessible with 
>> ReaAccess.
>> Beyond graphs which are not accessible anywhere.
>> The fact that reaper doesn't support control surfaces very well is not an 
>> accessibility issue because the software simply can't do it.  It's not an 
>> issue of it being able to do it, and we just can't access that part of 
>> it.
>>
>> I am in agreement about working with reaper, however, I think it's more 
>> productive to identify the areas that need the most work for 
>> accessibility, and along with that, identify areas that we would like to 
>> see improvement with the basic software.
>>
>> It's keyboard short cut heavy I know, but you can do practically anything 
>> the program can do using a screen reader.
>> The one thing that is a big thing for me is the lack of an average peak 
>> meter reading that is accessible.  IE, something that will tell you what 
>> the average peak level of a given track, or the master track is.  J and K 
>> and shift J and K give you track and master peaks, but not average 
>> peaks...and as soon as you pause the audio, it loses the ability to read 
>> that information.
>> So, you can very quickly hit shift J or shift K for left and right while 
>> the audio is playing, but you'll never really get a true peak reading or 
>> an average peak reading.
>> This is useful when finishing a project so that you don't exceed a given 
>> level etc.
>> The obvious work around is using a limiter and setting the threshhold 
>> etc, but if you don't wish to have the other elements that a limiter puts 
>> into the audio, then it's not an option.
>> There is another way if I recall and that is to export the audio scope 
>> information to a text file and read it separately.
>> I think that is a reaper function, though that might have been audacity.
>> I also wonder if a braille display would show more dynamic information 
>> like peak readings and so on where a screen reader struggles with 
>> constantly changing information like that.
>>
>> Shrug, like I said, there ain't much about reaper that is inaccessible, 
>> or that doesn't have a perfectly workable work around.
>>
>> regards
>> Colin
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Goldfinga Productions" <goldfingas at gmail.com>
>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 12:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the 
>> behringerBCF2000controlsurface, but have a few questions
>>
>>
>>>I don't have not one problem paying a developer for their time. I run a 
>>>recording studio As well, and know that that is what pays the bills. The 
>>>money was not the issue, I just was wondering if anyone knew anyone who 
>>>was interested in working on the project. I am not one of those people 
>>>who expects something for nothing, people like that irritate me. But 
>>>anyway, this is not a list for bashing the less fortunate or anything 
>>>like that. The question still stands, does anyone know of anyone who may 
>>>be interested in working on a new accessibility project for reaper. 
>>>Reaper is very open source, and I'm quite sure that if we put the right 
>>>person on the job, We may be able to advance musically as a community. 
>>>Right now, our options are very limited as far as digital audio 
>>>workstation software. We have limited accessibility to several programs, 
>>>and at the end of the day, we never can get the total idea down without 
>>>jumping through hoops, for using several pieces of software to complete 
>>>one task. I have one person who may be interested in looking at reaper 
>>>and how we can make it accessible, we'll see where that goes. But if 
>>>anyone knows any developers who are looking for something interesting to 
>>>get into, let's try to get this thing going again.
>>>
>>> Please ignore any spelling errors or typos in this message, I am using 
>>> dictation. LOL
>>>
>>> GF
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 8, 2013, at 11:47 AM, "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey there are hungry programmers out there, you got the money, they got 
>>>> the time.
>>>>
>>>> That's what I did to get nvda to work better with sonar since I was 
>>>> sick of jaws quirks and bloat.
>>>>
>>>> These big companies want thousands just to even look at things, but 
>>>> you'd be supprised what you can do one on one with someone.
>>>>
>>>> Problem is most blindies want everything for nothin'.
>>>>
>>>> And I understnad, many of them are flat broke.
>>>>
>>>> But just like we like to get paid for our studio chops and gig time, 
>>>> programmers are the same way, they got to eat too.
>>>>
>>>> I was very fortunate to find the guy I did who is a good musician and a 
>>>> programmer too.
>>>>
>>>> It only takes money honey.
>>>> ha ha.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Goldfinga Productions" 
>>>> <goldfingas at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 10:31 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the behringer 
>>>> BCF2000controlsurface, but have a few questions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That is the first thing I did. It's always a lot faster to get the 
>>>>> file from someone who Artie has it though. It's all good, I'll get my 
>>>>> hands on it. LOL. Thanks for the info though. I wonder if we can get 
>>>>> some people interested in creating a new accessible method for using 
>>>>> reaper. We probably wouldn't be having all these control surface 
>>>>> problems if we could get access to newer versions of reaper that have 
>>>>> better control surface support.
>>>>>
>>>>> GF
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 8, 2013, at 11:00 AM, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As usual; google the words cockos reaper klink's plug for BCF2000.
>>>>>> If you include the word cockos you don't get all the grim reaper 
>>>>>> hits, only the cockos forums; and even if I didn't spell Herr Klink's 
>>>>>> name correctly, it's close enough to get hits on several forum 
>>>>>> threads with download links to all about Klink's plug, and 
>>>>>> documentation on how to use it to control Reaper.
>>>>>> I'm amazed that Patrick made the plug work with his Korg MicroKontrol 
>>>>>> instead of the Behringer BCF2000.
>>>>>> There is another control map for Reaper and the BCF2000 that is set 
>>>>>> up like the Behringer factory control maps.
>>>>>> It has its own website, and it's free.
>>>>>> I'll try to find a link to that one if you want to try it.
>>>>>> Indi
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/7/2013 11:42 PM, Goldfinga Productions wrote:
>>>>>>> I will have to check out this plug-in. Where can I get it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> GF
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 7, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Patrick,
>>>>>>>> I downloaded Klink's map for BCF2000, but didn't get round to 
>>>>>>>> studying what it controls.
>>>>>>>> Also, which variation of Klink's map  you get depends on which 
>>>>>>>> forum thread you go to; and it never seems to be finished, there's 
>>>>>>>> a later version every time I go to the Cockos forums.
>>>>>>>> Did you get enough documentation to understand what it controls?
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Indi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2013 4:47 PM, Patrick Perdue wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I'm using the Mackie protocol with my Nanokontrol, and Klinke's 
>>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>>> surface plugin, which offers a better implementation of Mackie 
>>>>>>>>> Control
>>>>>>>>> than the stock Reaper support.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2013 4:23 PM, Gordon Kent wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> The only one I've gotten to work reliably is the frontier designs
>>>>>>>>>> tranzport, which isn't really a surface.  Make sure the control 
>>>>>>>>>> midi
>>>>>>>>>> input and output of whatever surface you are trying to use is set 
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> control only in reaper. I may have gotten my alesis master 
>>>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>>>> working, I don't remember, but it would have been with the mackie
>>>>>>>>>> protycol.  I forget which mode I had to put the surface in, e.g. 
>>>>>>>>>> cubase,
>>>>>>>>>> sonar, pro tools, etc.
>>>>>>>>>> Gord
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Goldfinga Productions
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 1:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the behringer BCF2000
>>>>>>>>>> controlsurface, but have a few questions
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have three control surfaces, none of them want to play friendly 
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> reaper. Which control protocol should I be using? And then I'm 
>>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>>> have to figure out how to get each controller to activate that
>>>>>>>>>> particular protocol.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> GF
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 7, 2013, at 9:02 AM, Patrick Perdue <patrick at pdaudio.net> 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't have  a BCF2000 yet. I have a Korg NanoKotrol. To do 
>>>>>>>>>>> what you
>>>>>>>>>>> describe, you'd have to use two profiles from the controller 
>>>>>>>>>>> itself,
>>>>>>>>>>> one that acts as a standard control surface for track pan, 
>>>>>>>>>>> level,
>>>>>>>>>>> mute/solo/arm, transport, etc. and another that sends out a 
>>>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>>> different set of CC values for something like a generic 
>>>>>>>>>>> button/knob
>>>>>>>>>>> box for effects. Bad things happen if you try using the 
>>>>>>>>>>> Nanokontrol to
>>>>>>>>>>> manipulate effects when it's set up as a Mackie Universal 
>>>>>>>>>>> Control
>>>>>>>>>>> emulator, and I assume any other controller using the Mackie 
>>>>>>>>>>> Universal
>>>>>>>>>>> Control protocol would have similar issues. Unfortunately, the
>>>>>>>>>>> NanoKontrol editor, necessary to make this a bit easier by 
>>>>>>>>>>> creating
>>>>>>>>>>> scenes on the controller's flash, thus making things a lot 
>>>>>>>>>>> easier, is
>>>>>>>>>>> 100% inaccessible. So, at the moment, the only way I can do this
>>>>>>>>>>> reliably is to clear the settings on the controller, which 
>>>>>>>>>>> defaults to
>>>>>>>>>>> sending midi CC values starting at 1 all on channel 1, when I 
>>>>>>>>>>> want to
>>>>>>>>>>> use it for controlling effect
>>>>>>>>>> s, then pressing the key combination to get it into "Sonar mode," 
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> Mackie Control Universal mode, for actually acting as a control 
>>>>>>>>>> surface.
>>>>>>>>>> What I eventually want to do is get something like a BCF2000, 
>>>>>>>>>> dedicate
>>>>>>>>>> it for track stuff, then use the NanoKontrol as a dedicated box 
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> controlling plugin parameters. Lots of people are doing this with 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> BCF2000 and a BCR2000, which is all rotary encoders and buttons, 
>>>>>>>>>> whereas
>>>>>>>>>> the BCF2000 has flying faders. The BCR2000 has more available 
>>>>>>>>>> controls,
>>>>>>>>>> but the Nanokontrol is a lot cheaper, and will serve just as well 
>>>>>>>>>> for my
>>>>>>>>>> purposes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am, however, frustrated by the lack of access to automation. 
>>>>>>>>>>> Once
>>>>>>>>>>> you've created envelope points, you're stuck with them, unless 
>>>>>>>>>>> you can
>>>>>>>>>>> still get to them in the undo history. If you can see, you can 
>>>>>>>>>>> re-draw
>>>>>>>>>>> envelope curves after they've been created, but with ReaAccess, 
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> much to be done. A fix was promised in the never to be released 
>>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>>> version of ReaAccess, of course, as well as a way to create, 
>>>>>>>>>>> edit and
>>>>>>>>>>> remove automation from a keyboard, without the need for a 
>>>>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>>>>> surface at all., I.E. the way JSonar does it. I have faked my 
>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>> around that by overlapping items with the same material, panning 
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> changing levels of each, then overlapping the items as necessary 
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> create envelopes, fades, linear panning, etc. without the use of 
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> control surface, and it does work, though it's pretty hacky.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/6/2013 10:06 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> This sounds like mapping surface controls to control the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> parameter of a
>>>>>>>>>>>> particular effect on a particular track.
>>>>>>>>>>>> IS that right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose you wanted to assign some knob to the volume of a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> track, not an
>>>>>>>>>>>> effect parameter.  How would you do that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex H."
>>>>>>>>>>>> <linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 8:33 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the behringer BCF2000 
>>>>>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>>>>>> surface, but have a few questions
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> He means that in the FX window you can assign a parameter to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> button/pot using MIDI learn, and set up custom mappings to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> suit your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> workflow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/6/13, Justin Thornton <drummer060891 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what do you mean when you say "click on Param in the effects 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> routing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just a little confused
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 6, 2013, at 9:10 AM, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> click on Param in the effects routing page
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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