[RWP] Links to run Reaper from BCF2000 control surface

Sat Feb 4 16:04:54 EST 2012

Brian, the Mackie Display Reader is definitely daw specific to Sonar, 
but may give some talking access to the BCF2000 in Reaper, but  don't 
get your hopes too high yet
Tim Burgess is currently working on version 2 of the Mackie Display 
reader, which will not be daw specific, and will run on Windows and Mac.

The main problem is finding enough time to try all these possibly good 
things, right?
Indigo L

On 2/4/2012 3:50 PM, Brian Casey wrote:
> Hi Indigo,
>
> I had thought that the reader would have to be dAW specific alright, and
> I'm looking forward to testing it out with sonar, and I might even try
> it on my main studio system to give some good feedback on its opporation
> on windows 7 64 bit...but backups etc must be made first.
>
> The BCF controling my inaccessible RME software is still great for me,
> but it will just require me to have in my head what rows of buttons etc
> I'm on which is no real problem really...its much much better than nothing.
>
> Honestly, the latency is o low on the RME that I'd probably just use
> busses and sends to hardware out puts for setting up moniter mixes etc.
>
> I think I'm some way off having the time to test all these things with
> rEaper though, but having a viable control surface option makes it all
> the more inviting.
>
> Brian.
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:13 PM
> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
> Subject: Re: [RWP] Links to run Reaper from BCF2000 control surface
>
>> As for Tim Burgess's Mackie Display Reader, Tim tells me it is
>> specific to Sonar, so he advises don't expect its assignment of
>> controls to make sense in Reaper.
>> When I corresponded with Tim about using his Mackie Display Reader in
>> Reaper, I wrongly thought that CueBase mackie mode, mute button 2 held
>> down during power on; release the button; then power off and power
>> back on, would be the best mackie mode for Reaper, but now I hear that
>> mackie mode for Sonar 3, which is; mute button 4 held down during
>> power on, release the button; then power off and power back on; works
>> best in Reaper
>> Tim's Mackie Display Reader also uses that same Sonar 3 Mackie mode;
>> so maybe, just maybe, we will get more useful control assignments of
>> the BCF to Reaper than assignments that don't make sense.
>> When I first used Reaper, I thought, Wow, this works a lot like Sonar
>> 4, so it's no surprise that the Mackie mode for Sonar 3 would be the
>> best choice for Reaper.
>> Won't damage anything to try it, right?
>> Just make sure to back up any projects you have in progress.
>> Tim suggests for his MDR in Sonar, to load a project with plenty of
>> tracks, bus assignments, etcetera, to learn what the BCF controls do.
>> Same in Reaper.
>> I'll load one of those complicated Cockos demo projects.
>>
>> As for your RME control panel being inaccessible for routing, I have
>> exactly the same situation with my Emu 1616 M, a great sounding sound
>> card; but an inaccessible control panel.
>> ReaAccess, though, offers the routing dialog brought up with the
>> letter I, which offers routing of anything to anything, either
>> software or hardware.
>> So far, I've survived in Reaper with my inaccessible Emu control panel
>> by loading appropriate routing templates supplied with the soundcard.
>>
>> As for chaining control surfaces, the Behringer BCF2000 is sitting on
>> my desk behind the Edirol PCR-300, which has 50 assignable knobs,
>> faders, buttons and pedals of its own, both connected by USB to the
>> computer, but not connected to each other; and I have already
>> experienced them both working at once, so it looks like a bunch of fun
>> coming assigning all those available controls. smile.
>> All I need is the time to do it.
>> Indigo L
>>
>> On 2/3/2012 5:21 PM, Brian Casey wrote:
>>> Sorry all,
>>>
>>> I just realized that I posted to list at some point saying the Behringer
>>> BCF had a scrub wheel, which of course it doesn't...late nights...my
>>> comments on the non touch sensitive motorised faders stand though!
>>>
>>> Anyone here planning on chaining a couple together, I think you can get
>>> up to three going at once, I'll see how my workflow goes with high track
>>> counts mixes with just one first though.
>>>
>>> Also, anyone using a BCF or Macky enabled surface with the RME total mix
>>> software. If anyones interested, RME make great interface in my opinion
>>> with DSP for routing moniter mixes or routing to outboard etc, but the
>>> total mix software used to control that routig is very inaccessible, but
>>> you can control it with macky control and achieve many things that
>>> way...I'll be getting I nto it soon once I connect in my BCF to my
>>> system, but wanted to see if anyone had a similar setup going.
>>>
>>> I don't fully understand Tim Burgesses macky reader as I haven't used
>>> it, but it could provide feedback on the RME total mix software also
>>> perhaps?
>>>
>>> Lots to chew on there,
>>>
>>> Brian.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 2:21 PM
>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] Links to run Reaper from BCF2000 control surface
>>>
>>>> Yep, little motors somewhere in there, and yet the 8 faders move
>>>> smoothly, not heavy to move; for $169.75 from ZZounds.
>>>> .
>>>> I like that it only has a 4 character LED display, and no cursor
>>>> positioning required.
>>>> Sighted users select the mode, either default B Control mode or
>>>> several Mackie modes by turning a knob until the desired mode appears
>>>> on the display, but we can also select the mode by holding down
>>>> certain buttons while powering on, so it appears we are not shut out.
>>>> That's to get Tim Burgess's Mackie Display Reader going, which
>>>> provides speech for the Mackie mode controls.
>>>> The unit can still require sighted help sometimes, though.
>>>> Reason 6 won't configure the BCF2000 automatically, so I have to get
>>>> help for certain settings needed for Reason.
>>>> Maybe I can get at those settings from button presses, but those
>>>> particular settings aren't covered in Chris Smart's BCF2000 From Feel
>>>> Revision 5.rtf.
>>>> Indigo L
>>>>
>>>> On.
>>>> 2/2/2012 8:12 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
>>>>> Holy cow, motorized faders for that price? I never knew.
>>>>>
>>>>> Guessing it doesn't have a scrub wheel Indigo?
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/3/12, indigo<33indigo at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Rikki, I don't have any firewire gear, but I constantly hear that
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> firewire sound cards only work on Texas Instrument chips in the
>>>>>> firewire circuits, so maybe your soundcard isn't broken, maybe the
>>>>>> problem is in the Firewire cards.
>>>>>> Just got my Behringer BCF2000 yesterday, and Behringer gear is so
>>>>>> cheap
>>>>>> that it's a miracle how they can do it, but... there's no way it
>>>>>> can be
>>>>>> as sturdy as the old Roland and Yamaha Made in Japan gear of the
>>>>>> 1990's,.
>>>>>> I have some of that old hardware myself, that still works like new.
>>>>>> My old Roland MC-307 groove box cost over $700 in 1990, which
>>>>>> would be
>>>>>> maybe twice or 3 times that in current dollars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not only Behringer that has become more delicate, but Yamaha and
>>>>>> Roland gear is all plastic now, even the pots and switches are all
>>>>>> plastic, and just not as fine or enduring as the old gear was.
>>>>>> It's inflation.
>>>>>> The dollar is so inflated now that we'd need to pay the cost of the
>>>>>> real
>>>>>> Mackie; to get that 1990's quality.
>>>>>> Even so, if you treat a Behringer BCR2000 with care, it should do
>>>>>> the job.
>>>>>> It's wonderfully powerful, and somehow finds more parameters to
>>>>>> tweak in
>>>>>> soft synths than my Edirol PCR control surface does.
>>>>>> I love it, but, when myine arrived, one of the knobs on the top row
>>>>>> stuck down when you pushed it, instead of springing back up like the
>>>>>> others; and also didn't turn as smoothly as the others.
>>>>>> I debated whether to return it to ZZounds.com, who have a great no
>>>>>> hassle return policy, but I wanted to make the Behringer work if I
>>>>>> could, so I got out the control lube spray can and drowned that
>>>>>> knob in
>>>>>> lube.
>>>>>> I kept turning it and clicking it on and off until it'became
>>>>>> unfrozen;
>>>>>> and now it'works as good as the other knobs in the row.
>>>>>> So, Behringer is cheap, and the quality isn't 100 percent, but when
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>> in mackie emulation mode it does most of what the Mackie does,
>>>>>> like you
>>>>>> said, for a fraction of the price.
>>>>>> Reaper recognized it immediately, and; even without running the Klink
>>>>>> plug, the Behringer sends program change messages to more soft synths
>>>>>> than my Edirol PCR does, I don't know why that is, and tweaks a few
>>>>>> soft
>>>>>> synth parameters, like volume, or filter, in many VST synths; without
>>>>>> even being configured.
>>>>>> Tomorrow, I'll put the BCF2000 into Mackie mode for Cubase, and
>>>>>> run the
>>>>>> Klinke plug and learn how much it controls Reaper.
>>>>>> The BCF2000 has no LCD screen, and you can set modes by holding
>>>>>> certain
>>>>>> keys when turning power on, so it's very accessible.
>>>>>> I don't know all the details yet, but I think that the top 8 knobs
>>>>>> actually have 64 possible actions, 8 knobs, times 4 banks, times 2,
>>>>>> because the knobs switch actions when pressed down.
>>>>>> The buttons have a decent feel to their click, and the motorized 100
>>>>>> millimeter faders are very smooth, and a pleasure to use.
>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/2/2012 2:46 PM, Rikki Chaplin wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> Thanks for this Indigo. I am about to investigate sound
>>>>>>> cards/control
>>>>>>> surfaces. I have an Echo Audiofire 4, (I just wanted to start off
>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>> a few years ago and never got around to it), which I have recently
>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>> is faulty. It is not being recognised when I plug it into the
>>>>>>> firewire
>>>>>>> card I just bought for my laptop, and I have tried it on a second
>>>>>>> firewire card with the same result, confirmed by a local computer
>>>>>>> shop.
>>>>>>> So I will need to either get it repaired, (if it's even
>>>>>>> possible), or
>>>>>>> get a new one. So I'm reading this thread about the Behringer
>>>>>>> BCF2000
>>>>>>> with great interest, as I intend to sort this out next week when
>>>>>>> I get
>>>>>>> to a decent music shop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My question is, I just looked at both the Bcf 2000 and the Mackie
>>>>>>> control surface whose name escapes me at the moment, and I notice
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> the Behringer is about a tenth of the price of the Mackie! Why is
>>>>>>> this?
>>>>>>> Does a brand name really attract such a price difference! Also, of
>>>>>>> course I know the Mackie is much more expensive, but wouldn't it be
>>>>>>> easier to have the Mackie work with Reaper in that you wouldn't
>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>> install the Klinke plugin and configure that? I may well be on the
>>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>>> track here, so any recommendations on USB audio/midi interfaces
>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>> good. I don't want something too big. I want to start out small,
>>>>>>> see how
>>>>>>> I go and work up from there. Midi is not something I'm familiar with
>>>>>>> configuring, but I want to get into that so I'm able to at least
>>>>>>> record
>>>>>>> good quality demos both for myself and others. Any suggestions on
>>>>>>> audio/midi interfaces as I say would be good. I have a couple in
>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>> but feedback would be welcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Rikki.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: indigo<33indigo at charter.net
>>>>>>> To: Reapers Without Peepers<rwp at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:23:10 -0500
>>>>>>> Subject: [RWP] Links to run Reaper from BCF2000 control surface
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Content preview: Okay, here are links to the Cockos forum where
>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>> about running Reaper from the Behringer BCF2000 control surface
>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>> gathered in 1 place, plus a link where you can download Klinke's
>>>>>>> plug by
>>>>>>> Nofish.
>>>>>>> Klinke is the programmer who developed the VST plug to set up a
>>>>>>> Behringer
>>>>>>> BCF2000 to run Reaper, and I think Nofish is the English
>>>>>>> translater. Below
>>>>>>> that is what passes for a users guide by musicbynumber to how
>>>>>>> Klinke's
>>>>>>> plug
>>>>>>> sets up the controls on the Behringer BCF2000. All this is still
>>>>>>> evolving,
>>>>>>> but sighted users on the forums are saying it works well, and my own
>>>>>>> BCF2000
>>>>>>> is on its way, so I'll try Klinke's plug soon. [...]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Content analysis details: (-0.0 points, 5.0 required)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> pts rule name description
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>>>>>>> -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
>>>>>>> 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily
>>>>>>> valid
>>>>>>> X-Spam-Flag: NO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Okay, here are links to the Cockos forum where everything about
>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>> Reaper from the Behringer BCF2000 control surface have been
>>>>>>> gathered in
>>>>>>> 1 place, plus a link where you can download Klinke's plug by Nofish.
>>>>>>> Klinke is the programmer who developed the VST plug to set up a
>>>>>>> Behringer BCF2000 to run Reaper, and I think Nofish is the English
>>>>>>> translater.
>>>>>>> Below that is what passes for a users guide by musicbynumber
>>>>>>> to how Klinke's plug sets up the controls on the Behringer BCF2000.
>>>>>>> All this is still evolving, but sighted users on the forums are
>>>>>>> saying
>>>>>>> it works well, and my own BCF2000 is on its way, so I'll try
>>>>>>> Klinke's
>>>>>>> plug soon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Along with this plug to set up the BCF2000 for Reaper, is the new
>>>>>>> Mackie
>>>>>>> Reader, which will provide speech for all controls on the BCF2000.
>>>>>>> The Mackie Reader is in its final stages of development and coming
>>>>>>> soon.
>>>>>>> I'll posts links for Mackie Reader as soon as possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Central Cockos Forum for running Reaper from Behringer BCF2000:
>>>>>>> http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=60110
>>>>>>> Link to find Klinke's plug by Nofish; for setting up BCF2000 to run
>>>>>>> Reaper:
>>>>>>> http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=60110
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mackie Control now with plugin control ;-) And with Action-Mode.
>>>>>>> musicbynumber
>>>>>>> BCF2000 help guide thing.. very rough
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First things first
>>>>>>> you have to get the latest behringer usb drivers for it to work well
>>>>>>> over usb (never tried it over midi). They are multiclient and that's
>>>>>>> what's needed to talk with the BcfView and reaper at the same time.
>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>> is probably why none of it's
>>>>>>> This link gives you a guide to the bcf in mcu cubase mode
>>>>>>> http://www.behringerdownload.de/BCF2...tion_modes.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's an overview for the controls but only when it's set up for
>>>>>>> sonar
>>>>>>> mcu so I will try and get round to making a picture but here's an
>>>>>>> idea.
>>>>>>> ---top group of 4 buttons..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -top left one is a shift key and does solo and record arm and some
>>>>>>> automation modes using the group of 4 below it) and in combination
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> the top right it does flip mode.
>>>>>>> -the bottom left is also a shift key that allows you to also use the
>>>>>>> group of four below it to change automation modes (and some stuff
>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>> transport controls too but not sure yet) EDIT: it also gives you 8
>>>>>>> function keys (cc's in action list) that are the 8 select buttons
>>>>>>> (you
>>>>>>> have 8 more with the real shift key but hard to get to)
>>>>>>> -the top right is sends mode, press again for recieves mode (makes
>>>>>>> headphone sends a dream to work with.
>>>>>>> -the bottom right seems to be a toggle switch too but only in fx and
>>>>>>> action mode.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --middle group of four.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -bottom left is normal pan and channel mode (use control to select
>>>>>>> multiple tracks unless you have the original select method on)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -top left is action mode, this is stunning, if you have relative
>>>>>>> mode on
>>>>>>> for that encoder you get a midi cc sent on push, release and turn
>>>>>>> BUT
>>>>>>> just as cool is if you take relative mode off you now get a cc sent
>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>> clockwise turn and a different one on anti clockwise and they repeat
>>>>>>> with each click so this allows you to do cool things like stretch
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> item or shorten it by turning a knob or timestretch or pitch or any
>>>>>>> commands that have a positive and negative adjust. It's very
>>>>>>> powerful!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> top right is also fx mode, note, the rotary encoders can be used for
>>>>>>> things like frequency but the have to be learnt (you have to go
>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>> all the steps) but this also allows them to be used for things
>>>>>>> like eq
>>>>>>> type and they even get the right names once you get used to it,
>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>> fast and powerful and far superior even to automap (which I have two
>>>>>>> devices)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -bottom right seems to be a toggle modifier again still learning it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --two buttons on their own.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -bank left and right but if you hold one of the shifts they move
>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>> single channels instead of banks of 8.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --bottom four buttons
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -the usual, stop, play, fast forward and reverse, the shifts do
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> like activate record and cycle.
>>>>>>>
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