[RWP] Automation

Sat Jun 8 09:25:41 EDT 2013

Me too.
I like everything on its own track, for clarity's sake.
I don't know what the difference would be between doing a snapshot and 
Scott's splitting an item; then automating the selected item separately 
from items in the rest of the track.
I probably would cut that item to be automated to it's own track; then I 
could label its track with short comments on the automation.
I love reaper's tracks.
They consume no significant CPU load, so always want separate tracks.
I've not got into lanes, though I've been studying it and thinking about 
what the advantages of lanes could be.
There's a crossfader on my PCR-300 control surface to assign to 2 
different actions; or it could be the same action applied to 2 different 
tracks.
The crossfade fader lets you manually decide how fast the crossfade will 
be; or one could do a similar thing with 2 adjacent items with different 
volumes; pans; whatever;  and let Reaper crossfade between them.
I know it's there, but haven't learned how to set up how fast; what 
curves; etcetera, the Reaper crossfades between items  would use.
Indi
On 6/7/2013 7:53 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
> For a really dramatic change though, I'd instinctively reach for a new
> track regardless of what DAW I'm in at the time because chances are
> that big change would screw with whichever plugins were processing
> that track. Are your mixes really as full of automation as this
> conversation makes them seem? I can't recall hearing your work off the
> top of my head, but I'd like to be able to put some sound to the
> theory. Not doubting your approach, it's just so different from my own
> that it sparks curiosity. For me, automation has always just been a
> sweetener or a few finishing touches, rather than a building block or
> a thing that holds the mix together. Probably ended up that way
> because automation always felt a bit clunky and fragile in the DAW
> where I learned the ropes, plus I'm not really a mixer at heart.
>
> Scott
>
> On 6/7/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> The only problem with that is that if you do a big change it sounds abrupt
>> and you have to mess with the fade ins and outs.
>>
>> You can't do little changes to get to the big change, a little at a time
>> without splitting lots of items out and that get's messy.
>>
>> But it's doable.
>>
>> And you do have the fade in and fade out values on the items to work with.
>>
>> One nice thing about splitting items and setting different volumes for them
>>
>> is you can change it easily without having to draw a curve again, just to
>> change the value if you thought that part needed to be a bit louder or
>> softer or whatever.
>>
>> In sonar, if you mess something up, sometimes you can delete it, but usually
>>
>> it means scratching the automation and starting over again.
>>
>> So splitting items can help work flow in this regard, you can audition a
>> change and then change it and not have to worry about turning off automation
>>
>> and such, or previously written automation.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 12:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>
>>
>>> Thanks, I like your trick of splitting items, then automating just the
>>> selected item.
>>> Indi
>>>
>>> On 6/7/2013 7:11 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
>>>> To rename items, I move to them and then hit Shift+F2. Not sure if
>>>> there's a separate field for comments or annotations like there is in
>>>> some other DAWs, so I just use this and keep the names brief and
>>>> standardised.
>>>>
>>>> Hth
>>>>
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On 6/7/13, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>> I haven't tried automating items yet; just tracks.
>>>>> I'll need to search in actions for set volume for selected item.
>>>>> How do you rename items, or provide comments that can be read when you
>>>>> select an item?
>>>>> Those would be great reminders on what automation you made at that
>>>>> point.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Indi
>>>>> On 6/7/2013 4:23 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
>>>>>> I haven't seen the behaviour you're seeing in Sonar anywhere else that
>>>>>> I can think of man, and tbh I can't quite fathom why it'd be useful to
>>>>>> have that occurring by default. Perhaps we approach automation
>>>>>> differently. In my world, the 3 most common examples of automation are
>>>>>> little nudges of volume to draw focus to or divert focus away from
>>>>>> aspects of a track, muting to reign in excessive something or other,
>>>>>> or more rhythmical movements to make fx into an actual part. Point
>>>>>> being that the track at it's normal level and panning position will
>>>>>> serve its purpose untouched for the vast majority of the song by
>>>>>> design. When I make a slight touch up, that's where I want the track
>>>>>> to go back to straight afterward. The way you're used to working, I
>>>>>> assume you'd have to have two snapshots, one to make whatever tweak
>>>>>> you want and another to get the track back to its previous state. That
>>>>>> feels counterintuitive here!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You do realise you can automate items as well, right? So if you want
>>>>>> to bump up the guitars by 3 DB in the last chorus and want them to
>>>>>> stay that way without sitting through all 4 repetitions of it, split
>>>>>> an item, raise item volume by 3 db and boom, job done. I think working
>>>>>> in terms of items is probably about as close as you'll get to
>>>>>> snapshots. I like to  name items descriptively as I go when I'm doing
>>>>>> this stuff, so that if I come back to a project after months away I'll
>>>>>> have some reminders of the method behind the madness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just some thoughts, maybe they'll help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/7/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> I would think that making an automation move and having it stay where
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> left it would be way more conducive to workflow, that's like someone
>>>>>>> comeing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> behind your shoulder and moving your knobs back where you left them
>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>> you made a change everytime.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But that's just me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't want my daw second guessing me, if I want my volume or pan or
>>>>>>> whatever to change again, I'd like to do it myself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having to select time areas is another step or filling envelops,
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> sould be just as simple as applications key and s and you got a
>>>>>>> snapshot,
>>>>>>> and trying to get in between words and very small moves at precise
>>>>>>> spots
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ard to do unless you can stop the transport in a specific spot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So as far as I'm concerned spnar has it on automation for the way I
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> work, it doesn't get simpler than that, but reaper has it for item
>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>> editing and cross fading and such.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just think if you had a 100 tracks.
>>>>>>> project and you did automation on all of them, you'd have to do fills
>>>>>>> between every move you made, yikes,
>>>>>>> that's just crazy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have dozens of automation moves,
>>>>>>> say in a vocal track,
>>>>>>> or a electrical fill track, and doing fills between each move wow,
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> seems so counter work flow, but really, is that the way it's done on
>>>>>>> protools and such?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder if any other daw does it the way sonar does it, leaves it
>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> left it till you say change it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That just makes so much sense to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I've been using sonar since for ever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "TheOreoMonster" <monkeypusher69 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 7:41 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You wouldn't like it lol. Its similar to reaper where i haven't found
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> snapshot like there is in Sonar. The way it works is u enable write,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> play the track from the beginning.  to set that level or pan etc.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thing is  u just have to engage the transport in order to set
>>>>>>>> automatation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for that entire track. Then you move to the part   where ever in the
>>>>>>>> song
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> u want to actually put in the automated change and select that time
>>>>>>>> frame.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> make the changes to volume or pan or etc, then let the transport
>>>>>>>> play
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> the end of that selection. Once you do that  it will automate a
>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> just that area thats selected and jump back to the other values once
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> plays past that selected area. So if u want to keep that change to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> end
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you need to use the fill automation to the end of track similar to
>>>>>>>> reaper.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In all honesty though this work flow in reaper and PT is a lot more
>>>>>>>> conducive to my workflow and the way most engineers i hear of doing
>>>>>>>> automation use it.
>>>>>>>> On Jun 6, 2013, at 5:39 AM, "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> gTell me about it, try teaching 3 screen-readers and remebering ct
>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>> this but jsonar does that, and your in to protools a bit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I ain't got there yet, but am making quite a bit of leg up on
>>>>>>>>> reaper.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not offering to teach reaper yet unless asked, I'd like to get
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> little more second nature with it, also I don't this there'll be
>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>> business over here even at my low rates because of the different
>>>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>>> set, but maybe.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Considering sonar and reaper are both
>>>>>>>>> several versions back for us, it's all a compromise and a big
>>>>>>>>> cludge
>>>>>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But I do like the way reaper edits audio and does cross fading ans
>>>>>>>>> such.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How nice is automation for us in pt compared to reaper or sonar?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Kent"
>>>>>>>>> <dbmusic at cybernex.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 6:00 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> they do when you are in the track properties dialog.  I just
>>>>>>>>>> realized
>>>>>>>>>> that I was confusing it with pro tools, which does work well with
>>>>>>>>>> changing effects parameters with the wiz wheels.  In pt, some of
>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>> really change in tiny increments when using the keyboard with
>>>>>>>>>> voice
>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> on the mac while using the whiz wheel lets you run through it.  I
>>>>>>>>>> haven't used reaper in a while, and I get confused with all these
>>>>>>>>>> different daw software packages around these days.
>>>>>>>>>> Gord
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Westphal
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 5:24 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gord!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wow! How do you assign them to move the knobs for Pan and Volume?
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Ciao!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> RWP mailing list
>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RWP mailing list
>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RWP mailing list
> RWP at reaaccess.com
> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>