[RWP] And the Reaper access wiki is live

Tue Mar 27 18:16:41 EDT 2012

Patrick, I've been running NVDA for months now exclusively for email, 
and sometimes on line, so I guess maybe I should read a manual, or 
listen to a tutorial.
Indigo L

On 3/27/2012 4:20 PM, Patrick Perdue wrote:
> I only use Reaper with NVDA, as I find it much faster than the same with
> Jaws, and even to a point, System Access. For the most part, I've really
> had no trouble getting around Reaper's native interface, and have found
> that NVDA reads some plugin UI's better by default than Jaws does,
> without scripting and such. I've seen both Jaws and System Access
> completely miss stuff on the screen that NVDA has found with object
> navigation, and therefore, can manipulate. It really is worth learning
> object nav as opposed to switching to flat review. I prefer it, but then
> again, I also use Voiceover on the Mac, so I'm used to it in both formats.
>
> On 3/27/2012 3:48 PM, indigo wrote:
>> Well, you're right about that, that I don't understand object navigation.
>> I'll google for that cavicast 2011 archive on the subject.
>> Thanks,
>> Indigo L
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/27/2012 10:21 AM, Kerry Hoath wrote:
>>> The simple fact is you don't understand object nav with NVDA. Also you
>>> can navigate using nvda to various objects, then use nvda+numpad star to
>>> route the mouse to the object nav location, this doesn't happen by
>>> default in NVDA as the object nav does not move the mouse cursor.
>>>
>>> Putting everything into flat review actually gives you less information
>>> on how the ap is layed out however it's one of those knee-jerk reactions
>>> many resort to when they've had the screen mashed by
>>> windoweyes/flaws/system excess.
>>>
>>> Basically object nav works just like it does on the mac except you are
>>> interacting at the bottom of the object tree, insert 8 to go up a level,
>>> 4 and 6 next and previous object. there's a cavicast on the subject if
>>> anyone cares in the 2011 archive, explains object nav well and shows
>>> usage.
>>> I haven't tried NVDA with reaper but will do so see how much of the
>>> interface is exposed.
>>>
>>> On 27/03/2012 4:50 PM, indigo wrote:
>>>> Okay, Jim, we'll say route the mouse cursor to the PC cursor, and right
>>>> > click, and keep Reaper screenreater independent.
>>>> Have you tried NVDA, though?
>>>> I dearly love its quickness, but feel half blinded by it's lack of
>>>> number pad screen information
>>>> When buttons that appear at the tab key or arrow keys fail to respond
>>>> to the enter key, in Window-Eyes; I have always instantly reach for
>>>> the number pad and click there, but so far can't do that in NVDA.
>>>> I find lack of response to enter key happening occasionally in Reaper,
>>>> also in Reason 6, with Window-Eyes.
>>>> Does that ever occur in JFW?
>>>>
>>>> I guess NVDA users in Reaper will somehow handle such issues
>>>> themselves.
>>>> NVDA often makes up for lack of number pad info by reading more at the
>>>> arrows and tab key, though.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Indigo L
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/26/2012 10:03 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>> Really, I think there is nothing terribly Window-eyes-ish about this.
>>>>> The WE cursur is just the screen reder taking over the mouse, which is
>>>>> exactly what the jaws cursor is.
>>>>> So, if you just said, route the mouse cursor to the PC cursor, and
>>>>> right
>>>>> click, I think you would have it.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:36 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] And the Reaper access wiki is live
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim, there's the little hassle about getting midi devices enabled in
>>>>>> Reaper's options/preferences.
>>>>>> Using my Window-eyes method; about arrowing to the device name, then
>>>>>> routing that to the pc cursor at the number pad, then finding the
>>>>>> device name at the number pad and right clicking it, then going back
>>>>>> to the arrow keys where you will find a configure device dialog.
>>>>>> You press enter on the configure dialog, then; go to the tab key, add
>>>>>> check marks to configure this device for midi messages, and
>>>>>> sometimes,
>>>>>> configure this device for controller messages.
>>>>>> We have many Jaws users, so they're obviously enabling their midi
>>>>>> devices somehow.
>>>>>> It would be a real blessing for beginning Reaper users if you would
>>>>>> please go to that midi device edit box and write a neat method in
>>>>>> Jaws
>>>>>> terms?
>>>>>> I am a beginning driver in Jaws 13 demo, but if it was a car I'd
>>>>>> advise everyone in my path to head for the hills! smile.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have any idea how NVDA users are enabling midi devices.
>>>>>> I use NVDA every day for email, I'm on it this second, but I've
>>>>>> yet to
>>>>>> get 1 little bit of screen information from its flat review.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/2012 9:40 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>> This is a problem, creating directions that are screen reader
>>>>>>> independent. Frankly, if you choose to get right down to which
>>>>>>> key to
>>>>>>> press, that's probably impossible.
>>>>>>> And we don't really want documentation that is complicated by lots
>>>>>>> of,
>>>>>>> if you are using jaws, if you are using NVDA, if you are using
>>>>>>> blinkies
>>>>>>> bit blat, etc etc.
>>>>>>> That interferes with the flow of concept, which really troubles
>>>>>>> limited
>>>>>>> brains like mine.
>>>>>>> NVDA does have flat mode, which does give some limited ability to do
>>>>>>> mouse clicks on things. But, NVDA users know all about that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, maybe if we just generalize those statements a bit, we can get
>>>>>>> around it.
>>>>>>> Indigo, As for your statements about limited time and energy, man oh
>>>>>>> man, can I relate to that in spades. I'm with ya, brother.
>>>>>>> And I have a great dog, a golden retriever who just had a bath.
>>>>>>> And, I
>>>>>>> have my priorities. <grin>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But, I'm a jaws user. So, if you have some things you want me to
>>>>>>> review,
>>>>>>> and edit for generalization, I can sure put it in the queue here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 7:22 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] And the Reaper access wiki is live
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kerry, I've been keeping my hundreds of notes and tips on running
>>>>>>>> ReaAccess as .txt text files, or .rtf files, with titles that mean
>>>>>>>> something to me, and hopefully others.
>>>>>>>> I'll try some basic getting started infos and learn how it goes
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> the mark up language.
>>>>>>>> But, if I just don't have the time to post them in this exact
>>>>>>>> markup
>>>>>>>> format, and still have time to make music, and take part in my
>>>>>>>> family
>>>>>>>> life, I don't know what I'can do.
>>>>>>>> My tiny bit of energy is stretched very thin as it is.
>>>>>>>> I have been looking at Reaper and ReaAccess with Jaws, NVDA and
>>>>>>>> Window-Eyes, and I find there are places I don't comprehend how to
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> a few of the basic things done in Jaws or NVDA.
>>>>>>>> For Example, When configuring one's midi interface, the word
>>>>>>>> Enabled
>>>>>>>> must appear after the name of the midi interface.
>>>>>>>> Now I know very well how to get Enabled to appear while on
>>>>>>>> Window-Eyes, but I can't make out how it's done with Jaws or NVDA.
>>>>>>>> I'll put in my little procedure that works for Window-Eyes at that
>>>>>>>> basic configuration instance; and someone better at operating Jaws
>>>>>>>> will need to provide the details on how it's done in Jaws.
>>>>>>>> All you Jaws experts are running Reaper, so you must know how you
>>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>>> your midi interface enabled, right?
>>>>>>>> Other than that single midi device configuration situation, I don't
>>>>>>>> find significant differences in what Jaws, Window-Eyes or NVDA
>>>>>>>> sees,
>>>>>>>> at least with NVDA's tab key and arrows, though I can't get enough
>>>>>>>> information from NVDA because it doesn't have Jaws and
>>>>>>>> Wineyes-style
>>>>>>>> PC cursor screen information available at the number pad.
>>>>>>>> And yet, Patrick Perdue uses NVDA exclusively in Reaper, and we
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> System Access users as well.
>>>>>>>> So, I guess I'm saying that I had no idea wiki entries would be so
>>>>>>>> exacting, but I'll try, but if I can't get my entries in the
>>>>>>>> wiki as
>>>>>>>> neat and in the exact format required, and expressed for all
>>>>>>>> screenreaders, and still manage to find time to make some music,
>>>>>>>> play
>>>>>>>> with my dog, and the rest of life, I may need to zip up all my
>>>>>>>> notes
>>>>>>>> on running Reaper and send them to someone who has more wiki
>>>>>>>> talents
>>>>>>>> to post them than I do
>>>>>>>> Or, I'll post them zipped on SendSpace, and insert a link in our
>>>>>>>> wiki,
>>>>>>>> or or in pages on a friend's FaceBook, for anyone to use them as
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> please.
>>>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/25/2012 6:20 AM, Kerry Hoath wrote:
>>>>>>>>> This is a note to say that the Reaper access wiki is live and
>>>>>>>>> ready
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> people to start editing.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It can be found at
>>>>>>>>> http://www.cucat.org/reacwiki
>>>>>>>>> The edit password is reaper in lowercase and just as soon as I
>>>>>>>>> figure
>>>>>>>>> out how to create a page with this information I'll link to the
>>>>>>>>> passwored page.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Editing is relatively easy, here is a really quick summary but you
>>>>>>>>> really should read the basic editing guide.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lines that start with spaces like this are pre-formatted text and
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> not be wrapped.
>>>>>>>>> Note you'll need to read by character or set punctuation to
>>>>>>>>> most/all to
>>>>>>>>> see the following:
>>>>>>>>> !heading this is a level 1
>>>>>>>>> !!this is a level 2
>>>>>>>>> !!!this is a level 3
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * this is the first item in an unordered list
>>>>>>>>> * this is the second item.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> # this is item 1 in a numbered list
>>>>>>>>> # This is item 2 in a numbered list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> double backslash \\ will insert a line break.
>>>>>>>>> A bare URL like
>>>>>>>>> http://www.reaccess.com/ will link off to another website.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [[http://www.reaccess.com/|reaccess homepage]]
>>>>>>>>> puts the link in and changes the link text.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To create a new page put something in like
>>>>>>>>> [[Getting started with Reaper]]
>>>>>>>>> a questionmark will show up next to the link after save, hit
>>>>>>>>> enter to
>>>>>>>>> create the new page.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please put your names on edits or I'll have to make author names
>>>>>>>>> manditory.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I hope we all find this resource useful. If this really takes off
>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>> happy to either buy a domain or change pointers to the wiki or tar
>>>>>>>>> it up
>>>>>>>>> for someone else to host.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I want to add links to Cavi's reaper presentations if people think
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> belongs on the wiki, CAVI did 3 presentations on how to get
>>>>>>>>> started
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> Reaper 3.77 and reaccess.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> regards, Kerry.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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