[RWP] Help with Sinth VSTs

Tue Dec 31 20:44:09 EST 2013

Wow, I wasn't aware of the new struggles with Mac:  reading this
really helps since next year I was looking into buying a new computer
soley for audio production and was leaning towards a Mac for Garage
band.  It sucks that Garage band became unaccessible!  That really is
upsetting.  I'm a little glad though because I'd prefer to spend less
on a computer and just stick NVDA on it or something haha.

I had a sighted friend helping me with getting sinths to play, and we
nixed Sonar at first for reaper:  but I will definitely re-install
Sonar to give it a go with sinths if it's more user friendly (I was
using 8) I was using JSonar with it and could never really get the
controls down as far as sound editing is concerned, but I usually
bounce from reaper to goldwave for easy editing so maybe that won't be
a problem:  I'll tinker with Sonar 8/JSonar and hopefully that will
work better with sinths!  But would I still have the same issue with
setting up the midi inputs/outputs in the stand alone libraries
themselves?
This all really helps a lot, thanks everyone!

On 12/31/13, Keith Hinton <keithint1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I forgot to mention DPC latency. One thing the Macs from I believe
> 2010 onwars are famous for is high over 1000 plus worth non tweekable
> values out of control DPC latency. At least when running Windows. You
> can't tweek it in software, and you can't bring it down in hardware.
> So ultimately, it doesn't matter what hard-drive RPM you have at all.
> You'll get dropouts, and other problems  with any realtime audio
> program like Sonar. Sorry for me just remembering to mention that. But
> I figured to do that, before you got all excited. So really, think
> twice. If you want a good machine manufacturer, look at Jim
> Roseberry's machines over at http://www.studiocat.com
>
>
> On 12/31/13, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>> I like synthetic synths myself, and aren't interested in synphonic
>> instruments, but there's a big orchestra program that some blind users
>> have accessed for years, something Pocket Orchestra.
>> It might come with Sonar Producer version, or you may be able to buy it
>> separately.
>> Someone here will know its name, and how to get it.
>> Also, there are hardware modules by Roland and others with very
>> realistic orchestra instruments.
>> The Yamaha Motif series are famous for their emulated acoustic
>> instruments, and they have great access, even a website devoted to blind
>> users of Motifs.
>>
>> If you read the posts on the most recent mac changes that have destroyed
>> most of mac access, you may become wary of struggling with running a mac.
>> I envied the beautiful clarity of music made on Logic, until I played a
>> tutorial video done by TC Helicon on how to edit a tiny little track
>> from 1 of their pedals in Logic on a mac.
>> The guy was a expert mac user, and a factory tech, and it took hours,
>> plus a dozen reboots to get a few little track edits done in Logic.
>> Mac owners will never reveal those flaws to you, they have paid so much
>> for their macs; and the snob appeal is so great;  they just keep quiet
>> and eat it.
>>
>> Indi
>>
>> On 12/30/2013 6:40 PM, Crystal Dennis wrote:
>>> Thanks for all the help guys.  I've been having issues with accessing
>>> the preference windows even with the JAWS cursors and clicking star
>>> and everything, and putting graphics on read all didn't do anything in
>>> Eastwest.  I wasn't aware that this would be an issue with sinths, so
>>> I am a little sad because I wanted to really use some orchestra
>>> sinths:  The accessible ones I have right now are more dance sinths (I
>>> have z3TA plus) I am currently on the hunt for any accessible
>>> orchestra sinths, so any help with that would be appreciated.  I'm
>>> also debating having a sighted friend just set it up for me, but it's
>>> ashame that that has to be the solution to these sorts of problems
>>> other than just buying a mac that has more on board accessibility lol.
>>>
>>> I will continue troubleshooting/testing sinths though, thanks everyone!
>>>
>>> On 12/29/13, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>> Jackie, I once experimented with enabling audio devices and midi
>>>> devices
>>>> in Reaper with Wineyes 6.1, Jaws 10 and NVDA 2012.
>>>> The method was very similar in each for routing disabled over to the
>>>> number pad, focusing on it there, then pressing the star key for a
>>>> right
>>>> click to bring up the configuration dialog.
>>>> I don't think its either easier or more difficult with any of those,
>>>> and
>>>> I didn't find any impossible moves in Reaper for those particular
>>>> screenreaders.
>>>>
>>>> For making VST synths play that don't easily display their presets, I
>>>> found it was hit and miss as to which screenreader displayed what
>>>> interface parameters.
>>>> Wineyes previous and next clip is the most useful screenreader move I
>>>> found for locating elusive interface icons, but  I'm not skilled enough
>>>> in Jaws to utilize all its potential in its numPad cursors, nor did I
>>>> ever learn to use its OCR function.
>>>> I don't know if anyone has yet found all that NVDA's object navigation
>>>> can do, and I'm constantly surprised at what I can read with NVDA.
>>>> On this online surfing computer I now have only NVDA and Google Chrome,
>>>> which together move like a lightening boltaround web pages.
>>>> Reaper itself dumps all automatable parameters is an awkward to use
>>>> list, but I never found any of those listed parameters useful to get an
>>>> uncooperative synth to expose its presets, so you can play them.
>>>> Either by accident when roaming around the interface and left clicking,
>>>> or with sighted help, I've got preset inc and dec arrows located, in
>>>> several synths, like NI's Massive, FM8 and Absynth 5, plus Zebra,
>>>> Nexus,
>>>> and others; and found ways to get back to those preset buttons, which
>>>> is
>>>> at least miminal access.
>>>> With as many accessible VST synths that are available, like Z3TA, which
>>>> readily exposes all its presets, same with Gladiator,Firebird, and many
>>>> others, one could say why frustrate oneself with uncooperative synths.
>>>> Still, some synths sound so beautiful we get sucked into unraveling
>>>> their puzzle.
>>>> With me it's Camel Audio's Alchemy, which I have been working on for a
>>>> couple of years now.
>>>> Novation's AutoMap has been a blessing at getting every parameter of
>>>> VST
>>>> plugs onto hardware knobs and buttons, but it is no help at finding and
>>>> navigating interface menus, dialogs, and other bit map  screen monkey
>>>> puzzles one needs for total access.
>>>> Indi 	
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/28/2013 4:31 PM, Jackie McBride wrote:
>>>>> Unfortunately, Jaws 10 is pretty old & may not be picking up on stuff
>>>>> it needs to pick up on. Having said that, though, Crystall, there are
>>>>> some settings I'd advise u to change in Jaws. First, u should consider
>>>>> setting graphics to all--not labeled, & definitively not none. Also,
>>>>> try going into your verbosity preferences & check to read the
>>>>> tooltips. Lastly, try seeing what happens if u set jaws to follow pc.
>>>>> U might get some tooltips to read & be able to figure out what some of
>>>>> those unlabeled graphics do, & then u can label 'em. Unset that option
>>>>> when you're done, though, or it'll drive u absolutely nutso.
>>>>>
>>>>> U might also try NVDA & see if that provides any better results.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/28/13, Crystal Dennis <valkyriecelesyt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I feel like that may be the problem:  I have gone into the
>>>>>> preferences
>>>>>> dialogues and can only see very sparce things with the JAWS cursor.
>>>>>> In that case:  Does anyone know an accessible set of orchestra sinths
>>>>>> I can test out?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/28/13, Gianluca Apollaro <gianluca.apollaro88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi list,
>>>>>>> if some synths are working and some other arn't it probably means
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> the not working ones have a non accessible interface and that you
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> to click on some graphics to make them load their sounds.
>>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>> Gianluca from Italy.
>>>>>>> Skype Id: gianluca8815
>>>>>>> Il 28/12/2013 04:46, Crystal Dennis ha scritto:
>>>>>>>> Yeah and every other sinth is working, so I'm wondering if I should
>>>>>>>> just try another package until I find one that works...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/27/13, Drew <amockery at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> That is very odd. "Default" is, well, the default--in other words
>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> shortcut that points to whatever you've set as your default
>>>>>>>>> device.
>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> are no devices, that's meaningless. You must have some sound
>>>>>>>>> device
>>>>>>>>> otherwise you would not be able to hear JAWS, but for it to not
>>>>>>>>> show
>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> quite strange.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Crystal Dennis" <valkyriecelesyt at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 7:16 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Help with Sinth VSTs
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When I pull down the sound device menus I have:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Primary Sound capture driver -- when Direct Sound is selected
>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft Sound Mapper -- When Wave out is selected.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> those are the only 2 sound devices that show up and on midi I
>>>>>>>>>> have:
>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft Wavable Sinth Disabled (I tried right clicking and no
>>>>>>>>>> menus
>>>>>>>>>> came up at all....I'm also using JAWS 10)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The only things I can't get working are the sound libraries, and
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> feel like there's something vital that I'm missing due to my
>>>>>>>>>> newbe-ness in this subject....sorry if this is too many
>>>>>>>>>> questions!
>>>>>>>>>> But all I get are drop down menus in preferences, no way to right
>>>>>>>>>> click anything even with the JAWS cursor
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/27/13, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Crystal, do you have a sound card that you installed into your
>>>>>>>>>>> computer,
>>>>>>>>>>> or is there only the RealTech sound chip?
>>>>>>>>>>> If you have a third-party soundcard installed, or just RealTech,
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> need to get it recognized in Reaper's preferences.
>>>>>>>>>>> You can play VST synths using the RealTech chip, but with large
>>>>>>>>>>> delay
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> latency; between the moment you hit the note on the keyboard and
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> moment you hear the note.
>>>>>>>>>>> To get either your installed soundcard or the built in RealTech
>>>>>>>>>>> chip
>>>>>>>>>>> enabled, press ctrl+P.
>>>>>>>>>>> Then navigate to audio.
>>>>>>>>>>> Then tab down to the field that shows either your soundcard, or
>>>>>>>>>>> RealTech, and get enabled; instead of Disabled, after its name;
>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>> routing focus to the number pad.
>>>>>>>>>>> The method will depend on your screenreader, but it's similar in
>>>>>>>>>>> Wineyes, Jaws and NVDA.
>>>>>>>>>>> Then focus at the numPad on the soundcard's name, or Disabled.
>>>>>>>>>>> Then right click at the number pad
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Configure Dialog should appear.
>>>>>>>>>>> Press enter on the Configure Dialog, and when it opens, place
>>>>>>>>>>> checkmarks
>>>>>>>>>>> on use as audio device, etcetera.
>>>>>>>>>>> Then arrow down to Midi Device and follow the same procedure for
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> inputs and outputs for midi.
>>>>>>>>>>> Get Disabled routed over to the number Pad, then focus on the
>>>>>>>>>>> soundcard's name or Disabled, then right click and you should
>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> midi configuration Dialog.
>>>>>>>>>>> Hit enter on it.
>>>>>>>>>>> When it opens, place checkmarks with your spacebar on Use as
>>>>>>>>>>> midi
>>>>>>>>>>> device, etcetera.
>>>>>>>>>>> Then tab down to OK and hit enter, and you'll be taken back to
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> track
>>>>>>>>>>> view.
>>>>>>>>>>> To get a synth to load, you need to install it in a folder, or
>>>>>>>>>>> copy/paste its .dll into a folder, so Reaper can find it.
>>>>>>>>>>> I keep all VST's in C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins which,
>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> typed it correctly, is the exact path to my synths folder.
>>>>>>>>>>> To type in the path to where you are keeping VST plugIns, press
>>>>>>>>>>> ctrl+P,
>>>>>>>>>>> then arrow down to VST, then tab down to where Reaper asks you
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>>>> in a path to your VST plugIns.
>>>>>>>>>>> Same here as when getting a soundcard enabled, be sure to click
>>>>>>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> OK before exiting.
>>>>>>>>>>> To load a synth, press the letter F while on a selected track
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> load dialog opens.
>>>>>>>>>>> Navigate with tab and arrows to the desired plugIn and hit enter
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>> and it loads to the selected track.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Now, while arrowed to the track with the loaded plug, tab and
>>>>>>>>>>> you'll
>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>> various recording options.
>>>>>>>>>>> Set monitor to Normal with your arrow keys, so you can hear the
>>>>>>>>>>> synth
>>>>>>>>>>> play.
>>>>>>>>>>> Be sure to hit enter to keep your settings.
>>>>>>>>>>> I can't tell you what to set as the recording source, since I've
>>>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>>>> used the virtual keyboard, and have no idea how to set up a
>>>>>>>>>>> synth
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> play from virtual keyboard.
>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry,
>>>>>>>>>>> Indi
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/26/2013 7:52 PM, Crystal Dennis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi again!  I seriously need some help, so hopefully I came to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> right place :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been using reaper for awhile, and I recently wanted to
>>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>> composing my own music tracks with instrument sinths.  I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> virtual keyboard, and have downloaded a few sinth sets but...I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> had this same problem with all of them:  They haven't been
>>>>>>>>>>>> playing
>>>>>>>>>>>> when I load the track into reaper!  Here's what I've been
>>>>>>>>>>>> doing:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Installing the software (I've tried Eastwest and Miroslave
>>>>>>>>>>>> Filharmonic with the same results for both - no audio)
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Then I've tinkered with my audio device settings with no
>>>>>>>>>>>> results.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now I am very, very new with dealing with sinths, so my
>>>>>>>>>>>> questions
>>>>>>>>>>>> are:
>>>>>>>>>>>>      Do I need some new software that reaper doesn't have?  I
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> any Aceo drivers, could that be why?  or does the Virtual
>>>>>>>>>>>> Keyboard
>>>>>>>>>>>> just not work for all plugins...I've tried spicy guitar also
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't play either.  Sound magics VSTs have worked for me, but
>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>>>>>> about it really.  There's something that says 32 Out and 8 Out
>>>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> some of the files, what does that mean?  Are there any other
>>>>>>>>>>>> orchestra
>>>>>>>>>>>> sinth packs that work better with Reaper I could try out?  I
>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>> just want to get something working because right now I have a
>>>>>>>>>>>> ton
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> GB taken up with nothing to show for it.  So mainly I'm a noob
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> sinths who needs help!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry for this novel!  Any help would be greatly appreciated :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Crystal
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Keith
> Home Phone:
> 928-554-3936
> Mobile Phone:
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> keithint1234 at gmail.com
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