[RWP] And the Reaper access wiki is live

Tue Mar 27 22:48:36 EDT 2012

Yep,  righto about NVDA and object nav.  It's a nicely snappy environment, 
when it works.
I'm definitely not an NVDA expert.  But, in what playing around I did, stuff 
that was represented by a logical object could be found, and clicked on just 
fine.
Unfortunately, there is quite a bit of screen text in the world that isn't 
associated with an object.  Then, there are graphics.  And, I didn't find a 
way to locate that stuff with NVDA.
BTW, JAWS is perfectly capable of navigating by objects, because the support 
is there at the scriptin level.  I do it all the time myself.
I have often wondered why FS doesn't create an optional mode you could enter 
that did all that.
I provided it for myself through a set of default scripts.  A set that 
somewhat needs a face lift for UIA.  It's another of those lovely round 
tooit problems.
But, you would think that would help quell the NVDA fever.  But, of course, 
they still couldn't compete on price.

So far, I'm still of the opinion that, while an off screen model has its 
problems, less responsive in some situations, and a tendency to not always 
stay in sync, an off screen model, where you can get down to the pixel 
level, and work outside the object model when you need to,  is extremely 
valuable.

One man's opinion.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kerry Hoath" <khoath at gmail.com>
To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [RWP] And the Reaper access wiki is live

> The simple fact is you don't understand object nav with NVDA. Also you can 
> navigate using nvda to various objects, then use nvda+numpad star to route 
> the mouse to the object nav location, this doesn't happen by default in 
> NVDA as the object nav does not move the mouse cursor.
>
> Putting everything into flat review actually gives you less information on 
> how the ap is layed out however it's one of those knee-jerk reactions many 
> resort to when they've had the screen mashed by windoweyes/flaws/system 
> excess.
>
> Basically object nav works just like it does on the mac except you are 
> interacting at the bottom of the object tree, insert 8 to go up a level, 4 
> and 6 next and previous object. there's a cavicast on the subject if 
> anyone cares in the 2011 archive, explains object nav well and shows 
> usage.
> I haven't tried NVDA with reaper but will do so see how much of the 
> interface is exposed.
>
> On 27/03/2012 4:50 PM, indigo wrote:
>> Okay, Jim, we'll say route the mouse cursor to the PC cursor, and right
>> > click, and keep Reaper screenreater independent.
>> Have you tried NVDA, though?
>> I dearly love its quickness, but feel half blinded by it's lack of number 
>> pad screen information
>> When buttons that appear at the tab key or arrow keys fail to respond to 
>> the enter key, in Window-Eyes; I have always instantly reach for  the 
>> number pad and click there, but so far can't do that in NVDA.
>> I find lack of response to enter key  happening occasionally in Reaper, 
>> also in Reason 6, with Window-Eyes.
>> Does that ever occur in JFW?
>>
>> I guess NVDA users in Reaper will somehow handle such  issues 
>> themselves.
>> NVDA often makes up for lack of number pad info by reading more at the 
>> arrows and tab key, though.
>> Thanks,
>> Indigo L
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/26/2012 10:03 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>> Really, I think there is nothing terribly Window-eyes-ish about this.
>>> The WE cursur is just the screen reder taking over the mouse, which is
>>> exactly what the jaws cursor is.
>>> So, if you just said, route the mouse cursor to the PC cursor, and right
>>> click, I think you would have it.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:36 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] And the Reaper access wiki is live
>>>
>>>
>>>> Jim, there's the little hassle about getting midi devices enabled in
>>>> Reaper's options/preferences.
>>>> Using my Window-eyes method; about arrowing to the device name, then
>>>> routing that to the pc cursor at the number pad, then finding the
>>>> device name at the number pad and right clicking it, then going back
>>>> to the arrow keys where you will find a configure device dialog.
>>>> You press enter on the configure dialog, then; go to the tab key, add
>>>> check marks to configure this device for midi messages, and sometimes,
>>>> configure this device for controller messages.
>>>> We have many Jaws users, so they're obviously enabling their midi
>>>> devices somehow.
>>>> It would be a real blessing for beginning Reaper users if you would
>>>> please go to that midi device edit box and write a neat method in Jaws
>>>> terms?
>>>> I am a beginning driver in Jaws 13 demo, but if it was a car I'd
>>>> advise everyone in my path to head for the hills! smile.
>>>>
>>>> I don't have any idea how NVDA users are enabling midi devices.
>>>> I use NVDA every day for email, I'm on it this second, but I've yet to
>>>> get 1 little bit of screen information from its flat review.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Indigo L
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/2012 9:40 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>> This is a problem, creating directions that are screen reader
>>>>> independent. Frankly, if you choose to get right down to which key to
>>>>> press, that's probably impossible.
>>>>> And we don't really want documentation that is complicated by lots of,
>>>>> if you are using jaws, if you are using NVDA, if you are using 
>>>>> blinkies
>>>>> bit blat, etc etc.
>>>>> That interferes with the flow of concept, which really troubles 
>>>>> limited
>>>>> brains like mine.
>>>>> NVDA does have flat mode, which does give some limited ability to do
>>>>> mouse clicks on things. But, NVDA users know all about that.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, maybe if we just generalize those statements a bit, we can get
>>>>> around it.
>>>>> Indigo, As for your statements about limited time and energy, man oh
>>>>> man, can I relate to that in spades. I'm with ya, brother.
>>>>> And I have a great dog, a golden retriever who just had a bath. And, I
>>>>> have my priorities. <grin>
>>>>>
>>>>> But, I'm a jaws user. So, if you have some things you want me to 
>>>>> review,
>>>>> and edit for generalization, I can sure put it in the queue here.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 7:22 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] And the Reaper access wiki is live
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kerry, I've been keeping my hundreds of notes and tips on running
>>>>>> ReaAccess as .txt text files, or .rtf files, with titles that mean
>>>>>> something to me, and hopefully others.
>>>>>> I'll try some basic getting started infos and learn how it goes with
>>>>>> the mark up language.
>>>>>> But, if I just don't have the time to post them in this exact markup
>>>>>> format, and still have time to make music, and take part in my family
>>>>>> life, I don't know what I'can do.
>>>>>> My tiny bit of energy is stretched very thin as it is.
>>>>>> I have been looking at Reaper and ReaAccess with Jaws, NVDA and
>>>>>> Window-Eyes, and I find there are places I don't comprehend how to 
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> a few of the basic things done in Jaws or NVDA.
>>>>>> For Example, When configuring one's midi interface, the word Enabled
>>>>>> must appear after the name of the midi interface.
>>>>>> Now I know very well how to get Enabled to appear while on
>>>>>> Window-Eyes, but I can't make out how it's done with Jaws or NVDA.
>>>>>> I'll put in my little procedure that works for Window-Eyes at that
>>>>>> basic configuration instance; and someone better at operating Jaws
>>>>>> will need to provide the details on how it's done in Jaws.
>>>>>> All you Jaws experts are running Reaper, so you must know how you got
>>>>>> your midi interface enabled, right?
>>>>>> Other than that single midi device configuration situation, I don't
>>>>>> find significant differences in what Jaws, Window-Eyes or NVDA sees,
>>>>>> at least with NVDA's tab key and arrows, though I can't get enough
>>>>>> information from NVDA because it doesn't have Jaws and Wineyes-style
>>>>>> PC cursor screen information available at the number pad.
>>>>>> And yet, Patrick Perdue uses NVDA exclusively in Reaper, and we have
>>>>>> System Access users as well.
>>>>>> So, I guess I'm saying that I had no idea wiki entries would be so
>>>>>> exacting, but I'll try, but if I can't get my entries in the wiki as
>>>>>> neat and in the exact format required, and expressed for all
>>>>>> screenreaders, and still manage to find time to make some music, play
>>>>>> with my dog, and the rest of life, I may need to zip up all my notes
>>>>>> on running Reaper and send them to someone who has more wiki talents
>>>>>> to post them than I do
>>>>>> Or, I'll post them zipped on SendSpace, and insert a link in our 
>>>>>> wiki,
>>>>>> or or in pages on a friend's FaceBook, for anyone to use them as they
>>>>>> please.
>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/2012 6:20 AM, Kerry Hoath wrote:
>>>>>>> This is a note to say that the Reaper access wiki is live and ready
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> people to start editing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It can be found at
>>>>>>> http://www.cucat.org/reacwiki
>>>>>>> The edit password is reaper in lowercase and just as soon as I 
>>>>>>> figure
>>>>>>> out how to create a page with this information I'll link to the
>>>>>>> passwored page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Editing is relatively easy, here is a really quick summary but you
>>>>>>> really should read the basic editing guide.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lines that start with spaces like this are pre-formatted text and 
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> not be wrapped.
>>>>>>> Note you'll need to read by character or set punctuation to
>>>>>>> most/all to
>>>>>>> see the following:
>>>>>>> !heading this is a level 1
>>>>>>> !!this is a level 2
>>>>>>> !!!this is a level 3
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * this is the first item in an unordered list
>>>>>>> * this is the second item.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> # this is item 1 in a numbered list
>>>>>>> # This is item 2 in a numbered list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> double backslash \\ will insert a line break.
>>>>>>> A bare URL like
>>>>>>> http://www.reaccess.com/ will link off to another website.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [[http://www.reaccess.com/|reaccess homepage]]
>>>>>>> puts the link in and changes the link text.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To create a new page put something in like
>>>>>>> [[Getting started with Reaper]]
>>>>>>> a questionmark will show up next to the link after save, hit enter 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> create the new page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please put your names on edits or I'll have to make author names
>>>>>>> manditory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope we all find this resource useful. If this really takes off 
>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> happy to either buy a domain or change pointers to the wiki or tar
>>>>>>> it up
>>>>>>> for someone else to host.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I want to add links to Cavi's reaper presentations if people think
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> belongs on the wiki, CAVI did 3 presentations on how to get started
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> Reaper 3.77 and reaccess.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> regards, Kerry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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