[RWP] Automation

Fri Jun 7 08:10:55 EDT 2013

Just to add adendum, and not trying to get in to a reaper versus sonar 
argument or anything, just seeing if reaper can do the same thing.

Controler surfaces are nice, but they present their own issues so being able 
to draw curves is how a lot of sighted still do automation and you can get 
down to the exact place, you might not be able to grab a fader that quickly.

But being able to split out an item exactly at a spot in reaper and do a 
volume change on it and them put it back in is good even if you have to work 
on the cross-fade a bit.

And in sonar it's not necessary at all to split anything and I can quickly 
write a series of snapshots to automate a small section from the keyboard, 
and it's easy to map it to a controler or just use the keyboard either just 
as a snapshot or riding the fader with the computer keyboard.

I'd love to be able to do snapshots in reaper without splitting items.

I wonder if sws or the other extensions well, patrick said that with the 
what was going to be the up comming release of reaaccess we were supposed to 
get snapshots but that never happened, but I suppose it would technically be 
possible.

So for that reason, and then midi editing those are the two things that 
would keep me from going reaper full time.

Processing power doesn't matter these days, if you aredoing this seriously 
then having a hotdog computer is just part of the cost of doing business.

For me, it's about work flow and accessibility.

One groovy thing is you get all your automated parameters in one list 
instead of having to swap them out 4 at a time, this is just like the old 
directixer vst wrapper I used to use and still do,
sometimes,
it makes everything show up in one big list, but I haven't tried that under 
w7 yet.

When I get a break, from paid work, I need to try and just make myself do an 
entire project with reaper,
but I have the feeling most reaper users who are doing it for paid work are 
mostly working with audio more than midi.

I could be wrong though.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation

> Yeh, I do know about splitting items.
>
> Thatseems kind of weird to me, having to splice tape when a simple move 
> will fix things, because when you tear a wav apart you have to put it back 
> together, and even though reaper does it nicely with growing edges and 
> such, that's just more work.
>
> When you move faders on a board they stay where you leave them till you 
> move them again, that's what I was geting at.
>
> yes, when you have automation in sonar, you do have to use another 
> snapshot to bring it back to where it was, but I don't want it assumed 
> that's what I want.
>
> And in the midi world, which is where I came up, midi controlers stay 
> where you leave them until you decide to change them again, perhaps since 
> cakewalk was a midi sequencer first, that where it inherited that behavior 
> first, but I really like that method of doing things.
> It was also that way on the old snapshot based boards which used v c a 
> controlers
> and a keyboard before we ever had enveloped based stuff on a computer.
>
> If you mostly deal with audio editing, I can see 2why you might like 
> reaper,
> I remember when we were working together and you asked me about sonar and 
> cross fading and such and I said it wasn't really supported well except in 
> caketalking and even then it was kind of clunky.
>
> I end up exporting stuff to sound forge when I have to do something 
> complex with putting audio back together, and I always use sound on sound 
> so my edges overlap so I don't have to deal with pops and clicks even in 
> sonar, but reaper makes those sort of things very nice.
>
>
> In sonar  I often do little changes with just one word and I can do dozens 
> of automation moves in a vocal track to make it very smooth and to have to 
> cut apart that many phrases is just well, you know it's all down to how 
> you like to work.
>
> I see sonar as superior in automation but reaper superior in item based 
> editing right now.
>
> It's good we have a choice.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Scott Chesworth" <scottchesworth at gmail.com>
> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 3:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>
>
>>I haven't seen the behaviour you're seeing in Sonar anywhere else that
>> I can think of man, and tbh I can't quite fathom why it'd be useful to
>> have that occurring by default. Perhaps we approach automation
>> differently. In my world, the 3 most common examples of automation are
>> little nudges of volume to draw focus to or divert focus away from
>> aspects of a track, muting to reign in excessive something or other,
>> or more rhythmical movements to make fx into an actual part. Point
>> being that the track at it's normal level and panning position will
>> serve its purpose untouched for the vast majority of the song by
>> design. When I make a slight touch up, that's where I want the track
>> to go back to straight afterward. The way you're used to working, I
>> assume you'd have to have two snapshots, one to make whatever tweak
>> you want and another to get the track back to its previous state. That
>> feels counterintuitive here!
>>
>> You do realise you can automate items as well, right? So if you want
>> to bump up the guitars by 3 DB in the last chorus and want them to
>> stay that way without sitting through all 4 repetitions of it, split
>> an item, raise item volume by 3 db and boom, job done. I think working
>> in terms of items is probably about as close as you'll get to
>> snapshots. I like to  name items descriptively as I go when I'm doing
>> this stuff, so that if I come back to a project after months away I'll
>> have some reminders of the method behind the madness.
>>
>> Just some thoughts, maybe they'll help.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> On 6/7/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> I would think that making an automation move and having it stay where 
>>> you
>>> left it would be way more conducive to workflow, that's like someone 
>>> comeing
>>>
>>> behind your shoulder and moving your knobs back where you left them 
>>> after
>>> you made a change everytime.
>>>
>>> But that's just me.
>>>
>>> I don't want my daw second guessing me, if I want my volume or pan or
>>> whatever to change again, I'd like to do it myself.
>>>
>>> Having to select time areas is another step or filling envelops, 
>>> something
>>> sould be just as simple as applications key and s and you got a 
>>> snapshot,
>>> and trying to get in between words and very small moves at precise spots 
>>> is
>>>
>>> ard to do unless you can stop the transport in a specific spot.
>>>
>>> So as far as I'm concerned spnar has it on automation for the way I like 
>>> to
>>>
>>> work, it doesn't get simpler than that, but reaper has it for item based
>>> editing and cross fading and such.
>>>
>>> Just think if you had a 100 tracks.
>>> project and you did automation on all of them, you'd have to do fills
>>> between every move you made, yikes,
>>> that's just crazy.
>>>
>>> I have dozens of automation moves,
>>> say in a vocal track,
>>> or a electrical fill track, and doing fills between each move wow, that 
>>> just
>>>
>>> seems so counter work flow, but really, is that the way it's done on
>>> protools and such?
>>>
>>> I wonder if any other daw does it the way sonar does it, leaves it where 
>>> you
>>>
>>> left it till you say change it?
>>>
>>> That just makes so much sense to me.
>>>
>>> But I've been using sonar since for ever.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "TheOreoMonster" <monkeypusher69 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 7:41 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>
>>>
>>>> You wouldn't like it lol. Its similar to reaper where i haven't found a
>>>> snapshot like there is in Sonar. The way it works is u enable write, 
>>>> and
>>>> play the track from the beginning.  to set that level or pan etc. The 
>>>> good
>>>>
>>>> thing is  u just have to engage the transport in order to set 
>>>> automatation
>>>>
>>>> for that entire track. Then you move to the part   where ever in the 
>>>> song
>>>>
>>>> u want to actually put in the automated change and select that time 
>>>> frame.
>>>>
>>>> make the changes to volume or pan or etc, then let the transport play 
>>>> to
>>>> the end of that selection. Once you do that  it will automate a change 
>>>> for
>>>>
>>>> just that area thats selected and jump back to the other values once it
>>>> plays past that selected area. So if u want to keep that change to the 
>>>> end
>>>>
>>>> you need to use the fill automation to the end of track similar to 
>>>> reaper.
>>>>
>>>> In all honesty though this work flow in reaper and PT is a lot more
>>>> conducive to my workflow and the way most engineers i hear of doing
>>>> automation use it.
>>>> On Jun 6, 2013, at 5:39 AM, "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> gTell me about it, try teaching 3 screen-readers and remebering ct did
>>>>> this but jsonar does that, and your in to protools a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I ain't got there yet, but am making quite a bit of leg up on reaper.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not offering to teach reaper yet unless asked, I'd like to get a
>>>>> little more second nature with it, also I don't this there'll be much
>>>>> business over here even at my low rates because of the different mind
>>>>> set, but maybe.
>>>>>
>>>>> Considering sonar and reaper are both
>>>>> several versions back for us, it's all a compromise and a big cludge
>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I do like the way reaper edits audio and does cross fading ans 
>>>>> such.
>>>>>
>>>>> How nice is automation for us in pt compared to reaper or sonar?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Kent" 
>>>>> <dbmusic at cybernex.net>
>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 6:00 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> they do when you are in the track properties dialog.  I just realized
>>>>>> that I was confusing it with pro tools, which does work well with
>>>>>> changing effects parameters with the wiz wheels.  In pt, some of 
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> really change in tiny increments when using the keyboard with voice 
>>>>>> over
>>>>>>
>>>>>> on the mac while using the whiz wheel lets you run through it.  I
>>>>>> haven't used reaper in a while, and I get confused with all these
>>>>>> different daw software packages around these days.
>>>>>> Gord
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Westphal
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 5:24 PM
>>>>>> To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Gord!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow! How do you assign them to move the knobs for Pan and Volume?
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ciao!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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