[RWP] introduction and a question?

Sat Mar 17 16:17:38 EDT 2012

Thanks, Colin, please post it, okay; I've been looking for that little 
Yamaha midi soft synth.
It used to be all over the web, but it's almost disappeared now.
It is much better sounding than Sonar's TTS midi synth, or the Microsoft 
WaveTable synth, and it's very handy to have around.
Thanks,
Indigo L

On 3/17/2012 1:51 PM, colin McDonald wrote:
> as far as midi stuff goes, I've been using a yamaha midi synth that
> sounds pretty good compared to the MS wavetable garbage.
> I don't use any external midi stuff here yet, IE synths or keyboards
> etc...but when I want to listen to or edit existing Midi's I find the
> yamaha synth is good.
> I can send it somewhere if anyone wants to try it as an alternative to
> wavetable.
>
> Regards
> Colin
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 7:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [RWP] introduction and a question?
>
>
>> Hi Gianluca,
>> I can help with download links to freeware VST synths and effects.
>> There are many good ones that you can at least access presets on,
>> providing very good sounds for any kind of music.
>> A while back I tried to find a multitembral 16 channel GM synth, and
>> couldn't find any that sound much better than setting sends from your
>> midi tracks to the Microsoft WaveTable Synth, or your onboard RealTech
>> synth.
>> Sonar's TTS synth runs in Reaper, but you need to have Sonar to get
>> it, and it doesn't sound much better than the onboard computer synths.
>> If you want better sound from midi tracks, you need to insert a track
>> with a VST synth; then; in Reaper's IO dialog; create a send from each
>> midi track pointed to its own VST synth's track.
>> With a reasonably powerful computer you can insert the same VST synth
>> many times, or different VST synths; 1 instance per midi file and midi
>> channel.
>> I'm also inserting an empty track, so I can get an audio file recorded
>> from all synths that are being driven from midi files.
>> You get your audio file immediately, no need to convert midi to audio
>> in an extra step.
>> You just select the empty track, press I for the IO dialog; then set
>> returns from all VST synth tracks pointed to that empty audio track.
>> You also set a send from that audio track to your soundcard.
>> Then exit IO Dialog with escape.
>> In track view select the audio track, then tab to midi channel and set
>> it to all, record mode and set it to input, and turn record armed on;
>> and set midi output none.
>> Press enter to save those settings.
>> Then, here's a step I found works for me, maybe you don't need it.
>> Press ctrl+up arrow; then press the Applications key to get a more
>> complete track properties menu.
>> Arrow down and record mode input will be checked, but continue
>> arrowing down and press enter on Input Stereo.
>> Otherwise, I ended up with a mono recording on my audio track.
>> The midi tracks are feeding the VST synths, the VST synths are feeding
>> that single audio track; and that audio track is feeding your sound card.
>> When you press R everythings ends up recorded on 1 audio track, and
>> you just save that track, no rendering required if you set your
>> project settings to record mp3, wav, flack, whatever you want your
>> audio file to be when saved.
>> Indigo L
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/17/2012 4:32 AM, Gianluca Apollaro wrote:
>>> Hi Indigo and list,
>>> I always render files as flac via the regular render dialog accessed
>>> using alt+ctrl+r and never had problems with them, and all the mp3 I
>>> created played just fine. I work mostly with audio though, because with
>>> midi I can't manage to convert them to audio cause I don't have any good
>>> sounding vst and as far as I know you can't convert midi to audio using
>>> the midi output thing. Btw if anybody wants to add me, my skype id is
>>> gianluca8815.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Gianluca from Italy
>>>
>>>
>>> Il 17/03/2012 03:28, indigo ha scritto:
>>>> Scott, please don't switch to any of my work flows, which don't flow
>>>> very well yet!
>>>> I'm just a beginner, discovering as I go, no users guide yet for
>>>> Reaper with ReaAccess.
>>>> I keep notes on whatever I find, and on whatever anyone else says, and
>>>> I'm hoping for a Wikki style users guide, so others can do edits and
>>>> simplify my over complicated methods. smile.
>>>> I did try rendering into several formats; like I thought I'd reduce
>>>> the 80 meg .wav file by half by rendering to flack, but Reaper has
>>>> some peculiar ways of doing things, as you know.
>>>> To get a .flack file and not just a .flk.rpp file, which won't play in
>>>> anyone's Winamp, I had to choose render custom, instead of render
>>>> entire project.
>>>> But, the end time for the custom setting seems to stop at a loop point
>>>> in the midi file I was using, so my flack render suddenly cut off
>>>> before the actual end of project.
>>>> I had measures, beats selected in my project settings, but in the
>>>> render dialog I only got the project length displayed in minutes
>>>> seconds.
>>>> So, I'd need to look at the minutes/seconds end time of the rendering
>>>> of the entire project, jot down that figure;then render custom and
>>>> type in the project lentth in minutes/seconds; then I assume I would
>>>> have got the whole track into flack
>>>> I'm hoping there easier ways to do these things I haven't discovered
>>>> yet.
>>>> I don't really understand why ; if I set my Project settings to
>>>> measures, beats,why isn't that setting reflected in all Reaper dialogs?
>>>> Also, other peculiar things, when I tried to render to MP3, Reaper
>>>> went through the process, and produced a .mp3 file, which wouldn't
>>>> play in Winamp.
>>>> I tried again, and Reaper announced that it needed to download lame
>>>> mp3.
>>>>
>>>> Since My daw is off line, so I can't download anything from the web.
>>>> I copied Winamp's mp3plug into Reaper's program files/plugs folder,
>>>> hoping those would suffice; but Reaper still said it needed to
>>>> download that lame mp3.
>>>> While I was in the program file/plugs folder in Reaper, I noticed
>>>> there's already a plug in there named Reaper Mp3.
>>>> Well, Reaper refused to recognize Winamp's mp3 plug, so today I
>>>> downloaded the latest lame MP3, with this computer; hoping I can stick
>>>> into a Reaper folder somewhere and it'll be happy; and will do renders
>>>> to mp3 that actually play.
>>>> The .ogg files play fine in Winamp, but when I did a recording in the
>>>> compressed lossless .wv foremat, Winamp couldn't play it.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any clues,
>>>> Indigo L
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/16/2012 8:33 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
>>>>> Wow, how weird that those two versions would sound different. I
>>>>> would've thought that they'd both be shoved through the same OGG
>>>>> encoder with both methods, and that that'd be the stage where the most
>>>>> butchering gets done. Don't worry, I'm not expecting you to know the
>>>>> answer as to why it sounds different and I certainly won't be the guy
>>>>> to question your ability to hear the difference, just musing on the
>>>>> strange and interesting times we live in.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you get a chance and you're half as curious as I am about this,
>>>>> maybe try recording that audio version of the MIDI file down in 24bit
>>>>> wav, then try rendering a version with the exact same settings and see
>>>>> if you can hear the difference. If you can, even when it's not set to
>>>>> spit out a file in a lossy format and no dithering is taking place,
>>>>> I'll definitely be switching to your workflow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/17/12, indigo<33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Well, Scott, I'm sure it's not easier or quicker, but I was told that
>>>>>> there are losses during rendering down, while there are no losses if
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> simply record in the format that you want to begin with.
>>>>>> I'm just experimenting to learn what works best.
>>>>>> I'm fairly sure that there are unavoidable math compromises made
>>>>>> during
>>>>>> rendering down to a lower bit rate format.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I recorded an audio track from midi files at 24 bits 44.1K that
>>>>>> turned
>>>>>> out 86 megs, I think it was, kind of large to post anywhere.
>>>>>> I tried rendering it to 16 bit ogg, and other foremats, and I
>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>> could hear the losses.
>>>>>> So, instead, I just changed the Project recording format to 16 bit
>>>>>> ogg,
>>>>>> recorded a new audio track, and saved it, no rendering, no dithering
>>>>>> required, and it's 5 megs or so in .ogg, not as clear as the .wav
>>>>>> version, but much clearer than when I rendered down from .wav to
>>>>>> .ogg.
>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/16/2012 5:38 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi chaps,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Forgive me, but I don't see how this is any simpler/quicker than
>>>>>>> rendering down to a file, particularly as rendering is done quicker
>>>>>>> than in realtime. What am I missing?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/16/12, indigo<33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Well, here's the way I'm working in Reaper right now.
>>>>>>>> Instead of rendering, you can insert an empty track.
>>>>>>>> Arrow to the empty track to select it, hit the I key to go to IO
>>>>>>>> routing, tab to add returns.
>>>>>>>> Arrow down to the bottom selection, add returns from all tracks.
>>>>>>>> This will cause all the tracks you've already recorded to send
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> output to your blank track.
>>>>>>>> I believe you will need to add a send from your empty audio
>>>>>>>> track to
>>>>>>>> your sound card, so you can hear it during recording and playback.
>>>>>>>> There is no okay button in IO routing, just hit escape to return to
>>>>>>>> track view.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With the empty track selected, tab through its track properties.
>>>>>>>> Select all channels if your already recorded tracks are on several
>>>>>>>> midi
>>>>>>>> channels.
>>>>>>>> Select record mode as input, record arm on.
>>>>>>>> Hit enter to save your settings.
>>>>>>>> Now here's something I found works to make sure you get a stereo
>>>>>>>> recording, if your already recorded tracks are in stereo.
>>>>>>>> Select the empty track.
>>>>>>>> ctrl+up arrow, then press applications key.
>>>>>>>> You will get another menu with more detailed properties for your
>>>>>>>> empty
>>>>>>>> track.
>>>>>>>> Arrow down and you will find record mode input already checked.
>>>>>>>> Arrow farther down and you'll find a selection called Input Stereo.
>>>>>>>> Hit enter on it, then hit enter on okay, and you'll be sure to
>>>>>>>> record a
>>>>>>>> stereo audio track in the empty track.
>>>>>>>> You may not need this extra step, so, if you don't, ignore it,
>>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>>> ended up with a mono track without this step.
>>>>>>>> Here's how to record your empty audio track in several different
>>>>>>>> media
>>>>>>>> formats, so you don't need to render in Reaper's file menu.
>>>>>>>> Press alt+enter for Project settings.
>>>>>>>> Get on the Audio settings tab.
>>>>>>>> Arrow down to the format you intend to use for recording.
>>>>>>>> Select whatever format you want your empty track to record in,
>>>>>>>> .wav,
>>>>>>>> flack, whatever, though I found mp3 doesn't work until you go
>>>>>>>> online to
>>>>>>>> import lame MP3 into Reaper.
>>>>>>>> Select your bit rate, etcetera, then hit okay; and you are
>>>>>>>> returned to
>>>>>>>> track view.
>>>>>>>> Select your empty audio track, press W to go to beginning of
>>>>>>>> project,
>>>>>>>> press R to begin recording.
>>>>>>>> Hit spacebar, or press R again to stop recording.
>>>>>>>> Press ctrl+up arrow.
>>>>>>>> Press alt key and arrow down in the file menu to the selection:
>>>>>>>> Save
>>>>>>>> Output to Disk Bounce.
>>>>>>>> Press enter and you get a very complete menu for saving your audio
>>>>>>>> track
>>>>>>>> in its selected format.
>>>>>>>> When you are sure your settings are correct; tab down to Start;
>>>>>>>> Press
>>>>>>>> enter and saving begins.
>>>>>>>> Now, I'm not saying you may not find easier ways, I hope you do;
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> these steps are intuitive enough, and are working for me.
>>>>>>>> As I understand Reaper better, I'm sure I'll find quicker methods,
>>>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>> probably eliminate steps that aren't actually required in all
>>>>>>>> instances.
>>>>>>>> Don't let Reaper's complexity spook you.
>>>>>>>> You don't need all its thousands of selections to do simple
>>>>>>>> recording,
>>>>>>>> but they're waiting until you need them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/16/2012 12:01 PM, Joe Paton wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mine is beautiful right now, at least I can't hear any delay
>>>>>>>>> working 2
>>>>>>>>> guitar parts and 2 vocals four tracks. simple music, but still
>>>>>>>>> timing
>>>>>>>>> critical.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Great you guys, thanks indigo. I know i'll be back with more.
>>>>>>>>> so here's more.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here's a quickie, can I save the four recorded tracks to say 1
>>>>>>>>> stereo
>>>>>>>>> tracks, I know I can render the four down to a saved file, and I
>>>>>>>>> guess I
>>>>>>>>> could do a media file import to bring the song back to a stereo
>>>>>>>>> track
>>>>>>>>> but that seems round the houses a little bit. How do you use
>>>>>>>>> master
>>>>>>>>> tracks?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> seems like a life times work this stuff, and I've had more than
>>>>>>>>> I've got
>>>>>>>>> left.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> RWP mailing list
>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RWP mailing list
>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RWP mailing list
> RWP at reaaccess.com
> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>