[RWP] Automation

Chris Belle cb1963 at sbcglobal.net
Sat Jun 8 04:20:30 EDT 2013 

I've not gotten that to work yet.

But it's good to know it can be done.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Derek Lane" <derek at pdaudio.net>
To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation


> You can do that though.  Just pause the project, make your move and resume 
> playback.
>
>
>
> On Jun 7, 2013, at 9:29 PM, "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> It depends on the song, but some tracks really are.
>>
>> And if your fx are in the right place, and your just turning the volume 
>> up and down, it won't change how hard your pushing a compressor or 
>> whatever.
>>
>> Unless your talking about mixing in to a comp on the master bus which is 
>> a good idea because it'll make you make better choices when automating.
>>
>> It's like the compresssor is pushing back at you, they talked about that 
>> over on home recording show, those guys work a lot and know their shit.
>>
>> I feel like my path of learning kind of took the same as theirs did, but 
>> I picked up a whole lot of stuff I wasn't doing before but now I do, a 
>> little more paralel mixing and processing, and more use of spaces, like 
>> more than one reverb in a mix, well, I guess I'd done that with reverb on 
>> guitars, but not as a global effect so far.
>>
>> But volume changes, sometimes they aren't needed at all but remember 
>> those old days when you had 5 people at the board all with hands on 
>> faders assigned to do moves at certain places?
>>
>> Being able to subtly change the volume and get a vocal track nice and 
>> even without having to depend on a compressor so much is just way cool, 
>> especially on a classical or jazz track where a compressor will not be 
>> desired so much or very minimal at all.
>>
>> So yes, automation is a foundational thing for me.
>>
>> Also with midi, doing things like fading strings, or swelling orgns, you 
>> sure don't want the daw yanking your values back to last known value 
>> after you did something.
>>
>> I guess that's where I got used to the leave it where I set it till I 
>> tell you to move way of working because
>> I started off doing mostly midi, and that's how midi controlers act.
>>
>> But yes I hear what your saying,
>> there are mixes where not much automation is needed and it just sounds 
>> fine the way it is.
>>
>> I do stuff like automated mutes too, like when I'm using auto-tune, I'll 
>> quickly sub in the auto-tuned track when I want a phrase or work to be 
>> auto-tuned and then the un-processed track when I want it to be heard.
>>
>> And you can't tell when the tracks are swapping.
>>
>> That's the beauty of being able to get just in the right place stop the 
>> transport and put in a single move.
>>
>> I sure wish reaper would do that for us.
>>
>> Maybe some day right?
>>
>> Well, what reaper does, it does well.
>>
>> I have to give it the nod for cross-fading and item based editing for 
>> sure.
>>
>> Sonar atleast as of 8.5.3 was kind of behind in that area, but x2 is 
>> supposed to really have upped the game with take lanes, and improved clip 
>> editing, and blah blah blah.
>>
>> But of course they broke the ui again, so we're back at square 1 or maybe 
>> 2 or 3 'grin'.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Chesworth" 
>> <scottchesworth at gmail.com>
>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 6:53 PM
>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>
>>
>>> For a really dramatic change though, I'd instinctively reach for a new
>>> track regardless of what DAW I'm in at the time because chances are
>>> that big change would screw with whichever plugins were processing
>>> that track. Are your mixes really as full of automation as this
>>> conversation makes them seem? I can't recall hearing your work off the
>>> top of my head, but I'd like to be able to put some sound to the
>>> theory. Not doubting your approach, it's just so different from my own
>>> that it sparks curiosity. For me, automation has always just been a
>>> sweetener or a few finishing touches, rather than a building block or
>>> a thing that holds the mix together. Probably ended up that way
>>> because automation always felt a bit clunky and fragile in the DAW
>>> where I learned the ropes, plus I'm not really a mixer at heart.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 6/7/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> The only problem with that is that if you do a big change it sounds 
>>>> abrupt
>>>> and you have to mess with the fade ins and outs.
>>>>
>>>> You can't do little changes to get to the big change, a little at a 
>>>> time
>>>> without splitting lots of items out and that get's messy.
>>>>
>>>> But it's doable.
>>>>
>>>> And you do have the fade in and fade out values on the items to work 
>>>> with.
>>>>
>>>> One nice thing about splitting items and setting different volumes for 
>>>> them
>>>>
>>>> is you can change it easily without having to draw a curve again, just 
>>>> to
>>>> change the value if you thought that part needed to be a bit louder or
>>>> softer or whatever.
>>>>
>>>> In sonar, if you mess something up, sometimes you can delete it, but 
>>>> usually
>>>>
>>>> it means scratching the automation and starting over again.
>>>>
>>>> So splitting items can help work flow in this regard, you can audition 
>>>> a
>>>> change and then change it and not have to worry about turning off 
>>>> automation
>>>>
>>>> and such, or previously written automation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 12:40 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, I like your trick of splitting items, then automating just the
>>>>> selected item.
>>>>> Indi
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/7/2013 7:11 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
>>>>>> To rename items, I move to them and then hit Shift+F2. Not sure if
>>>>>> there's a separate field for comments or annotations like there is in
>>>>>> some other DAWs, so I just use this and keep the names brief and
>>>>>> standardised.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hth
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/7/13, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> I haven't tried automating items yet; just tracks.
>>>>>>> I'll need to search in actions for set volume for selected item.
>>>>>>> How do you rename items, or provide comments that can be read when 
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> select an item?
>>>>>>> Those would be great reminders on what automation you made at that
>>>>>>> point.
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Indi
>>>>>>> On 6/7/2013 4:23 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
>>>>>>>> I haven't seen the behaviour you're seeing in Sonar anywhere else 
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> I can think of man, and tbh I can't quite fathom why it'd be useful 
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> have that occurring by default. Perhaps we approach automation
>>>>>>>> differently. In my world, the 3 most common examples of automation 
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> little nudges of volume to draw focus to or divert focus away from
>>>>>>>> aspects of a track, muting to reign in excessive something or 
>>>>>>>> other,
>>>>>>>> or more rhythmical movements to make fx into an actual part. Point
>>>>>>>> being that the track at it's normal level and panning position will
>>>>>>>> serve its purpose untouched for the vast majority of the song by
>>>>>>>> design. When I make a slight touch up, that's where I want the 
>>>>>>>> track
>>>>>>>> to go back to straight afterward. The way you're used to working, I
>>>>>>>> assume you'd have to have two snapshots, one to make whatever tweak
>>>>>>>> you want and another to get the track back to its previous state. 
>>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>>> feels counterintuitive here!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You do realise you can automate items as well, right? So if you 
>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> to bump up the guitars by 3 DB in the last chorus and want them to
>>>>>>>> stay that way without sitting through all 4 repetitions of it, 
>>>>>>>> split
>>>>>>>> an item, raise item volume by 3 db and boom, job done. I think 
>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>> in terms of items is probably about as close as you'll get to
>>>>>>>> snapshots. I like to  name items descriptively as I go when I'm 
>>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>>> this stuff, so that if I come back to a project after months away 
>>>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>> have some reminders of the method behind the madness.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts, maybe they'll help.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 6/7/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I would think that making an automation move and having it stay 
>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> left it would be way more conducive to workflow, that's like 
>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>> comeing
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> behind your shoulder and moving your knobs back where you left 
>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>> you made a change everytime.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But that's just me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't want my daw second guessing me, if I want my volume or pan 
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> whatever to change again, I'd like to do it myself.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Having to select time areas is another step or filling envelops,
>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>> sould be just as simple as applications key and s and you got a
>>>>>>>>> snapshot,
>>>>>>>>> and trying to get in between words and very small moves at precise
>>>>>>>>> spots
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ard to do unless you can stop the transport in a specific spot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So as far as I'm concerned spnar has it on automation for the way 
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> work, it doesn't get simpler than that, but reaper has it for item
>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>> editing and cross fading and such.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just think if you had a 100 tracks.
>>>>>>>>> project and you did automation on all of them, you'd have to do 
>>>>>>>>> fills
>>>>>>>>> between every move you made, yikes,
>>>>>>>>> that's just crazy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have dozens of automation moves,
>>>>>>>>> say in a vocal track,
>>>>>>>>> or a electrical fill track, and doing fills between each move wow,
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> seems so counter work flow, but really, is that the way it's done 
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> protools and such?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wonder if any other daw does it the way sonar does it, leaves it
>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> left it till you say change it?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That just makes so much sense to me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But I've been using sonar since for ever.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "TheOreoMonster" <monkeypusher69 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 7:41 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You wouldn't like it lol. Its similar to reaper where i haven't 
>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> snapshot like there is in Sonar. The way it works is u enable 
>>>>>>>>>> write,
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> play the track from the beginning.  to set that level or pan etc.
>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> thing is  u just have to engage the transport in order to set
>>>>>>>>>> automatation
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> for that entire track. Then you move to the part   where ever in 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> song
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> u want to actually put in the automated change and select that 
>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>> frame.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> make the changes to volume or pan or etc, then let the transport
>>>>>>>>>> play
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> the end of that selection. Once you do that  it will automate a
>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> just that area thats selected and jump back to the other values 
>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> plays past that selected area. So if u want to keep that change 
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> end
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> you need to use the fill automation to the end of track similar 
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> reaper.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In all honesty though this work flow in reaper and PT is a lot 
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> conducive to my workflow and the way most engineers i hear of 
>>>>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>>>>> automation use it.
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 6, 2013, at 5:39 AM, "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> gTell me about it, try teaching 3 screen-readers and remebering 
>>>>>>>>>>> ct
>>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>>> this but jsonar does that, and your in to protools a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I ain't got there yet, but am making quite a bit of leg up on
>>>>>>>>>>> reaper.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not offering to teach reaper yet unless asked, I'd like to 
>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> little more second nature with it, also I don't this there'll be
>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>> business over here even at my low rates because of the different
>>>>>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>>>>> set, but maybe.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Considering sonar and reaper are both
>>>>>>>>>>> several versions back for us, it's all a compromise and a big
>>>>>>>>>>> cludge
>>>>>>>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But I do like the way reaper edits audio and does cross fading 
>>>>>>>>>>> ans
>>>>>>>>>>> such.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> How nice is automation for us in pt compared to reaper or sonar?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Kent"
>>>>>>>>>>> <dbmusic at cybernex.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 6:00 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> they do when you are in the track properties dialog.  I just
>>>>>>>>>>>> realized
>>>>>>>>>>>> that I was confusing it with pro tools, which does work well 
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> changing effects parameters with the wiz wheels.  In pt, some 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>> really change in tiny increments when using the keyboard with
>>>>>>>>>>>> voice
>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> on the mac while using the whiz wheel lets you run through it. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> haven't used reaper in a while, and I get confused with all 
>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>> different daw software packages around these days.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gord
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Westphal
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 5:24 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gord!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wow! How do you assign them to move the knobs for Pan and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Volume?
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ciao!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> RWP mailing list
>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RWP mailing list
>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> RWP mailing list
> RWP at reaaccess.com
> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com

More information about the Rwp mailing list