[RWP] Help with Sinth VSTs

Drew amockery at gmail.com
Mon Dec 30 19:21:25 EST 2013 

Yeah, windows is definitely the way to go for audio if you're blind.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Hinton" <keithint1234 at gmail.com>
To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] Help with Sinth VSTs


> Hi,
> I wanted to point outsomething important about you buyig a Mac if
> that's something you intend to do.
> The example applications we'll use are Apple's GarageBand and Logic
> software, but you need to understand that not everything is sighted
> help free, even on OS X.
> Basicly, GarageBand used to be useable, we had effects, compressors,
> and other things we could apply to music/audio.
> However, when Logic ten and GarageBand ten came out (total software
> rewrites), the effects, compressors, amp moddlers, and so on,
> disappeared as far as Voiceover goes. Why? Because, Apple, much like
> how this has been the case for Windows apps for years requiring
> scripting as a result, has been visually making the interfaces
> "visually appealing.".
> This means, that amongst other things, all the controls are
> non-standard, so VoiceOver will ever find them. They actually
> digitally made BitMap nobs and other nice visually appealing graphic
> icons for things in GarageBand, but this also means they have done the
> same for the effects and compresors, etc.
> We are left quite literally pounding button after button after button
> after button, hoping to hell things happen when they happen, etc, as
> of the rewrite.
> The fact of the matter is, only sighted folks are having no trouble
> with the latest Logic or GarageBand programs on OS X respectively.
> And you'll be stuck with this horrible rewrite of an application, as
> it ships on all new Macs with OS X 10.9.
> Most of the keyboard shortcuts do not speak anymore, either as of the
> GarageBand ten release rewrite either.
> Conflicting reports exist for logic, but I'm just pointing out that if
> you don't think that sighted help isn't also an issue on OS X, do not
> be so sure of what you say before thinking about it first.
> Voiceover isn't all it's cracked up to be necessarily, depending on
> the circumstances in witch you use it.
> there will always be an application that you or I cannot access
> without sighted help to what extent depends on how many nonstandard
> controls were used.
> I'm predicting that someday, scripting heavily around badly coded
> interfaces for OS X applications somehow will be the norm in the
> future.
> Just some interesting thoughts to consider.
>
>
> On 12/30/13, Crystal Dennis <valkyriecelesyt at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks for all the help guys.  I've been having issues with accessing
>> the preference windows even with the JAWS cursors and clicking star
>> and everything, and putting graphics on read all didn't do anything in
>> Eastwest.  I wasn't aware that this would be an issue with sinths, so
>> I am a little sad because I wanted to really use some orchestra
>> sinths:  The accessible ones I have right now are more dance sinths (I
>> have z3TA plus) I am currently on the hunt for any accessible
>> orchestra sinths, so any help with that would be appreciated.  I'm
>> also debating having a sighted friend just set it up for me, but it's
>> ashame that that has to be the solution to these sorts of problems
>> other than just buying a mac that has more on board accessibility lol.
>>
>> I will continue troubleshooting/testing sinths though, thanks everyone!
>>
>> On 12/29/13, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>> Jackie, I once experimented with enabling audio devices and midi devices
>>> in Reaper with Wineyes 6.1, Jaws 10 and NVDA 2012.
>>> The method was very similar in each for routing disabled over to the
>>> number pad, focusing on it there, then pressing the star key for a right
>>> click to bring up the configuration dialog.
>>> I don't think its either easier or more difficult with any of those, and
>>> I didn't find any impossible moves in Reaper for those particular
>>> screenreaders.
>>>
>>> For making VST synths play that don't easily display their presets, I
>>> found it was hit and miss as to which screenreader displayed what
>>> interface parameters.
>>> Wineyes previous and next clip is the most useful screenreader move I
>>> found for locating elusive interface icons, but  I'm not skilled enough
>>> in Jaws to utilize all its potential in its numPad cursors, nor did I
>>> ever learn to use its OCR function.
>>> I don't know if anyone has yet found all that NVDA's object navigation
>>> can do, and I'm constantly surprised at what I can read with NVDA.
>>> On this online surfing computer I now have only NVDA and Google Chrome,
>>> which together move like a lightening boltaround web pages.
>>> Reaper itself dumps all automatable parameters is an awkward to use
>>> list, but I never found any of those listed parameters useful to get an
>>> uncooperative synth to expose its presets, so you can play them.
>>> Either by accident when roaming around the interface and left clicking,
>>> or with sighted help, I've got preset inc and dec arrows located, in
>>> several synths, like NI's Massive, FM8 and Absynth 5, plus Zebra, Nexus,
>>> and others; and found ways to get back to those preset buttons, which is
>>> at least miminal access.
>>> With as many accessible VST synths that are available, like Z3TA, which
>>> readily exposes all its presets, same with Gladiator,Firebird, and many
>>> others, one could say why frustrate oneself with uncooperative synths.
>>> Still, some synths sound so beautiful we get sucked into unraveling
>>> their puzzle.
>>> With me it's Camel Audio's Alchemy, which I have been working on for a
>>> couple of years now.
>>> Novation's AutoMap has been a blessing at getting every parameter of VST
>>> plugs onto hardware knobs and buttons, but it is no help at finding and
>>> navigating interface menus, dialogs, and other bit map  screen monkey
>>> puzzles one needs for total access.
>>> Indi
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/28/2013 4:31 PM, Jackie McBride wrote:
>>>> Unfortunately, Jaws 10 is pretty old & may not be picking up on stuff
>>>> it needs to pick up on. Having said that, though, Crystall, there are
>>>> some settings I'd advise u to change in Jaws. First, u should consider
>>>> setting graphics to all--not labeled, & definitively not none. Also,
>>>> try going into your verbosity preferences & check to read the
>>>> tooltips. Lastly, try seeing what happens if u set jaws to follow pc.
>>>> U might get some tooltips to read & be able to figure out what some of
>>>> those unlabeled graphics do, & then u can label 'em. Unset that option
>>>> when you're done, though, or it'll drive u absolutely nutso.
>>>>
>>>> U might also try NVDA & see if that provides any better results.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/28/13, Crystal Dennis <valkyriecelesyt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I feel like that may be the problem:  I have gone into the preferences
>>>>> dialogues and can only see very sparce things with the JAWS cursor.
>>>>> In that case:  Does anyone know an accessible set of orchestra sinths
>>>>> I can test out?
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/28/13, Gianluca Apollaro <gianluca.apollaro88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi list,
>>>>>> if some synths are working and some other arn't it probably means 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> the not working ones have a non accessible interface and that you 
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to click on some graphics to make them load their sounds.
>>>>>> Hth,
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Gianluca from Italy.
>>>>>> Skype Id: gianluca8815
>>>>>> Il 28/12/2013 04:46, Crystal Dennis ha scritto:
>>>>>>> Yeah and every other sinth is working, so I'm wondering if I should
>>>>>>> just try another package until I find one that works...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/27/13, Drew <amockery at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> That is very odd. "Default" is, well, the default--in other words
>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> shortcut that points to whatever you've set as your default device.
>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> are no devices, that's meaningless. You must have some sound device
>>>>>>>> otherwise you would not be able to hear JAWS, but for it to not 
>>>>>>>> show
>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> quite strange.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Crystal Dennis" <valkyriecelesyt at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 7:16 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Help with Sinth VSTs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When I pull down the sound device menus I have:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Primary Sound capture driver -- when Direct Sound is selected
>>>>>>>>> Microsoft Sound Mapper -- When Wave out is selected.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> those are the only 2 sound devices that show up and on midi I 
>>>>>>>>> have:
>>>>>>>>> Microsoft Wavable Sinth Disabled (I tried right clicking and no
>>>>>>>>> menus
>>>>>>>>> came up at all....I'm also using JAWS 10)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The only things I can't get working are the sound libraries, and I
>>>>>>>>> feel like there's something vital that I'm missing due to my
>>>>>>>>> newbe-ness in this subject....sorry if this is too many questions!
>>>>>>>>> But all I get are drop down menus in preferences, no way to right
>>>>>>>>> click anything even with the JAWS cursor
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 12/27/13, Indigo <33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Crystal, do you have a sound card that you installed into your
>>>>>>>>>> computer,
>>>>>>>>>> or is there only the RealTech sound chip?
>>>>>>>>>> If you have a third-party soundcard installed, or just RealTech,
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> need to get it recognized in Reaper's preferences.
>>>>>>>>>> You can play VST synths using the RealTech chip, but with large
>>>>>>>>>> delay
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> latency; between the moment you hit the note on the keyboard and
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> moment you hear the note.
>>>>>>>>>> To get either your installed soundcard or the built in RealTech
>>>>>>>>>> chip
>>>>>>>>>> enabled, press ctrl+P.
>>>>>>>>>> Then navigate to audio.
>>>>>>>>>> Then tab down to the field that shows either your soundcard, or
>>>>>>>>>> RealTech, and get enabled; instead of Disabled, after its name; 
>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>> routing focus to the number pad.
>>>>>>>>>> The method will depend on your screenreader, but it's similar in
>>>>>>>>>> Wineyes, Jaws and NVDA.
>>>>>>>>>> Then focus at the numPad on the soundcard's name, or Disabled.
>>>>>>>>>> Then right click at the number pad
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Configure Dialog should appear.
>>>>>>>>>> Press enter on the Configure Dialog, and when it opens, place
>>>>>>>>>> checkmarks
>>>>>>>>>> on use as audio device, etcetera.
>>>>>>>>>> Then arrow down to Midi Device and follow the same procedure for
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> inputs and outputs for midi.
>>>>>>>>>> Get Disabled routed over to the number Pad, then focus on the
>>>>>>>>>> soundcard's name or Disabled, then right click and you should get
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> midi configuration Dialog.
>>>>>>>>>> Hit enter on it.
>>>>>>>>>> When it opens, place checkmarks with your spacebar on Use as midi
>>>>>>>>>> device, etcetera.
>>>>>>>>>> Then tab down to OK and hit enter, and you'll be taken back to 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> track
>>>>>>>>>> view.
>>>>>>>>>> To get a synth to load, you need to install it in a folder, or
>>>>>>>>>> copy/paste its .dll into a folder, so Reaper can find it.
>>>>>>>>>> I keep all VST's in C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins which,
>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> typed it correctly, is the exact path to my synths folder.
>>>>>>>>>> To type in the path to where you are keeping VST plugIns, press
>>>>>>>>>> ctrl+P,
>>>>>>>>>> then arrow down to VST, then tab down to where Reaper asks you to
>>>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>>> in a path to your VST plugIns.
>>>>>>>>>> Same here as when getting a soundcard enabled, be sure to click
>>>>>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> OK before exiting.
>>>>>>>>>> To load a synth, press the letter F while on a selected track and
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> load dialog opens.
>>>>>>>>>> Navigate with tab and arrows to the desired plugIn and hit enter
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>> and it loads to the selected track.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now, while arrowed to the track with the loaded plug, tab and
>>>>>>>>>> you'll
>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>> various recording options.
>>>>>>>>>> Set monitor to Normal with your arrow keys, so you can hear the
>>>>>>>>>> synth
>>>>>>>>>> play.
>>>>>>>>>> Be sure to hit enter to keep your settings.
>>>>>>>>>> I can't tell you what to set as the recording source, since I've
>>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>>> used the virtual keyboard, and have no idea how to set up a synth
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> play from virtual keyboard.
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry,
>>>>>>>>>> Indi
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/26/2013 7:52 PM, Crystal Dennis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi again!  I seriously need some help, so hopefully I came to 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> right place :)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have been using reaper for awhile, and I recently wanted to
>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>> composing my own music tracks with instrument sinths.  I'm using
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> virtual keyboard, and have downloaded a few sinth sets but...I
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> had this same problem with all of them:  They haven't been
>>>>>>>>>>> playing
>>>>>>>>>>> when I load the track into reaper!  Here's what I've been doing:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Installing the software (I've tried Eastwest and Miroslave
>>>>>>>>>>> Filharmonic with the same results for both - no audio)
>>>>>>>>>>> - Then I've tinkered with my audio device settings with no
>>>>>>>>>>> results.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Now I am very, very new with dealing with sinths, so my 
>>>>>>>>>>> questions
>>>>>>>>>>> are:
>>>>>>>>>>>     Do I need some new software that reaper doesn't have?  I
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> any Aceo drivers, could that be why?  or does the Virtual
>>>>>>>>>>> Keyboard
>>>>>>>>>>> just not work for all plugins...I've tried spicy guitar also and
>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't play either.  Sound magics VSTs have worked for me, but
>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>>>>> about it really.  There's something that says 32 Out and 8 Out
>>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> some of the files, what does that mean?  Are there any other
>>>>>>>>>>> orchestra
>>>>>>>>>>> sinth packs that work better with Reaper I could try out?  I
>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>> just want to get something working because right now I have a 
>>>>>>>>>>> ton
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> GB taken up with nothing to show for it.  So mainly I'm a noob
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> sinths who needs help!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry for this novel!  Any help would be greatly appreciated :)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Crystal
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>
>
> -- 
> Sincerely,
>
> Keith
> Home Phone:
> 928-554-3936
> Mobile Phone:
> 928-713-6370
> Primary email:
> keithint1234 at gmail.com
>
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