[RWP] Help with Sinth VSTs
Keith Hinton
keithint1234 at gmail.com
Tue Dec 31 08:12:52 EST 2013
Hi,
Chris Bel is right.
I do know for sure that loads of work has been done for Sonar, even
the free JSonar works well.
I did want to talk about a few things that I know are true however,
even if you were to buy a Mac.
You see, what a lot of people end up doing is buying Macs, and
usually, they want Windows running on the actual underlying hardware,
so they install Windows into the Macs, wich they can actually do
thanks to Apple's BootCamp program.
You can obtain all the drivers for Windows 7/8 on new Macs these days
(they won't support anything lower) usually because of the
processors/chip sets used, but once you do that, you're usually ready
to go.
However, a few things to be aware of.
Apple tipicly ships Macs with 5400RPM drives.
That is not the standard for audio.
So you would probably have to make sure your Mac could support an
upgrade drive in question, and as firmware updates come out, which you
can't install unless you run OS X, you will find that your Mac moddle
is usually compatible with most things.
I know two mac friends of mine, who took out the stock 5400RPM drives
that the machines came with, replacing them with 7200RPM platters for
use with Sonar.
Then they hooked up Firewire devices and whent rocking with the drive
swappage. (the Mac uses an 800Firewire port) at least mine does, so if
your device is a 400 you'd need an 800 to 400 adapter. You can pick
them up cheaply on Amazon.
I still use my Mac mostly as a Windows laptop more than as a Mac with
Apple's software.
>From time to time I use OS X,but bairly.
So I'm pointing out that the most compatible way to run Windows is to
use Apple's BootCamp utility.
However, once it creates a Windows partition, your Mac will instruct
you to run Windows setup.
At that point, you won't have speech (unless you use a talking Windows
pre-install environment) or similar, and that's beyond the sscope of
this list, so I won't cover anything potentially technical here.
However, needless to say, you can do exactly what I've talked about,
if you have enough money to order the parts, etc.
One benifit of buying the Mac is that since BootCamp comes with OS X,
your Windows manufacturer drivers (from Apple Inc) in this case, will
already be available for download tipicly the latest BootCamp makes
you download them to a USb stick.
If you intend to use a USb stick by the way between a Windows/Mac
computer,I'll just say this.
Your best file system choice is FAT32 in that case.
Other operating systems, like NTFS (Windows-based) tend to be
incompatible and are not officially supported, beyond read-only
access.
At the end of the day, though, what you run Windows on is up to you.
I would advise against running Sonar in a Virtual Machine environment,
though on OS X.
That won't work too well, and you'll never be able to use a firewire
device in a VM because Firewire cannot be implemented guest side
(meaning the virtual Windows instance). Just keep that in mind, if
buying a Mac is what you wisht o do.
Just be aware that if you do use a 7200RPM drive, it will use more
battery power considerablly on these MacBook Pros, and more heat may
be generated as a result.
Just keep that in mind.
Also, most service techs who are qualified to make these kinds of
upgrades, tend to go off Apple specs released at whatever time your
Mac was released for general shipments.
So if they tel you things like Oh you can't install 8GB of RAM, then
that's because they're going off what the specs say, and not
necessarily that you updated your motherboard firmware to support that
8GB of RAM, etc.
Always check to make sure that your Mac's moddle number, is compatible
however with any particular hardware upgrade you intend to do or have
somebody do for you, as the case may be.
It would be a shame to buy RAM, have it installed, and then have the
machine not be able to see it, as an example.
Either way you do this stuff should a Mac be in your future, I thought
I'd point these things out.
Of course, you'll still be subject to the occasional Windows blue screens, etc.
So if you can accept that, then go for it and get a Mac if that's your
next DAW machine.
Most of the high end MacBook Pros have Firewire ports still.
And the earlier generation Macs available from the refurbished section
of the Apple online store, from 2011 are still power houses usually.
I don't think the 2012 or newer moddles support being able to install
new drives, RAM, etc, however.
So just keep that in mind.
And, also keep in mind that self-servicing your Mac is usually not a good idea.
If you can find an Apple authorized service shop, that's really the
best way to go about it.
They weren't really designed to be opened by an end-user.
So if your not up to the task of fiddling with screw drivers and all
that and buying tools to self-service anyways, as many still do, who
consider themselves geek types, then I still suggest an Apple service
shop any day of the year for any upgrades/repairs.
Take care.
On 12/30/13, Chris Belle <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> The closest thing to a turnkey solution for a daw out there now that has
> comprehensive tutorials, and a way to do most things you want to do
> is caketalking from dancing dots for cakewalk sonar 8.5.3 on windows,
> and then some third party devs have made
> synths accessible with hsc for kontak libraries, and
> other high end synths, some of this has trickled over to reaper,
> but more of it is available on the sonar side.
>
> I use both reaper and sonar, and like them each for different reasons, I
> tend to like reaper for an out and out audio editor for cross-fading and
> post production stuff,
> sonar's audio editing is kind of clunky, but it's midi editing is great.
>
> But technically you can do everything with both daws.
>
> Much more work has been done on the sonar side though because it was what
> most of us used for years and years.
>
> re-access is considered abandon ware now, and isn't being developed
> anymore.
>
> Caketalking just released it's last update for sonar 8.5.3
> and there are rumors of a script package for sonar x3, but nothing for
> sure.
>
> The interface changed so much that it's basically gonna take a whole
> re-write.
>
> Some over here are using later versions of reaper,
> and using re-access with work arounds, but most I think are more audio guys
> than midi guys.
>
> We've got a few pioneers in different camps, I know of one cubass user who
> hired a programmer to make things accessible for him,
> a couple of protools users,
> it all depends on how fast you need to get up to speed and what your goals
> are.
>
> Reaper holds lots of promise, and some are working being productive with it
> and making money,
> but there is no fixed way for a blind person to grab a tutorial, and or buy
> a lesson plan, and get there.
>
> Perhaps some of the advanced users here would give lessons for hire, and;
> you could get them to teach you.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Keith Hinton
> To: Reapers Without Peepers
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 6:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [RWP] Help with Sinth VSTs
>
>
> Hi,
> I wanted to point outsomething important about you buyig a Mac if
> that's something you intend to do.
> The example applications we'll use are Apple's GarageBand and Logic
> software, but you need to understand that not everything is sighted
> help free, even on OS X.
> Basicly, GarageBand used to be useable, we had effects, compressors,
> and other things we could apply to music/audio.
> However, when Logic ten and GarageBand ten came out (total software
> rewrites), the effects, compressors, amp moddlers, and so on,
> disappeared as far as Voiceover goes. Why? Because, Apple, much like
> how this has been the case for Windows apps for years requiring
> scripting as a result, has been visually making the interfaces
> "visually appealing.".
> This means, that amongst other things, all the controls are
> non-standard, so VoiceOver will ever find them. They actually
> digitally made BitMap nobs and other nice visually appealing graphic
> icons for things in GarageBand, but this also means they have done the
> same for the effects and compresors, etc.
> We are left quite literally pounding button after button after button
> after button, hoping to hell things happen when they happen, etc, as
> of the rewrite.
> The fact of the matter is, only sighted folks are having no trouble
> with the latest Logic or GarageBand programs on OS X respectively.
> And you'll be stuck with this horrible rewrite of an application, as
> it ships on all new Macs with OS X 10.9.
> Most of the keyboard shortcuts do not speak anymore, either as of the
> GarageBand ten release rewrite either.
> Conflicting reports exist for logic, but I'm just pointing out that if
> you don't think that sighted help isn't also an issue on OS X, do not
> be so sure of what you say before thinking about it first.
> Voiceover isn't all it's cracked up to be necessarily, depending on
> the circumstances in witch you use it.
> there will always be an application that you or I cannot access
> without sighted help to what extent depends on how many nonstandard
> controls were used.
> I'm predicting that someday, scripting heavily around badly coded
> interfaces for OS X applications somehow will be the norm in the
> future.
> Just some interesting thoughts to consider.
>
>
> On 12/30/13, Crystal Dennis <valkyriecelesyt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thanks for all the help guys. I've been having issues with accessing
> > the preference windows even with the JAWS cursors and clicking star
> > and everything, and putting graphics on read all didn't do anything in
> > Eastwest. I wasn't aware that this would be an issue with sinths, so
> > I am a little sad because I wanted to really use some orchestra
> > sinths: The accessible ones I have right now are more dance sinths (I
> > have z3TA plus) I am currently on the hunt for any accessible
> > orchestra sinths, so any help with that would be appreciated. I'm
> > also debating having a sighted friend just set it up for me, but it's
> > ashame that that has to be the solution to these sorts of problems
> > other than just buying a mac that has more on board accessibility lol.
> >
> > I will continue troubleshooting/testing sinths though, thanks everyone!
> >
> > On 12/29/13, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
> >> Jackie, I once experimented with enabling audio devices and midi
> devices
> >> in Reaper with Wineyes 6.1, Jaws 10 and NVDA 2012.
> >> The method was very similar in each for routing disabled over to the
> >> number pad, focusing on it there, then pressing the star key for a
> right
> >> click to bring up the configuration dialog.
> >> I don't think its either easier or more difficult with any of those,
> and
> >> I didn't find any impossible moves in Reaper for those particular
> >> screenreaders.
> >>
> >> For making VST synths play that don't easily display their presets, I
> >> found it was hit and miss as to which screenreader displayed what
> >> interface parameters.
> >> Wineyes previous and next clip is the most useful screenreader move I
> >> found for locating elusive interface icons, but I'm not skilled
> enough
> >> in Jaws to utilize all its potential in its numPad cursors, nor did I
> >> ever learn to use its OCR function.
> >> I don't know if anyone has yet found all that NVDA's object navigation
> >> can do, and I'm constantly surprised at what I can read with NVDA.
> >> On this online surfing computer I now have only NVDA and Google
> Chrome,
> >> which together move like a lightening boltaround web pages.
> >> Reaper itself dumps all automatable parameters is an awkward to use
> >> list, but I never found any of those listed parameters useful to get
> an
> >> uncooperative synth to expose its presets, so you can play them.
> >> Either by accident when roaming around the interface and left
> clicking,
> >> or with sighted help, I've got preset inc and dec arrows located, in
> >> several synths, like NI's Massive, FM8 and Absynth 5, plus Zebra,
> Nexus,
> >> and others; and found ways to get back to those preset buttons, which
> is
> >> at least miminal access.
> >> With as many accessible VST synths that are available, like Z3TA,
> which
> >> readily exposes all its presets, same with Gladiator,Firebird, and
> many
> >> others, one could say why frustrate oneself with uncooperative synths.
> >> Still, some synths sound so beautiful we get sucked into unraveling
> >> their puzzle.
> >> With me it's Camel Audio's Alchemy, which I have been working on for a
> >> couple of years now.
> >> Novation's AutoMap has been a blessing at getting every parameter of
> VST
> >> plugs onto hardware knobs and buttons, but it is no help at finding
> and
> >> navigating interface menus, dialogs, and other bit map screen monkey
> >> puzzles one needs for total access.
> >> Indi
> >>
> >>
> >> On 12/28/2013 4:31 PM, Jackie McBride wrote:
> >>> Unfortunately, Jaws 10 is pretty old & may not be picking up on stuff
> >>> it needs to pick up on. Having said that, though, Crystall, there are
> >>> some settings I'd advise u to change in Jaws. First, u should
> consider
> >>> setting graphics to all--not labeled, & definitively not none. Also,
> >>> try going into your verbosity preferences & check to read the
> >>> tooltips. Lastly, try seeing what happens if u set jaws to follow pc.
> >>> U might get some tooltips to read & be able to figure out what some
> of
> >>> those unlabeled graphics do, & then u can label 'em. Unset that
> option
> >>> when you're done, though, or it'll drive u absolutely nutso.
> >>>
> >>> U might also try NVDA & see if that provides any better results.
> >>>
> >>> On 12/28/13, Crystal Dennis <valkyriecelesyt at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> I feel like that may be the problem: I have gone into the
> preferences
> >>>> dialogues and can only see very sparce things with the JAWS cursor.
> >>>> In that case: Does anyone know an accessible set of orchestra
> sinths
> >>>> I can test out?
> >>>>
> >>>> On 12/28/13, Gianluca Apollaro <gianluca.apollaro88 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi list,
> >>>>> if some synths are working and some other arn't it probably means
> that
> >>>>> the not working ones have a non accessible interface and that you
> have
> >>>>> to click on some graphics to make them load their sounds.
> >>>>> Hth,
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>> Gianluca from Italy.
> >>>>> Skype Id: gianluca8815
> >>>>> Il 28/12/2013 04:46, Crystal Dennis ha scritto:
> >>>>>> Yeah and every other sinth is working, so I'm wondering if I
> should
> >>>>>> just try another package until I find one that works...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 12/27/13, Drew <amockery at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> That is very odd. "Default" is, well, the default--in other words
> >>>>>>> it's
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> shortcut that points to whatever you've set as your default
> device.
> >>>>>>> If
> >>>>>>> there
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> are no devices, that's meaningless. You must have some sound
> device
> >>>>>>> otherwise you would not be able to hear JAWS, but for it to not
> show
> >>>>>>> up
> >>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>> quite strange.
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> From: "Crystal Dennis" <valkyriecelesyt at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 7:16 PM
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Help with Sinth VSTs
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> When I pull down the sound device menus I have:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Primary Sound capture driver -- when Direct Sound is selected
> >>>>>>>> Microsoft Sound Mapper -- When Wave out is selected.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> those are the only 2 sound devices that show up and on midi I
> have:
> >>>>>>>> Microsoft Wavable Sinth Disabled (I tried right clicking and no
> >>>>>>>> menus
> >>>>>>>> came up at all....I'm also using JAWS 10)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The only things I can't get working are the sound libraries, and
> I
> >>>>>>>> feel like there's something vital that I'm missing due to my
> >>>>>>>> newbe-ness in this subject....sorry if this is too many
> questions!
> >>>>>>>> But all I get are drop down menus in preferences, no way to
> right
> >>>>>>>> click anything even with the JAWS cursor
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 12/27/13, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Crystal, do you have a sound card that you installed into your
> >>>>>>>>> computer,
> >>>>>>>>> or is there only the RealTech sound chip?
> >>>>>>>>> If you have a third-party soundcard installed, or just
> RealTech,
> >>>>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>> need to get it recognized in Reaper's preferences.
> >>>>>>>>> You can play VST synths using the RealTech chip, but with large
> >>>>>>>>> delay
> >>>>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>>> latency; between the moment you hit the note on the keyboard
> and
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> moment you hear the note.
> >>>>>>>>> To get either your installed soundcard or the built in RealTech
> >>>>>>>>> chip
> >>>>>>>>> enabled, press ctrl+P.
> >>>>>>>>> Then navigate to audio.
> >>>>>>>>> Then tab down to the field that shows either your soundcard, or
> >>>>>>>>> RealTech, and get enabled; instead of Disabled, after its name;
> by
> >>>>>>>>> routing focus to the number pad.
> >>>>>>>>> The method will depend on your screenreader, but it's similar
> in
> >>>>>>>>> Wineyes, Jaws and NVDA.
> >>>>>>>>> Then focus at the numPad on the soundcard's name, or Disabled.
> >>>>>>>>> Then right click at the number pad
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The Configure Dialog should appear.
> >>>>>>>>> Press enter on the Configure Dialog, and when it opens, place
> >>>>>>>>> checkmarks
> >>>>>>>>> on use as audio device, etcetera.
> >>>>>>>>> Then arrow down to Midi Device and follow the same procedure
> for
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> inputs and outputs for midi.
> >>>>>>>>> Get Disabled routed over to the number Pad, then focus on the
> >>>>>>>>> soundcard's name or Disabled, then right click and you should
> get
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> midi configuration Dialog.
> >>>>>>>>> Hit enter on it.
> >>>>>>>>> When it opens, place checkmarks with your spacebar on Use as
> midi
> >>>>>>>>> device, etcetera.
> >>>>>>>>> Then tab down to OK and hit enter, and you'll be taken back to
> the
> >>>>>>>>> track
> >>>>>>>>> view.
> >>>>>>>>> To get a synth to load, you need to install it in a folder, or
> >>>>>>>>> copy/paste its .dll into a folder, so Reaper can find it.
> >>>>>>>>> I keep all VST's in C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins
> which,
> >>>>>>>>> if
> >>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>> typed it correctly, is the exact path to my synths folder.
> >>>>>>>>> To type in the path to where you are keeping VST plugIns, press
> >>>>>>>>> ctrl+P,
> >>>>>>>>> then arrow down to VST, then tab down to where Reaper asks you
> to
> >>>>>>>>> type
> >>>>>>>>> in a path to your VST plugIns.
> >>>>>>>>> Same here as when getting a soundcard enabled, be sure to click
> >>>>>>>>> enter
> >>>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>> OK before exiting.
> >>>>>>>>> To load a synth, press the letter F while on a selected track
> and
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> load dialog opens.
> >>>>>>>>> Navigate with tab and arrows to the desired plugIn and hit
> enter
> >>>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>> it,
> >>>>>>>>> and it loads to the selected track.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Now, while arrowed to the track with the loaded plug, tab and
> >>>>>>>>> you'll
> >>>>>>>>> get
> >>>>>>>>> various recording options.
> >>>>>>>>> Set monitor to Normal with your arrow keys, so you can hear the
> >>>>>>>>> synth
> >>>>>>>>> play.
> >>>>>>>>> Be sure to hit enter to keep your settings.
> >>>>>>>>> I can't tell you what to set as the recording source, since
> I've
> >>>>>>>>> never
> >>>>>>>>> used the virtual keyboard, and have no idea how to set up a
> synth
> >>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> play from virtual keyboard.
> >>>>>>>>> Sorry,
> >>>>>>>>> Indi
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 12/26/2013 7:52 PM, Crystal Dennis wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Hi again! I seriously need some help, so hopefully I came to
> the
> >>>>>>>>>> right place :)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I have been using reaper for awhile, and I recently wanted to
> >>>>>>>>>> start
> >>>>>>>>>> composing my own music tracks with instrument sinths. I'm
> using
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> virtual keyboard, and have downloaded a few sinth sets but...I
> >>>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>>> had this same problem with all of them: They haven't been
> >>>>>>>>>> playing
> >>>>>>>>>> when I load the track into reaper! Here's what I've been
> doing:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> - Installing the software (I've tried Eastwest and Miroslave
> >>>>>>>>>> Filharmonic with the same results for both - no audio)
> >>>>>>>>>> - Then I've tinkered with my audio device settings with no
> >>>>>>>>>> results.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Now I am very, very new with dealing with sinths, so my
> questions
> >>>>>>>>>> are:
> >>>>>>>>>> Do I need some new software that reaper doesn't have? I
> >>>>>>>>>> don't
> >>>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>>> any Aceo drivers, could that be why? or does the Virtual
> >>>>>>>>>> Keyboard
> >>>>>>>>>> just not work for all plugins...I've tried spicy guitar also
> and
> >>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>> doesn't play either. Sound magics VSTs have worked for me,
> but
> >>>>>>>>>> that's
> >>>>>>>>>> about it really. There's something that says 32 Out and 8 Out
> >>>>>>>>>> next
> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> some of the files, what does that mean? Are there any other
> >>>>>>>>>> orchestra
> >>>>>>>>>> sinth packs that work better with Reaper I could try out? I
> >>>>>>>>>> really
> >>>>>>>>>> just want to get something working because right now I have a
> ton
> >>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>> GB taken up with nothing to show for it. So mainly I'm a noob
> >>>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>> sinths who needs help!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Sorry for this novel! Any help would be greatly appreciated
> :)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Crystal
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
> >>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
> >>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
> >>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
> >>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> RWP mailing list
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> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> RWP mailing list
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> RWP mailing list
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> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> RWP mailing list
> >>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
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>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Keith
> Home Phone:
> 928-554-3936
> Mobile Phone:
> 928-713-6370
> Primary email:
> keithint1234 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Sincerely,
Keith
Home Phone:
928-554-3936
Mobile Phone:
928-713-6370
Primary email:
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