[RWP] Automation
Derek Lane
derek at pdaudio.net
Tue Jun 11 01:52:54 EDT 2013
You have to pause the project, not stop it, should you want to make a
drastic change.
There is a bug in reaaccess which keeps it from announcing automated
parameter changes.
The next version was going to address automation, but we know how that went.
On 6/10/2013 9:56 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
> So, Chris. How does this work? I'm missing something. In latch mode,
> alt up and down arrow don't appear to do anything at all when
> stopped. As I understand this, you stop the transport, go to latch
> mode, and then change the volumen somehow, and start playing to record
> the snapshot.
> But, I'm botthered by the volume not appearing to change.
> If it could change, then you would not hear the effect you have until
> you start playing. If you don't like, I presume you stop, control+z,
> and just repeat the procedure.
> But, if alt up and down arrow are not changing the volume, how could
> you gell whetehr or not you are actually doing anything different?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 4:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>
>
>> Finally got it to work.
>>
>> I could have sworn I tried this in 3.78 maybe this is something they
>> introduced in 4 will have to try it with 3.78.
>>
>> Using 4.25 in latch mode and it works like snapshots in sonar the
>> only thing is you can't tell where your volume is set.
>>
>> Because in latch mode the alt up arrow doesn't do anything, or rather
>> it doesn't read the values your changing to.
>>
>> So you got to do it by ear.
>>
>> Since I got 4 machines fried it messed up all my experimental stuff
>> going on,
>> so I just got reaper back on here to try stuff.
>>
>> If latch mode makes me not have to fill out automation envelopes to
>> the end, I might come to grips with reapers automation boy howdy.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Lane" <derek at pdaudio.net>
>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 9:47 AM
>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>
>>
>>> It can even be done from the qwerty keyboard. Set a track to latch,
>>> play for a bit, pause the project, make a change, and press play
>>> again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 8, 2013, at 4:20 AM, "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've not gotten that to work yet.
>>>>
>>>> But it's good to know it can be done.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Lane" <derek at pdaudio.net>
>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 2:55 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You can do that though. Just pause the project, make your move
>>>>> and resume playback.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 7, 2013, at 9:29 PM, "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It depends on the song, but some tracks really are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And if your fx are in the right place, and your just turning the
>>>>>> volume up and down, it won't change how hard your pushing a
>>>>>> compressor or whatever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unless your talking about mixing in to a comp on the master bus
>>>>>> which is a good idea because it'll make you make better choices
>>>>>> when automating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's like the compresssor is pushing back at you, they talked
>>>>>> about that over on home recording show, those guys work a lot and
>>>>>> know their shit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I feel like my path of learning kind of took the same as theirs
>>>>>> did, but I picked up a whole lot of stuff I wasn't doing before
>>>>>> but now I do, a little more paralel mixing and processing, and
>>>>>> more use of spaces, like more than one reverb in a mix, well, I
>>>>>> guess I'd done that with reverb on guitars, but not as a global
>>>>>> effect so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But volume changes, sometimes they aren't needed at all but
>>>>>> remember those old days when you had 5 people at the board all
>>>>>> with hands on faders assigned to do moves at certain places?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being able to subtly change the volume and get a vocal track nice
>>>>>> and even without having to depend on a compressor so much is just
>>>>>> way cool, especially on a classical or jazz track where a
>>>>>> compressor will not be desired so much or very minimal at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So yes, automation is a foundational thing for me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also with midi, doing things like fading strings, or swelling
>>>>>> orgns, you sure don't want the daw yanking your values back to
>>>>>> last known value after you did something.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess that's where I got used to the leave it where I set it
>>>>>> till I tell you to move way of working because
>>>>>> I started off doing mostly midi, and that's how midi controlers act.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But yes I hear what your saying,
>>>>>> there are mixes where not much automation is needed and it just
>>>>>> sounds fine the way it is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do stuff like automated mutes too, like when I'm using
>>>>>> auto-tune, I'll quickly sub in the auto-tuned track when I want a
>>>>>> phrase or work to be auto-tuned and then the un-processed track
>>>>>> when I want it to be heard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And you can't tell when the tracks are swapping.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's the beauty of being able to get just in the right place
>>>>>> stop the transport and put in a single move.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I sure wish reaper would do that for us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe some day right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, what reaper does, it does well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to give it the nod for cross-fading and item based editing
>>>>>> for sure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sonar atleast as of 8.5.3 was kind of behind in that area, but x2
>>>>>> is supposed to really have upped the game with take lanes, and
>>>>>> improved clip editing, and blah blah blah.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But of course they broke the ui again, so we're back at square 1
>>>>>> or maybe 2 or 3 'grin'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Chesworth"
>>>>>> <scottchesworth at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 6:53 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For a really dramatic change though, I'd instinctively reach for
>>>>>>> a new
>>>>>>> track regardless of what DAW I'm in at the time because chances are
>>>>>>> that big change would screw with whichever plugins were processing
>>>>>>> that track. Are your mixes really as full of automation as this
>>>>>>> conversation makes them seem? I can't recall hearing your work
>>>>>>> off the
>>>>>>> top of my head, but I'd like to be able to put some sound to the
>>>>>>> theory. Not doubting your approach, it's just so different from
>>>>>>> my own
>>>>>>> that it sparks curiosity. For me, automation has always just been a
>>>>>>> sweetener or a few finishing touches, rather than a building
>>>>>>> block or
>>>>>>> a thing that holds the mix together. Probably ended up that way
>>>>>>> because automation always felt a bit clunky and fragile in the DAW
>>>>>>> where I learned the ropes, plus I'm not really a mixer at heart.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/7/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> The only problem with that is that if you do a big change it
>>>>>>>> sounds abrupt
>>>>>>>> and you have to mess with the fade ins and outs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can't do little changes to get to the big change, a little
>>>>>>>> at a time
>>>>>>>> without splitting lots of items out and that get's messy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But it's doable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And you do have the fade in and fade out values on the items to
>>>>>>>> work with.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One nice thing about splitting items and setting different
>>>>>>>> volumes for them
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is you can change it easily without having to draw a curve
>>>>>>>> again, just to
>>>>>>>> change the value if you thought that part needed to be a bit
>>>>>>>> louder or
>>>>>>>> softer or whatever.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In sonar, if you mess something up, sometimes you can delete
>>>>>>>> it, but usually
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it means scratching the automation and starting over again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So splitting items can help work flow in this regard, you can
>>>>>>>> audition a
>>>>>>>> change and then change it and not have to worry about turning
>>>>>>>> off automation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and such, or previously written automation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 12:40 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, I like your trick of splitting items, then automating
>>>>>>>>> just the
>>>>>>>>> selected item.
>>>>>>>>> Indi
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2013 7:11 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> To rename items, I move to them and then hit Shift+F2. Not
>>>>>>>>>> sure if
>>>>>>>>>> there's a separate field for comments or annotations like
>>>>>>>>>> there is in
>>>>>>>>>> some other DAWs, so I just use this and keep the names brief and
>>>>>>>>>> standardised.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hth
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/13, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't tried automating items yet; just tracks.
>>>>>>>>>>> I'll need to search in actions for set volume for selected
>>>>>>>>>>> item.
>>>>>>>>>>> How do you rename items, or provide comments that can be
>>>>>>>>>>> read when you
>>>>>>>>>>> select an item?
>>>>>>>>>>> Those would be great reminders on what automation you made
>>>>>>>>>>> at that
>>>>>>>>>>> point.
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> Indi
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2013 4:23 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't seen the behaviour you're seeing in Sonar
>>>>>>>>>>>> anywhere else that
>>>>>>>>>>>> I can think of man, and tbh I can't quite fathom why it'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> be useful to
>>>>>>>>>>>> have that occurring by default. Perhaps we approach automation
>>>>>>>>>>>> differently. In my world, the 3 most common examples of
>>>>>>>>>>>> automation are
>>>>>>>>>>>> little nudges of volume to draw focus to or divert focus
>>>>>>>>>>>> away from
>>>>>>>>>>>> aspects of a track, muting to reign in excessive something
>>>>>>>>>>>> or other,
>>>>>>>>>>>> or more rhythmical movements to make fx into an actual
>>>>>>>>>>>> part. Point
>>>>>>>>>>>> being that the track at it's normal level and panning
>>>>>>>>>>>> position will
>>>>>>>>>>>> serve its purpose untouched for the vast majority of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> song by
>>>>>>>>>>>> design. When I make a slight touch up, that's where I want
>>>>>>>>>>>> the track
>>>>>>>>>>>> to go back to straight afterward. The way you're used to
>>>>>>>>>>>> working, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> assume you'd have to have two snapshots, one to make
>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever tweak
>>>>>>>>>>>> you want and another to get the track back to its previous
>>>>>>>>>>>> state. That
>>>>>>>>>>>> feels counterintuitive here!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You do realise you can automate items as well, right? So if
>>>>>>>>>>>> you want
>>>>>>>>>>>> to bump up the guitars by 3 DB in the last chorus and want
>>>>>>>>>>>> them to
>>>>>>>>>>>> stay that way without sitting through all 4 repetitions of
>>>>>>>>>>>> it, split
>>>>>>>>>>>> an item, raise item volume by 3 db and boom, job done. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> think working
>>>>>>>>>>>> in terms of items is probably about as close as you'll get to
>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshots. I like to name items descriptively as I go when
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm doing
>>>>>>>>>>>> this stuff, so that if I come back to a project after
>>>>>>>>>>>> months away I'll
>>>>>>>>>>>> have some reminders of the method behind the madness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts, maybe they'll help.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would think that making an automation move and having it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stay where
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> left it would be way more conducive to workflow, that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> comeing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> behind your shoulder and moving your knobs back where you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> left them
>>>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you made a change everytime.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But that's just me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't want my daw second guessing me, if I want my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> volume or pan or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever to change again, I'd like to do it myself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Having to select time areas is another step or filling
>>>>>>>>>>>>> envelops,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sould be just as simple as applications key and s and you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> got a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshot,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and trying to get in between words and very small moves at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> precise
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spots
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ard to do unless you can stop the transport in a specific
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So as far as I'm concerned spnar has it on automation for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the way I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> work, it doesn't get simpler than that, but reaper has it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for item
>>>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>>>> editing and cross fading and such.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just think if you had a 100 tracks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> project and you did automation on all of them, you'd have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do fills
>>>>>>>>>>>>> between every move you made, yikes,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's just crazy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have dozens of automation moves,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> say in a vocal track,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a electrical fill track, and doing fills between each
>>>>>>>>>>>>> move wow,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems so counter work flow, but really, is that the way
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's done on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> protools and such?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if any other daw does it the way sonar does it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> leaves it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> left it till you say change it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That just makes so much sense to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But I've been using sonar since for ever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "TheOreoMonster" <monkeypusher69 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 7:41 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You wouldn't like it lol. Its similar to reaper where i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> haven't found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshot like there is in Sonar. The way it works is u
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enable write,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play the track from the beginning. to set that level or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pan etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing is u just have to engage the transport in order to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for that entire track. Then you move to the part where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> song
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> u want to actually put in the automated change and select
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frame.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make the changes to volume or pan or etc, then let the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transport
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the end of that selection. Once you do that it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automate a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just that area thats selected and jump back to the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> values once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plays past that selected area. So if u want to keep that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> end
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you need to use the fill automation to the end of track
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reaper.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In all honesty though this work flow in reaper and PT is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a lot more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conducive to my workflow and the way most engineers i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hear of doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automation use it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 6, 2013, at 5:39 AM, "Chris Belle"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gTell me about it, try teaching 3 screen-readers and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remebering ct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this but jsonar does that, and your in to protools a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I ain't got there yet, but am making quite a bit of leg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reaper.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not offering to teach reaper yet unless asked, I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more second nature with it, also I don't this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there'll be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> business over here even at my low rates because of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set, but maybe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Considering sonar and reaper are both
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several versions back for us, it's all a compromise and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a big
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cludge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But I do like the way reaper edits audio and does cross
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fading ans
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How nice is automation for us in pt compared to reaper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or sonar?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Kent"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <dbmusic at cybernex.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 6:00 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they do when you are in the track properties dialog. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> realized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I was confusing it with pro tools, which does work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changing effects parameters with the wiz wheels. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pt, some of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really change in tiny increments when using the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keyboard with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the mac while using the whiz wheel lets you run
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through it. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> haven't used reaper in a while, and I get confused with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different daw software packages around these days.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gord
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Westphal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 5:24 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gord!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wow! How do you assign them to move the knobs for Pan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Volume?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ciao!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> RWP mailing list
>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RWP mailing list
>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RWP mailing list
> RWP at reaaccess.com
> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
More information about the Rwp
mailing list