[RWP] Automation

Fri Jun 7 07:55:15 EDT 2013

Yeh, I do know about splitting items.

Thatseems kind of weird to me, having to splice tape when a simple move will 
fix things, because when you tear a wav apart you have to put it back 
together, and even though reaper does it nicely with growing edges and such, 
that's just more work.

When you move faders on a board they stay where you leave them till you move 
them again, that's what I was geting at.

yes, when you have automation in sonar, you do have to use another snapshot 
to bring it back to where it was, but I don't want it assumed that's what I 
want.

And in the midi world, which is where I came up, midi controlers stay where 
you leave them until you decide to change them again, perhaps since cakewalk 
was a midi sequencer first, that where it inherited that behavior first, but 
I really like that method of doing things.
It was also that way on the old snapshot based boards which used v c a 
controlers
and a keyboard before we ever had enveloped based stuff on a computer.

If you mostly deal with audio editing, I can see 2why you might like reaper,
I remember when we were working together and you asked me about sonar and 
cross fading and such and I said it wasn't really supported well except in 
caketalking and even then it was kind of clunky.

I end up exporting stuff to sound forge when I have to do something complex 
with putting audio back together, and I always use sound on sound so my 
edges overlap so I don't have to deal with pops and clicks even in sonar, 
but reaper makes those sort of things very nice.

In sonar  I often do little changes with just one word and I can do dozens 
of automation moves in a vocal track to make it very smooth and to have to 
cut apart that many phrases is just well, you know it's all down to how you 
like to work.

I see sonar as superior in automation but reaper superior in item based 
editing right now.

It's good we have a choice.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Chesworth" <scottchesworth at gmail.com>
To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 3:23 AM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation

>I haven't seen the behaviour you're seeing in Sonar anywhere else that
> I can think of man, and tbh I can't quite fathom why it'd be useful to
> have that occurring by default. Perhaps we approach automation
> differently. In my world, the 3 most common examples of automation are
> little nudges of volume to draw focus to or divert focus away from
> aspects of a track, muting to reign in excessive something or other,
> or more rhythmical movements to make fx into an actual part. Point
> being that the track at it's normal level and panning position will
> serve its purpose untouched for the vast majority of the song by
> design. When I make a slight touch up, that's where I want the track
> to go back to straight afterward. The way you're used to working, I
> assume you'd have to have two snapshots, one to make whatever tweak
> you want and another to get the track back to its previous state. That
> feels counterintuitive here!
>
> You do realise you can automate items as well, right? So if you want
> to bump up the guitars by 3 DB in the last chorus and want them to
> stay that way without sitting through all 4 repetitions of it, split
> an item, raise item volume by 3 db and boom, job done. I think working
> in terms of items is probably about as close as you'll get to
> snapshots. I like to  name items descriptively as I go when I'm doing
> this stuff, so that if I come back to a project after months away I'll
> have some reminders of the method behind the madness.
>
> Just some thoughts, maybe they'll help.
>
> Scott
>
> On 6/7/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> I would think that making an automation move and having it stay where you
>> left it would be way more conducive to workflow, that's like someone 
>> comeing
>>
>> behind your shoulder and moving your knobs back where you left them after
>> you made a change everytime.
>>
>> But that's just me.
>>
>> I don't want my daw second guessing me, if I want my volume or pan or
>> whatever to change again, I'd like to do it myself.
>>
>> Having to select time areas is another step or filling envelops, 
>> something
>> sould be just as simple as applications key and s and you got a snapshot,
>> and trying to get in between words and very small moves at precise spots 
>> is
>>
>> ard to do unless you can stop the transport in a specific spot.
>>
>> So as far as I'm concerned spnar has it on automation for the way I like 
>> to
>>
>> work, it doesn't get simpler than that, but reaper has it for item based
>> editing and cross fading and such.
>>
>> Just think if you had a 100 tracks.
>> project and you did automation on all of them, you'd have to do fills
>> between every move you made, yikes,
>> that's just crazy.
>>
>> I have dozens of automation moves,
>> say in a vocal track,
>> or a electrical fill track, and doing fills between each move wow, that 
>> just
>>
>> seems so counter work flow, but really, is that the way it's done on
>> protools and such?
>>
>> I wonder if any other daw does it the way sonar does it, leaves it where 
>> you
>>
>> left it till you say change it?
>>
>> That just makes so much sense to me.
>>
>> But I've been using sonar since for ever.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "TheOreoMonster" <monkeypusher69 at gmail.com>
>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 7:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>
>>
>>> You wouldn't like it lol. Its similar to reaper where i haven't found a
>>> snapshot like there is in Sonar. The way it works is u enable write, and
>>> play the track from the beginning.  to set that level or pan etc. The 
>>> good
>>>
>>> thing is  u just have to engage the transport in order to set 
>>> automatation
>>>
>>> for that entire track. Then you move to the part   where ever in the 
>>> song
>>>
>>> u want to actually put in the automated change and select that time 
>>> frame.
>>>
>>> make the changes to volume or pan or etc, then let the transport play to
>>> the end of that selection. Once you do that  it will automate a change 
>>> for
>>>
>>> just that area thats selected and jump back to the other values once it
>>> plays past that selected area. So if u want to keep that change to the 
>>> end
>>>
>>> you need to use the fill automation to the end of track similar to 
>>> reaper.
>>>
>>> In all honesty though this work flow in reaper and PT is a lot more
>>> conducive to my workflow and the way most engineers i hear of doing
>>> automation use it.
>>> On Jun 6, 2013, at 5:39 AM, "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> gTell me about it, try teaching 3 screen-readers and remebering ct did
>>>> this but jsonar does that, and your in to protools a bit.
>>>>
>>>> I ain't got there yet, but am making quite a bit of leg up on reaper.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not offering to teach reaper yet unless asked, I'd like to get a
>>>> little more second nature with it, also I don't this there'll be much
>>>> business over here even at my low rates because of the different mind
>>>> set, but maybe.
>>>>
>>>> Considering sonar and reaper are both
>>>> several versions back for us, it's all a compromise and a big cludge
>>>> anyway.
>>>>
>>>> But I do like the way reaper edits audio and does cross fading ans 
>>>> such.
>>>>
>>>> How nice is automation for us in pt compared to reaper or sonar?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Kent" <dbmusic at cybernex.net>
>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 6:00 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> they do when you are in the track properties dialog.  I just realized
>>>>> that I was confusing it with pro tools, which does work well with
>>>>> changing effects parameters with the wiz wheels.  In pt, some of those
>>>>> really change in tiny increments when using the keyboard with voice 
>>>>> over
>>>>>
>>>>> on the mac while using the whiz wheel lets you run through it.  I
>>>>> haven't used reaper in a while, and I get confused with all these
>>>>> different daw software packages around these days.
>>>>> Gord
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Westphal
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 5:24 PM
>>>>> To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Automation
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Gord!
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow! How do you assign them to move the knobs for Pan and Volume?
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ciao!
>>>>>
>>>>> Alex
>>>>>
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>>>>
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