[RWP] And the Reaper access wiki is live

Wed Mar 28 06:46:32 EDT 2012

My solution is to switch back and forth quickly.
When I can't find something in NVDA, I close it with the NVDA shortcut 
and pop into winize, then  back again, just like anybody reaching for a 
screw driver instead of a pair of pliars, whatever tool works best.
I've had them both running at once, temporarily, and they don't seem to 
fight each other, wouldn't it be nice to have a toggle switch?
Indigo L

Indigo L.

On 3/27/2012 10:48 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
> Yep, righto about NVDA and object nav. It's a nicely snappy environment,
> when it works.
> I'm definitely not an NVDA expert. But, in what playing around I did,
> stuff that was represented by a logical object could be found, and
> clicked on just fine.
> Unfortunately, there is quite a bit of screen text in the world that
> isn't associated with an object. Then, there are graphics. And, I didn't
> find a way to locate that stuff with NVDA.
> BTW, JAWS is perfectly capable of navigating by objects, because the
> support is there at the scriptin level. I do it all the time myself.
> I have often wondered why FS doesn't create an optional mode you could
> enter that did all that.
> I provided it for myself through a set of default scripts. A set that
> somewhat needs a face lift for UIA. It's another of those lovely round
> tooit problems.
> But, you would think that would help quell the NVDA fever. But, of
> course, they still couldn't compete on price.
>
> So far, I'm still of the opinion that, while an off screen model has its
> problems, less responsive in some situations, and a tendency to not
> always stay in sync, an off screen model, where you can get down to the
> pixel level, and work outside the object model when you need to, is
> extremely valuable.
>
> One man's opinion.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerry Hoath" <khoath at gmail.com>
> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [RWP] And the Reaper access wiki is live
>
>
>> The simple fact is you don't understand object nav with NVDA. Also you
>> can navigate using nvda to various objects, then use nvda+numpad star
>> to route the mouse to the object nav location, this doesn't happen by
>> default in NVDA as the object nav does not move the mouse cursor.
>>
>> Putting everything into flat review actually gives you less
>> information on how the ap is layed out however it's one of those
>> knee-jerk reactions many resort to when they've had the screen mashed
>> by windoweyes/flaws/system excess.
>>
>> Basically object nav works just like it does on the mac except you are
>> interacting at the bottom of the object tree, insert 8 to go up a
>> level, 4 and 6 next and previous object. there's a cavicast on the
>> subject if anyone cares in the 2011 archive, explains object nav well
>> and shows usage.
>> I haven't tried NVDA with reaper but will do so see how much of the
>> interface is exposed.
>>
>> On 27/03/2012 4:50 PM, indigo wrote:
>>> Okay, Jim, we'll say route the mouse cursor to the PC cursor, and right
>>> > click, and keep Reaper screenreater independent.
>>> Have you tried NVDA, though?
>>> I dearly love its quickness, but feel half blinded by it's lack of
>>> number pad screen information
>>> When buttons that appear at the tab key or arrow keys fail to respond
>>> to the enter key, in Window-Eyes; I have always instantly reach for
>>> the number pad and click there, but so far can't do that in NVDA.
>>> I find lack of response to enter key happening occasionally in
>>> Reaper, also in Reason 6, with Window-Eyes.
>>> Does that ever occur in JFW?
>>>
>>> I guess NVDA users in Reaper will somehow handle such issues themselves.
>>> NVDA often makes up for lack of number pad info by reading more at
>>> the arrows and tab key, though.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Indigo L
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/26/2012 10:03 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>> Really, I think there is nothing terribly Window-eyes-ish about this.
>>>> The WE cursur is just the screen reder taking over the mouse, which is
>>>> exactly what the jaws cursor is.
>>>> So, if you just said, route the mouse cursor to the PC cursor, and
>>>> right
>>>> click, I think you would have it.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:36 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] And the Reaper access wiki is live
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Jim, there's the little hassle about getting midi devices enabled in
>>>>> Reaper's options/preferences.
>>>>> Using my Window-eyes method; about arrowing to the device name, then
>>>>> routing that to the pc cursor at the number pad, then finding the
>>>>> device name at the number pad and right clicking it, then going back
>>>>> to the arrow keys where you will find a configure device dialog.
>>>>> You press enter on the configure dialog, then; go to the tab key, add
>>>>> check marks to configure this device for midi messages, and sometimes,
>>>>> configure this device for controller messages.
>>>>> We have many Jaws users, so they're obviously enabling their midi
>>>>> devices somehow.
>>>>> It would be a real blessing for beginning Reaper users if you would
>>>>> please go to that midi device edit box and write a neat method in Jaws
>>>>> terms?
>>>>> I am a beginning driver in Jaws 13 demo, but if it was a car I'd
>>>>> advise everyone in my path to head for the hills! smile.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have any idea how NVDA users are enabling midi devices.
>>>>> I use NVDA every day for email, I'm on it this second, but I've yet to
>>>>> get 1 little bit of screen information from its flat review.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/2012 9:40 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>> This is a problem, creating directions that are screen reader
>>>>>> independent. Frankly, if you choose to get right down to which key to
>>>>>> press, that's probably impossible.
>>>>>> And we don't really want documentation that is complicated by lots
>>>>>> of,
>>>>>> if you are using jaws, if you are using NVDA, if you are using
>>>>>> blinkies
>>>>>> bit blat, etc etc.
>>>>>> That interferes with the flow of concept, which really troubles
>>>>>> limited
>>>>>> brains like mine.
>>>>>> NVDA does have flat mode, which does give some limited ability to do
>>>>>> mouse clicks on things. But, NVDA users know all about that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, maybe if we just generalize those statements a bit, we can get
>>>>>> around it.
>>>>>> Indigo, As for your statements about limited time and energy, man oh
>>>>>> man, can I relate to that in spades. I'm with ya, brother.
>>>>>> And I have a great dog, a golden retriever who just had a bath.
>>>>>> And, I
>>>>>> have my priorities. <grin>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But, I'm a jaws user. So, if you have some things you want me to
>>>>>> review,
>>>>>> and edit for generalization, I can sure put it in the queue here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 7:22 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] And the Reaper access wiki is live
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kerry, I've been keeping my hundreds of notes and tips on running
>>>>>>> ReaAccess as .txt text files, or .rtf files, with titles that mean
>>>>>>> something to me, and hopefully others.
>>>>>>> I'll try some basic getting started infos and learn how it goes with
>>>>>>> the mark up language.
>>>>>>> But, if I just don't have the time to post them in this exact markup
>>>>>>> format, and still have time to make music, and take part in my
>>>>>>> family
>>>>>>> life, I don't know what I'can do.
>>>>>>> My tiny bit of energy is stretched very thin as it is.
>>>>>>> I have been looking at Reaper and ReaAccess with Jaws, NVDA and
>>>>>>> Window-Eyes, and I find there are places I don't comprehend how
>>>>>>> to get
>>>>>>> a few of the basic things done in Jaws or NVDA.
>>>>>>> For Example, When configuring one's midi interface, the word Enabled
>>>>>>> must appear after the name of the midi interface.
>>>>>>> Now I know very well how to get Enabled to appear while on
>>>>>>> Window-Eyes, but I can't make out how it's done with Jaws or NVDA.
>>>>>>> I'll put in my little procedure that works for Window-Eyes at that
>>>>>>> basic configuration instance; and someone better at operating Jaws
>>>>>>> will need to provide the details on how it's done in Jaws.
>>>>>>> All you Jaws experts are running Reaper, so you must know how you
>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>> your midi interface enabled, right?
>>>>>>> Other than that single midi device configuration situation, I don't
>>>>>>> find significant differences in what Jaws, Window-Eyes or NVDA sees,
>>>>>>> at least with NVDA's tab key and arrows, though I can't get enough
>>>>>>> information from NVDA because it doesn't have Jaws and Wineyes-style
>>>>>>> PC cursor screen information available at the number pad.
>>>>>>> And yet, Patrick Perdue uses NVDA exclusively in Reaper, and we have
>>>>>>> System Access users as well.
>>>>>>> So, I guess I'm saying that I had no idea wiki entries would be so
>>>>>>> exacting, but I'll try, but if I can't get my entries in the wiki as
>>>>>>> neat and in the exact format required, and expressed for all
>>>>>>> screenreaders, and still manage to find time to make some music,
>>>>>>> play
>>>>>>> with my dog, and the rest of life, I may need to zip up all my notes
>>>>>>> on running Reaper and send them to someone who has more wiki talents
>>>>>>> to post them than I do
>>>>>>> Or, I'll post them zipped on SendSpace, and insert a link in our
>>>>>>> wiki,
>>>>>>> or or in pages on a friend's FaceBook, for anyone to use them as
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> please.
>>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/2012 6:20 AM, Kerry Hoath wrote:
>>>>>>>> This is a note to say that the Reaper access wiki is live and ready
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> people to start editing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It can be found at
>>>>>>>> http://www.cucat.org/reacwiki
>>>>>>>> The edit password is reaper in lowercase and just as soon as I
>>>>>>>> figure
>>>>>>>> out how to create a page with this information I'll link to the
>>>>>>>> passwored page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Editing is relatively easy, here is a really quick summary but you
>>>>>>>> really should read the basic editing guide.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lines that start with spaces like this are pre-formatted text
>>>>>>>> and will
>>>>>>>> not be wrapped.
>>>>>>>> Note you'll need to read by character or set punctuation to
>>>>>>>> most/all to
>>>>>>>> see the following:
>>>>>>>> !heading this is a level 1
>>>>>>>> !!this is a level 2
>>>>>>>> !!!this is a level 3
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * this is the first item in an unordered list
>>>>>>>> * this is the second item.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> # this is item 1 in a numbered list
>>>>>>>> # This is item 2 in a numbered list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> double backslash \\ will insert a line break.
>>>>>>>> A bare URL like
>>>>>>>> http://www.reaccess.com/ will link off to another website.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [[http://www.reaccess.com/|reaccess homepage]]
>>>>>>>> puts the link in and changes the link text.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To create a new page put something in like
>>>>>>>> [[Getting started with Reaper]]
>>>>>>>> a questionmark will show up next to the link after save, hit
>>>>>>>> enter to
>>>>>>>> create the new page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please put your names on edits or I'll have to make author names
>>>>>>>> manditory.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I hope we all find this resource useful. If this really takes
>>>>>>>> off I'm
>>>>>>>> happy to either buy a domain or change pointers to the wiki or tar
>>>>>>>> it up
>>>>>>>> for someone else to host.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I want to add links to Cavi's reaper presentations if people think
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> belongs on the wiki, CAVI did 3 presentations on how to get started
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> Reaper 3.77 and reaccess.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> regards, Kerry.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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