[RWP] considering purchasing the behringerBCF2000controlsurface, but have a few questions

Derek Lane derek at pdaudio.net
Wed May 8 16:37:38 EDT 2013 

Press alt+shift+p for the peak inspector, set the tracks you want to moniter 
and/or the master as well, and enjoy.
Also consider the fact that the context menus are broken with reaper 4. 
Fine if you're doing things where no routing is required, but with anything 
involving more than 2 channels/sends, etc. forget it


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Colin McDonald" <blulemon at telus.net>
To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the 
behringerBCF2000controlsurface,but have a few questions


> I'm not sure there is much about reaper that is inaccessible with 
> ReaAccess.
> Beyond graphs which are not accessible anywhere.
> The fact that reaper doesn't support control surfaces very well is not an 
> accessibility issue because the software simply can't do it.  It's not an 
> issue of it being able to do it, and we just can't access that part of it.
>
> I am in agreement about working with reaper, however, I think it's more 
> productive to identify the areas that need the most work for 
> accessibility, and along with that, identify areas that we would like to 
> see improvement with the basic software.
>
> It's keyboard short cut heavy I know, but you can do practically anything 
> the program can do using a screen reader.
> The one thing that is a big thing for me is the lack of an average peak 
> meter reading that is accessible.  IE, something that will tell you what 
> the average peak level of a given track, or the master track is.  J and K 
> and shift J and K give you track and master peaks, but not average 
> peaks...and as soon as you pause the audio, it loses the ability to read 
> that information.
> So, you can very quickly hit shift J or shift K for left and right while 
> the audio is playing, but you'll never really get a true peak reading or 
> an average peak reading.
> This is useful when finishing a project so that you don't exceed a given 
> level etc.
> The obvious work around is using a limiter and setting the threshhold etc, 
> but if you don't wish to have the other elements that a limiter puts into 
> the audio, then it's not an option.
> There is another way if I recall and that is to export the audio scope 
> information to a text file and read it separately.
> I think that is a reaper function, though that might have been audacity.
> I also wonder if a braille display would show more dynamic information 
> like peak readings and so on where a screen reader struggles with 
> constantly changing information like that.
>
> Shrug, like I said, there ain't much about reaper that is inaccessible, or 
> that doesn't have a perfectly workable work around.
>
> regards
> Colin
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Goldfinga Productions" <goldfingas at gmail.com>
> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 12:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the 
> behringerBCF2000controlsurface, but have a few questions
>
>
>>I don't have not one problem paying a developer for their time. I run a 
>>recording studio As well, and know that that is what pays the bills. The 
>>money was not the issue, I just was wondering if anyone knew anyone who 
>>was interested in working on the project. I am not one of those people who 
>>expects something for nothing, people like that irritate me. But anyway, 
>>this is not a list for bashing the less fortunate or anything like that. 
>>The question still stands, does anyone know of anyone who may be 
>>interested in working on a new accessibility project for reaper. Reaper is 
>>very open source, and I'm quite sure that if we put the right person on 
>>the job, We may be able to advance musically as a community. Right now, 
>>our options are very limited as far as digital audio workstation software. 
>>We have limited accessibility to several programs, and at the end of the 
>>day, we never can get the total idea down without jumping through hoops, 
>>for using several pieces of software to complete one task. I have one 
>>person who may be interested in looking at reaper and how we can make it 
>>accessible, we'll see where that goes. But if anyone knows any developers 
>>who are looking for something interesting to get into, let's try to get 
>>this thing going again.
>>
>> Please ignore any spelling errors or typos in this message, I am using 
>> dictation. LOL
>>
>> GF
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 8, 2013, at 11:47 AM, "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey there are hungry programmers out there, you got the money, they got 
>>> the time.
>>>
>>> That's what I did to get nvda to work better with sonar since I was sick 
>>> of jaws quirks and bloat.
>>>
>>> These big companies want thousands just to even look at things, but 
>>> you'd be supprised what you can do one on one with someone.
>>>
>>> Problem is most blindies want everything for nothin'.
>>>
>>> And I understnad, many of them are flat broke.
>>>
>>> But just like we like to get paid for our studio chops and gig time, 
>>> programmers are the same way, they got to eat too.
>>>
>>> I was very fortunate to find the guy I did who is a good musician and a 
>>> programmer too.
>>>
>>> It only takes money honey.
>>> ha ha.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Goldfinga Productions" 
>>> <goldfingas at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 10:31 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the behringer 
>>> BCF2000controlsurface, but have a few questions
>>>
>>>
>>>> That is the first thing I did. It's always a lot faster to get the file 
>>>> from someone who Artie has it though. It's all good, I'll get my hands 
>>>> on it. LOL. Thanks for the info though. I wonder if we can get some 
>>>> people interested in creating a new accessible method for using reaper. 
>>>> We probably wouldn't be having all these control surface problems if we 
>>>> could get access to newer versions of reaper that have better control 
>>>> surface support.
>>>>
>>>> GF
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 8, 2013, at 11:00 AM, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As usual; google the words cockos reaper klink's plug for BCF2000.
>>>>> If you include the word cockos you don't get all the grim reaper hits, 
>>>>> only the cockos forums; and even if I didn't spell Herr Klink's name 
>>>>> correctly, it's close enough to get hits on several forum threads with 
>>>>> download links to all about Klink's plug, and documentation on how to 
>>>>> use it to control Reaper.
>>>>> I'm amazed that Patrick made the plug work with his Korg MicroKontrol 
>>>>> instead of the Behringer BCF2000.
>>>>> There is another control map for Reaper and the BCF2000 that is set up 
>>>>> like the Behringer factory control maps.
>>>>> It has its own website, and it's free.
>>>>> I'll try to find a link to that one if you want to try it.
>>>>> Indi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/7/2013 11:42 PM, Goldfinga Productions wrote:
>>>>>> I will have to check out this plug-in. Where can I get it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> GF
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 7, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Patrick,
>>>>>>> I downloaded Klink's map for BCF2000, but didn't get round to 
>>>>>>> studying what it controls.
>>>>>>> Also, which variation of Klink's map  you get depends on which forum 
>>>>>>> thread you go to; and it never seems to be finished, there's a later 
>>>>>>> version every time I go to the Cockos forums.
>>>>>>> Did you get enough documentation to understand what it controls?
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Indi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/7/2013 4:47 PM, Patrick Perdue wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'm using the Mackie protocol with my Nanokontrol, and Klinke's 
>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>> surface plugin, which offers a better implementation of Mackie 
>>>>>>>> Control
>>>>>>>> than the stock Reaper support.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2013 4:23 PM, Gordon Kent wrote:
>>>>>>>>> The only one I've gotten to work reliably is the frontier designs
>>>>>>>>> tranzport, which isn't really a surface.  Make sure the control 
>>>>>>>>> midi
>>>>>>>>> input and output of whatever surface you are trying to use is set 
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> control only in reaper. I may have gotten my alesis master control
>>>>>>>>> working, I don't remember, but it would have been with the mackie
>>>>>>>>> protycol.  I forget which mode I had to put the surface in, e.g. 
>>>>>>>>> cubase,
>>>>>>>>> sonar, pro tools, etc.
>>>>>>>>> Gord
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Goldfinga Productions
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 1:40 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the behringer BCF2000
>>>>>>>>> controlsurface, but have a few questions
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have three control surfaces, none of them want to play friendly 
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> reaper. Which control protocol should I be using? And then I'm 
>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>> have to figure out how to get each controller to activate that
>>>>>>>>> particular protocol.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> GF
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 7, 2013, at 9:02 AM, Patrick Perdue <patrick at pdaudio.net> 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't have  a BCF2000 yet. I have a Korg NanoKotrol. To do what 
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> describe, you'd have to use two profiles from the controller 
>>>>>>>>>> itself,
>>>>>>>>>> one that acts as a standard control surface for track pan, level,
>>>>>>>>>> mute/solo/arm, transport, etc. and another that sends out a 
>>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>> different set of CC values for something like a generic 
>>>>>>>>>> button/knob
>>>>>>>>>> box for effects. Bad things happen if you try using the 
>>>>>>>>>> Nanokontrol to
>>>>>>>>>> manipulate effects when it's set up as a Mackie Universal Control
>>>>>>>>>> emulator, and I assume any other controller using the Mackie 
>>>>>>>>>> Universal
>>>>>>>>>> Control protocol would have similar issues. Unfortunately, the
>>>>>>>>>> NanoKontrol editor, necessary to make this a bit easier by 
>>>>>>>>>> creating
>>>>>>>>>> scenes on the controller's flash, thus making things a lot 
>>>>>>>>>> easier, is
>>>>>>>>>> 100% inaccessible. So, at the moment, the only way I can do this
>>>>>>>>>> reliably is to clear the settings on the controller, which 
>>>>>>>>>> defaults to
>>>>>>>>>> sending midi CC values starting at 1 all on channel 1, when I 
>>>>>>>>>> want to
>>>>>>>>>> use it for controlling effect
>>>>>>>>> s, then pressing the key combination to get it into "Sonar mode," 
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> Mackie Control Universal mode, for actually acting as a control 
>>>>>>>>> surface.
>>>>>>>>> What I eventually want to do is get something like a BCF2000, 
>>>>>>>>> dedicate
>>>>>>>>> it for track stuff, then use the NanoKontrol as a dedicated box 
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> controlling plugin parameters. Lots of people are doing this with 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> BCF2000 and a BCR2000, which is all rotary encoders and buttons, 
>>>>>>>>> whereas
>>>>>>>>> the BCF2000 has flying faders. The BCR2000 has more available 
>>>>>>>>> controls,
>>>>>>>>> but the Nanokontrol is a lot cheaper, and will serve just as well 
>>>>>>>>> for my
>>>>>>>>> purposes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am, however, frustrated by the lack of access to automation. 
>>>>>>>>>> Once
>>>>>>>>>> you've created envelope points, you're stuck with them, unless 
>>>>>>>>>> you can
>>>>>>>>>> still get to them in the undo history. If you can see, you can 
>>>>>>>>>> re-draw
>>>>>>>>>> envelope curves after they've been created, but with ReaAccess, 
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> much to be done. A fix was promised in the never to be released 
>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>> version of ReaAccess, of course, as well as a way to create, edit 
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> remove automation from a keyboard, without the need for a control
>>>>>>>>>> surface at all., I.E. the way JSonar does it. I have faked my way
>>>>>>>>>> around that by overlapping items with the same material, panning 
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> changing levels of each, then overlapping the items as necessary 
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> create envelopes, fades, linear panning, etc. without the use of 
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> control surface, and it does work, though it's pretty hacky.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/6/2013 10:06 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> This sounds like mapping surface controls to control the 
>>>>>>>>>>> parameter of a
>>>>>>>>>>> particular effect on a particular track.
>>>>>>>>>>> IS that right?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose you wanted to assign some knob to the volume of a track, 
>>>>>>>>>>> not an
>>>>>>>>>>> effect parameter.  How would you do that?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex H."
>>>>>>>>>>> <linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 8:33 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] considering purchasing the behringer BCF2000 
>>>>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>>>>> surface, but have a few questions
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> He means that in the FX window you can assign a parameter to a
>>>>>>>>>>>> button/pot using MIDI learn, and set up custom mappings to suit 
>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>> workflow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/6/13, Justin Thornton <drummer060891 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what do you mean when you say "click on Param in the effects 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> routing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> page"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just a little confused
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 6, 2013, at 9:10 AM, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> click on Param in the effects routing page
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
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