[RWP] Another Controller for Automation slashcrazy Tweaking

Indigo 33indigo at charter.net
Sun Jun 2 09:02:30 EDT 2013 

Even though this gamePad is fun, I think it's just too cheap.
There's a sputter that results from the joystick movement.
If you use the D-Pad next to the left joystick; which is a flat pad with 
4 direction movement, it doesn't sputter, but it's movement is too quick 
and choppy.
I just wrote an automated pan with it; and you can write a pan that 
wantders around the stereo field; or wobbles  left and right; but not 
smoothly; like would be easy to do with a long throw fader on a control 
surface or with an endless rotary encoder.
Tilting a pad that only has a quarter inch or less of movement just 
doesn't make for smooth writing.
That sputtering of the joysticks is unforgivable, so don't buy this 
model, if you decide to try one.
I learned something about joysticks and how they're configured by 
scripts in Reaper; anyway.
When you click on Add Joystick in Preferences/midi device; you get a 
choice of scripts that configure the buttons, and the axes of the 
joysticks; on a generic GamePad, or on 2 X-Box type pads.
The scripts are in text; and by right clicking on edit you can alter 
those configurations directly in the script.
I also understand the Reaper actions better; how to configure them to 
midi CC messages; how to remove assignments.
There's a submenu of types of CC message assignment i didn't know was 
there, with a list: Absolute, plus various relative settings related to 
the 0 to 127 values that are transmitted.
I'll need to study those relative settings, but 1 of those could be the 
setting that causes a control to wait until it reaches the current value 
that you're controlling; before it transmits data; so no sudden jumps occur.
Those configurations are not what's causing the sputtering from these 
joysticks; it's the cheapness of the joystick contacts that makes them 
sputter;
So, it's either a better damePad; or back to pro level control surfaces.
I wonder if someone makes a box with just a single high quality long 
throw joystick, meant for smooth automation and not for video games?
Indi
On 6/1/2013 10:20 PM, Indigo wrote:
> I just assigned the GamePad joysticks to 2 different parameters in
> ReaDelay by midi learn.
> Unlike assigning in the Reaper action list; in the effects you get no
> confirmation that the effect has accepted your midi CC.
> You just have to trust it and tab down to okay and try it.
> I just looped a beautiful celtic folksong, and assigned one of the
> joysticks to; I think; length; and the other to; I think; delay time.
> I just let it loop as I tried to sync the delay with the original vocal
> so I would have the lady singing a round, with herself; in time to the
> words in the previous passage.
> I got it right in some places, but, I picked a not good song to sync;
> since the song has varying time; while the ReaDelay does not, so parts
> synched up perfectly; a beautiful harmonized duet; and other parts got a
> sound like she was singing in Notre Dame cathedral; with a really long
> echo. smile.
> Great fun, and holding the little GamePadwith both hands and tweaking
> the joysticks is very ergonomic on the hands.
> They design these things so your fingers naturally fall onto the right
> place.
>
> Indi
> On 6/1/2013 8:20 PM, Alex H. wrote:
>> Nice. I'll play with this as I have a few NES controllers and such
>> like that work via USB. If nothing else, it's just cool to play with.
>>
>> Anything regarding effects? I'd love to be able, for instance, to fade
>> in the wet signal of a verb plugin gradually at the end of a solo or
>> something on a guitar track, looks possible by the process you
>> explained and mapping joystick buttons to a param. Would be a bit
>> faster than the current way I do things, which as others have stated,
>> is to crossfade the dry and wet signals of a track for the desired
>> envelope.
>>
>>   :)
>> Thanks.
>> Alex
>>
>> On 6/1/13, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>> Dereck, I'm not totally sure, but you could experiment with toggling
>>> between two Reaper templates, 1 with the BCF2000 set in Mackie Mode
>>> Universal in preferences/Control Surfaces;
>>> and the other Reaper template with the BCF2000 enabled in
>>> preferences/midi device.
>>> I haven't read about anybody doing that, so you'll maybe the first to
>>> try it as an experiment.
>>> By the way, I think you need to tell Reaper about the IO ports of your
>>> BCF2000, because it's a 2 directional device, both transmitting and
>>> receiving, while a lowly gamePad only transmits, and has only a single
>>> out port that reaper detects automatically.
>>> That's the same for the M-Audio Trigger Finger, only transmits, only 1
>>> output port.
>>> The Edirol PCR-300 only transmits, but has 2 output ports, and needs to
>>> also be configured as a midi device, because it has music keys as well
>>> as midi controls.
>>> Indi
>>> On 6/1/2013 5:44 PM, Derek Lane wrote:
>>>> Yes, it is quite easy to use nvda to edit the control servace
>>>> preferences in reaper if you know how to use object nav, and mouse
>>>> routing.
>>>> My only problem with envelopes is the abrupt way they begin and end.
>>>> There is usually some drastic volume change when you enter automation
>>>> and when you're finished that it makes things more annoying than they
>>>> should be.
>>>> Up to now, I've just exported items to sound forge, where I'll do fades
>>>> to make things pan off in a given direction,m or face items a spesific
>>>> value.
>>>> For slowly etenuating sound, I'd split an item where I wanted the fade
>>>> to begin, and then grow the length of the previous item such that a
>>>> crossfade between a loud and quiet copy of the material exists,
>>>> creating
>>>> a slow duck.
>>>> Inversely, boosting the volume of a split item, an dgrowing the edge of
>>>> the previous one can create a rise in volume.
>>>> Same for pan.
>>>> I digress from the topic a bit though.
>>>>
>>>> Do you happen to know the differences between write and latch in the
>>>> available automation   settings?
>>>> Trim/off, read  and touch are kind of obvious
>>>> Also, is there an easier way to cycle the bcf from control surface mode
>>>> to being a button and knob box than removing it as a control serfice,
>>>> adding it as a midi device and setting the io appropriately, then
>>>> reversing the process when you want it to be a control serfice again?
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2013 5:22 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Another Controller for Automation slashcrazy
>>>> Tweaking
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It depends on how you enable a device that transmits midi.
>>>>> If it's a keyboard that is not supported as a control surface; but has
>>>>> just a fader or a couple of knobs  that transmit midi data, you just
>>>>> enable it in preferences midi devices; to use as a midi device, and
>>>>> also place a checkmark on use as a midi controller.
>>>>> For the BCF2000, you need to go to preferences control surfaces; and
>>>>> enable it not as a BCF2000 in control surfaces; but as a Mackie
>>>>> Control Universal.
>>>>> I think you'll need to use your jaws routed to PC cursor, or
>>>>> Window-Eyes numberPad shortcuts, to find that Mackie Control Universal
>>>>> setting, but I don't remember the exact procedure, since it's been
>>>>> ages since I enabled the BCF2000.
>>>>> I haven't tried Reaper's control surface settings with NVDA, so don't
>>>>> know if it sees all those settings with its object navigation.
>>>>> You're right, I should start a music track playing on track 1, lower
>>>>> its volume with the down arrow, so I can simultaneously hear speech;
>>>>> press ctrl+r to toggle repeat on, then load an effect; like ReaEQ.
>>>>> Then I'll open Param, go to parameters list Midi learn and assign the
>>>>> gamePad's joystick to control an easily heard equalizer parameter;
>>>>> like ReaEQ's  high shelf.
>>>>> When you raise the values on the high shelf all the high hat sounds
>>>>> are muffled and when you lower the values the highs become
>>>>> exaggerated, if i didn't get that backward.
>>>>> Anyway, whichever way it goes; it's easy to hear when a midi CC
>>>>> message is working in ReaEQ; where a relatively small change makes a
>>>>> huge difference in sound.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Indi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/1/2013 4:51 PM, Derek Lane wrote:
>>>>>> Sounds to me like you'll have better luck automating effects than
>>>>>> automating volume and pan, because you have to enable a midi input
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> controling things like that, and tell reaper the  midi i/o for your
>>>>>> device is a control serfice for volume/pan to work.
>>>>>> This, granted, from 1 days experimentation with a behringer bcf2000,
>>>>>> using indigos instructions he posted a few months ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2013 9:49 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Another Controller for Automation slashcrazy
>>>>>> Tweaking
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tab down from the field where you enable your midi keyboard; in
>>>>>>> preferences; and there's a button to assign a joystick.
>>>>>>> I'm going to study the procedures today, but I remember that you can
>>>>>>> assign joystick axes  to tweak  various things, like mod; pitch
>>>>>>> bend;
>>>>>>> volume or pan; or any other midi cc message; and you can assign
>>>>>>> buttons to a range of options.
>>>>>>> These joysticks are meant to move around with 1 thumb each; on a
>>>>>>> little mushroom shaped stick, with only about 1 inch of movement in
>>>>>>> any direction; so I'm sure it'll take time to learn not to
>>>>>>> overcontrol, to get smooth tweaks; as when automating.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You could edit automation envelopes afterward to reduce number of
>>>>>>> points to smooth out raggedness
>>>>>>> .I once assigned a short throw fader on a control surface to the
>>>>>>> entire 7 or 8 octave range of pitch bend, which was great fun; good
>>>>>>> for instant supersonic squeals or ultra deep blasts in pop music.
>>>>>>> Indi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/1/2013 9:11 AM, Alexander Westphal wrote:
>>>>>>>> Wow! And how can I integrate it into Reaper?
>>>>>>>>
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