[RWP] reaper fx window - the presets comboBox limitation
Chris Belle
cb1963 at sbcglobal.net
Thu Jul 11 20:48:06 EDT 2013
Just a little explanation of dpc latency for those who it might pertain to which is anyone doing audio on the wondows os.
DPc stands for defered protocol.
Windows runs important drivers in the kernel where time is alloted to essential processes.
Windows is not a real time os.
So timing is everything.
If you have an errant printer driver, or other device which is hogging too much time in the kernel, that can bring the house down, say you've got your daw loaded up with lots of plugs, and real time plugs want the processor right nowand a few miliseconds can matter greatly.
Say your guitar cab simm wants the processor, but your processor is busy dealing with the video driver, guess what, audio drop-out.
This doesn't affect office machines, or even gaming machines, but for real time critical operation, a well tuned
modest machine with low dpc latency will out-perform a power house with lazy dpc latencies.
Just imagine you have a big shipping truck which comes one a day.
That's your pc.
Now imagine you have all these vst plugs, that run around several times a day, these are your little shipping trucks.
But what if the big truck didn't come by once a day, but twice a week.
The big truck can carry way more than the little trucks can, but if it doesn't come by often enough, then the local shipments will pile up.
Daw vendors use motherboards, and particular parts and settings which are known to give low dp latencies.
And one little thing like a video card, a different driver revission,
or even any device which wasn't figured in the equation can bust you down to a high dpc latency where your pc though it may be hugely powerful, isn't rotating fast enough in the cue to catch all those processor demands your daw may be asking for.
Other operating systems handle processor calls in a different way, so this is most particular to windows.
But even with more modern operating systems like later versions of linux, you can swap out kernels to say a real time kernel for better performance.
But the whole architecture is different so dpc doesn't apply in the same way it does to windows.
That why a mac is great at being a mac, but may such on the windows side for daw duties, unless your not running lots of real time plugs, if your doing audio loops and mostly i/o kinds of things from disk then a fairly high dpc latency may not be noticeable, but the minute you start.
getting a fair number of real time plugs, it will bite you in the butt.
I'm not sure exactly when the models changed, but if you read on cakewalk forums and also information from other users and anything posted on cakewalk for daw performance will be relevant to any other daw
that's because they all use asio drivers and the same types of plugs and they're all prone to dpc latency issues.
But my understanding is the earlier macs did much better on the windows side than the latest ones.
This shouldn't affect performance on the mac side though.
That's why to my understanding cakewalk isn't officially supporting their products on the windows side of things anymore.
But if you are having good luck and your mac does well enough for you on the windows side then that's great.
I just wouldn't recommend it as my first choice for windows daw work.
But just fine for ordinary things, email, office, light two track work,
even firing up reaper to slice and dice up audio should be fine as long as you don't hit the real time plugs too hard.
Again, it's not about power, but about timing.
Until I understood this aspect of windows daw work, I used to pull my hair out, I'd have this great custom shop pc that had all kinds of power but it's drop out on me if I put too many plugs in it,
and sometimes it would be that many.
I'd have to freeze tracks to make things work again.
But when I started buying machines from Jim Rosebery, and other reputable daw vendors, that problem went away.
Because custom shops might build you a great gaming machine, or office box, but they usually don't know the first thing about the right stuff or how to tune a daw.
----- Original Message -----
From: Goldfinga Productions
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [RWP] reaper fx window - the presets comboBox limitation
I am also running another machine that is my Mac with a Windows 7 Boot Camp partition. I also have the best of both worlds, and I am loving it. In these days, we need to have several tools to complete one job. I will be glad when we can just sit down at one machine and get the whole thing done without having to worry about what will or will not work for us.
GF
On Jul 10, 2013, at 9:24 PM, "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Gf, I think that's the best combination considering the haltered re-access.
Xp, old as it is makes you compatible with many older dxi plugs which are accessible to us and for practical purposes, aren't less than all the latest and greatest stuff.
So after the big lightning strike that wiped out 4 pcs here, my next machine probably the last one I can do it with will have an xp build along with a 64 bit w7 build.
That way I get the best of everything.
----- Original Message -----
From: Goldfinga Productions
To: Reapers Without Peepers
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] reaper fx window - the presets comboBox limitation
Shift he has nothing to do with the amount of presets in a plug-in, but more the parameters with in the plug-in. I have plug-ins that have several hundred parameters in them from the shift Peaninew. I am also using windows XP professional 32-bit, NVDA, and reaper 32-bit version 3.78.
GF
On Jul 10, 2013, at 11:43 AM, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
> I'm running the latest version of reaper, unless a newer 1 is out without my realizing it.
> I have an offline daw, so it doesn't get update notices.
> It's on 32 bit Xp, and I use either Wineyes or NVDA; but I am totally sure that VSTI synths like Z3ta have many more than 130 presets, never checked the limitations of effects like compressers, equalizers, to learn if they're limited in any way.
> What is the VST effect you find limited to showing 130 presets in the combo box in FX Chaining View, and how many of its effects are shown when you press shift+P in track view?
> Indi
>
> On 7/10/2013 4:50 AM, hadi wrote:
>> Uh... are you sure? i mean.. well that's odd
>> check this topic for example that i openned
>> http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1208272#post1208272
>>
>> the guy on post two also says that it has some limitations...
>> What version of reaper you running, i assume the latest one?
>>
>> thats wierd~
>> On 7/10/2013 1:16 PM, Indigo wrote:
>>> I don't get that here.
>>> Z3ta displays about 800 some odd presets, for instance, and you can
>>> just arrow up and down through them.
>>> Indi
>>>
>>> On 7/10/2013 4:23 AM, hadi wrote:
>>>> Hello
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone noticed that the combo box of fx window that lists presets of
>>>> a vst has the limitation of 130 presets only?
>>>>
>>>> i have some vsts that are not accessible, (the interface) and they
>>>> contain more than 300 presets to load from, but reaper only list the 130
>>>> of them.
>>>> Has anyone got a workaround for this?
>>>> Or maybe it would be cool to give reaper devs some suggestions so that
>>>> there could be an option to increase the the thing.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
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