[RWP] KeyMaps

Thu Apr 12 21:02:44 EDT 2012

Indigo,
Oh no, I would not eliminate alt+downArrow as a track volume hotkey.  It 
would only be used when focused in the comboBox with no presets showing.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps

> If alt+down arrow isn't required elsewhere, I just thought it's a loss of 
> a convenient track volume and pan control  for Jaws users, since your page 
> down works perfectly in Jaws 13 without first pressing alt+down arrow.
> Today I'll probe Wineyes highlight settings, for a clue how to get it to 
> immediately do what's needed to select the right preset option, if it can.
> I don't know jaws well enough yet to even know where its highlight, bold, 
> underline, etcetera settings are.
> There might be a Reaper setting involved.
> I'll also google theCockos forums with the words No Presets.
> It's often surprising how many sighted users encounter  these same issues.
> Indigo L
>
>
> On 4/10/2012 9:49 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>> Indigo,
>> I mentioned alt+downArrow, because that is the hotkey defined for the
>> open object associated with that comboBox. I learned that using an
>> object browser, which is a set of special purpose scripts I use with 
>> JAWS.
>> It opens the list, but it doesn't do everything that is needed to change
>> the highlighted selection. So, the screen readers that are tracking that
>> highlight are getting stuck. However, and this may be why we have
>> sometimes thought that clicking in unexpected places will cause the
>> highlight to move, all you have to do is drag the mouse across User
>> Presets, or one of those preset names and, voila, suddently the
>> highlight moves down to the list of presets. No clicking was required.
>> Just hovering the mouse.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:01 AM
>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>
>>
>>> So in some posts you said alt+down arrow opens the preset list?
>>> I open it now with page down, as you posted several times, but I
>>> believe alt plus down arrow will always lower the track's volume.
>>> I'll go back and check exactly where I was when alt plus up/down
>>> arrows raise/lower volume, while alt plus left right arrows move the
>>> selected track's pan left and right.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Indigo L
>>> the track
>>>
>>> On 4/9/2012 3:34 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>> Really? shame on you for not reading my every word! <grin>
>>>>
>>>> Seems like, in NVDA and jaws both, you can just use alt+downArrow,
>>>> which is the default shortcut key for the object that opens the list.
>>>> May work in Wineyes too. Then, that list actually opens, but you
>>>> can't tell it iwth jaws. but, if you use NVDA to browse the objects,
>>>> at the next level down from the comboBox, you will see all the
>>>> presets listed. Again, not using regular arrows, but NVDA's object
>>>> browsing stuff. And, I'm sure there is a way to set focus on the
>>>> object you browse to, maybe shift+inser+NumPad Minus. Not sure.
>>>>
>>>> I'm focused on jaws, so I'm not thinking much about NVDA, quite
>>>> honestly. I don't have any need to use it. So, I'll let other's
>>>> figure that out. But, about the page down, my comment was that , in
>>>> jaws, you can tab to the presets comboBox, and then press page down,
>>>> and the list will open, and you will be placed at the bottom of the
>>>> list. Then, you can navigate the list as usual, hearing the preset
>>>> change as you use the arrow keys.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com> Sent: Monday, April
>>>> 09, 2012 6:31 AM Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I think I'm needlessly worrying about leaving alt+shift+brackets
>>>>> markers behind, no changes should remain if I exit Reaper without
>>>>> saving the Project, and probably escape is also removing unwanted
>>>>> selection markers.
>>>>>
>>>>> a while back somebody said that a solution to getting a selected
>>>>> portion of an audio track to play was to set it to loop, and then
>>>>> you could hear that selected portion by itself, but I haven't
>>>>> tested it yet. I also once found a shortcut: Go to beginning of
>>>>> loop, but can't find it now. I'm hoping that: setting the
>>>>> alt+shift+brackets; then setting the selected area to loop; then
>>>>> using: Go to beginning of loop will show where the first bracket
>>>>> marker is located, but I've got several missing pieces to this part
>>>>> of the jigsaw puzzle unaccounted for yet. smile. Also, when trying
>>>>> to understand how to remove No Presets from the effects presets
>>>>> box, I mistakenly thought alt+up or down arrows was displaying
>>>>> Presets, but I was only getting the selected track's volume up and
>>>>> down control that's available in both track view and effects
>>>>> routing page. alt+up/down arrows for volume, alt+left/right arrows
>>>>> for pan.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've only read snippets of your fix for No Presets in the effects
>>>>> presets list. Did you say that pressing page down while in the
>>>>> effects presets list causes the entire preset list to display, or
>>>>> did I mis understand that? In W-E and NVDA, I get no results from
>>>>> pressing page down while in the effects presets list. My only fix
>>>>> in W-E is to right or left click on PARAM, then press enter on Show
>>>>> Presets list F; then enter on Show in Track Controls. Then the
>>>>> entire list of presets displays on the arrow keys. Is this a
>>>>> difference in what Jaws and W-E are showing? I don't know how to
>>>>> cause presets to display in NVDA; because I can't click on PARAM.
>>>>> Somebody more skilled with NVDA will have to solve that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I notice that, both in W-E and NVDA; pressing enter after tabbing
>>>>> to PARAM does not open the PARAM menu, I need to route to PC and
>>>>> left or right click there to open the Parem menu. I've still yet to
>>>>> learn the NVDA equivalent of Route to PC.
>>>>>
>>>>> I press insert+dash; which moves to focus, and causes PAREM to show
>>>>> at the arrow keys, but I don't know how to perform an emulated
>>>>> mouse click on PARAM. esterday was a big treasure finding day for
>>>>> me in Reaper, when I finally got actual effects presets and values
>>>>> to show up. At least these JS effects seem very accessible. Today
>>>>> I'll load some classic third party effects, and hope all their
>>>>> presets and parameters show, with meaningful names. Thanks for
>>>>> everything, Indigo L
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/8/2012 11:08 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>> Only way I know to remove the time selection is to press escape.
>>>>>> ReAccess will say something like selection removed, or something
>>>>>> like that. I don't know of an easy way to tell if a selection is
>>>>>> in place, which is something I would like to crack. I find it
>>>>>> disconcerting not to know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems like, at one time, I had my jaws scripts showing the start
>>>>>> and end of the selection on the braille display. But, I might be
>>>>>> confused about that. It was several months ago, and I notice it
>>>>>> isn't working now, if it ever was.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for tracks, isn't there a way to unselect all tracks?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo"
>>>>>> <33indigo at charter.net> To: "Reapers Without Peepers"
>>>>>> <rwp at reaaccess.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 11:34 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jim, can I ask how to remove selection markers you add with
>>>>>>> alt+shift+left and right brackets? I'm not sure how to detect
>>>>>>> them, if they're actually there but I'm just not finding them.
>>>>>>> I'm guessing that, if I have them in place when I exit without
>>>>>>> saving the project they'll not be there next time, but how,
>>>>>>> other than the edit menu undo, can I remove
>>>>>>> alt+shift+brackets? Also, is there a way you can think of to
>>>>>>> prevent endless track selections from being added to the undo
>>>>>>> menu? It's a royal pain to undo all those track selections
>>>>>>> before getting to the actual important error I want to undo. We
>>>>>>> need a filter to keep those from going to the undo menu.
>>>>>>> Thanks, Indigo L
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/7/2012 10:32 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>> My guess is that, for sake of action hot keys, We can't use
>>>>>>>> capslock or grauv. At the moment windows+left/right are
>>>>>>>> performing no useful purpose. But, at the moment, havin those
>>>>>>>> keys assigned to these actions, goto start or end of
>>>>>>>> selection, what happens if there is no selection is that
>>>>>>>> your cursor doesn't go anywhere. The default beep plays,
>>>>>>>> ReAccess speaks the current position, but no motion occurs.
>>>>>>>> This is actually pretty good since the actin I am requesting
>>>>>>>> isn't valid anyway. So, I'm glad Reaper doesn't make me pay
>>>>>>>> for it by flying me to the start of the project. That is one
>>>>>>>> bad thing about the familiar sound forge paradigm, is that
>>>>>>>> hot keys do different things depending on the circumstances.
>>>>>>>> I don't know about you, but I often forget the
>>>>>>>> circumstances. Anyway, at the moment, I'm not too unhappy
>>>>>>>> having those keys do nothing useful when nothing is
>>>>>>>> selected.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Indigo, about when Reaper will play the selection only, it
>>>>>>>> may have somethindo with whether your cursor is actually
>>>>>>>> inside the selection at the time you start playback.
>>>>>>>> Perhaps?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo"
>>>>>>>> <33indigo at charter.net> To: "Reapers Without Peepers"
>>>>>>>> <rwp at reaaccess.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:57 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, I seem to remember that actions can be strung
>>>>>>>>> together, maybe with if; then; arguments. Maybe it's
>>>>>>>>> ReaScript. that can do that. If not, then .sts extension
>>>>>>>>> actions surely can.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I tried Windows Key plus right and left arrows on an audio
>>>>>>>>> track a little while ago, and itseemed to just cause the
>>>>>>>>> cursor to move along the timeline. Windows+left arrow went
>>>>>>>>> back to beginning of measure 1 and stopped. Holding
>>>>>>>>> Windows+right arrow fast forwards to the end of the
>>>>>>>>> recording. I heard, not the music; as when scrubbing with
>>>>>>>>> right/left arrows, but the measures spoken as the cursor
>>>>>>>>> moved along them. You're right, a horizontal shortcut like
>>>>>>>>> Windows+right arrow is more Intuitive to move along
>>>>>>>>> horizontal tracks than a vertical move like home and end,
>>>>>>>>> page up and down, but they're already assigned to do some
>>>>>>>>> of what we need to move along the time line. I'll go back
>>>>>>>>> and try all combinations of modifiers with home/end and
>>>>>>>>> page up/down. I wonder if the caps lock key or accent
>>>>>>>>> graav; or tilda key can be used as modifiers?That would
>>>>>>>>> offer a huge number of shortcuts to us. Window-Eyes 6.1 and
>>>>>>>>> XP, in Reaper 4.21, I tried your experiment; setting
>>>>>>>>> bracketed markers, then positioning in the middle of the
>>>>>>>>> selected region and attempting to discover moves to cause
>>>>>>>>> only that selected portion to play. I thought I got it
>>>>>>>>> once, but need to go back and pin down what might have done
>>>>>>>>> it. It's a shame that Reaper isn't quite a perfectly
>>>>>>>>> written program, more like Sound Forge 6; 7; maybe 8; so
>>>>>>>>> that a single pressing of keys always gets the same
>>>>>>>>> response. I'll need to document them, but I deal every day
>>>>>>>>> with times I need to bang at a shortcut 2 or more times
>>>>>>>>> before it finally gets a response. I haven't installed
>>>>>>>>> version 4.22 yet, maybe it fixes some of those little
>>>>>>>>> annoyances. Thanks, Indigo L
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/7/2012 6:22 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In sound forge, home and end do different things,
>>>>>>>>>> depending on whether a selection is active. When one is
>>>>>>>>>> active, they move to the startt and end of the
>>>>>>>>>> selection.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of making them the same here. But,
>>>>>>>>>> I dont' see a way of making actions conditional. But,
>>>>>>>>>> perhaps there is a way. Isn't there a way of batching
>>>>>>>>>> multiple actions together, like a macro? Isn't there a
>>>>>>>>>> ReaScript, or some language like that behind this? Seems
>>>>>>>>>> like a possibility.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo"
>>>>>>>>>> <33indigo at charter.net> To: "Reapers Without Peepers"
>>>>>>>>>> <rwp at reaaccess.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 3:21
>>>>>>>>>> PM Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jim, Home and end keys take you to the start and end of
>>>>>>>>>>> whatever's recorded on the track in focus, so after you
>>>>>>>>>>> make a selection with alt+shift+ left and right
>>>>>>>>>>> brackets, and you're somewhere within your selection,
>>>>>>>>>>> do home and end still jump to beginning and end of the
>>>>>>>>>>> entire track and ignore your markers? I'm not much on
>>>>>>>>>>> Sonar shortcuts, but what does home and end do in Sonar
>>>>>>>>>>> with the various modifiers available?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know, but if there's a possible parallel with
>>>>>>>>>>> Sonar it might make it easier for some folks. What does
>>>>>>>>>>> Sound Forge use to go to start and end of selection?
>>>>>>>>>>> That might be an easy shortcut for Sound Forge users if
>>>>>>>>>>> it isn't taken already. Just thoughts, Indigo L
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/2/2012 11:29 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> This message is not just a jaws discussion, so read
>>>>>>>>>>>> on for an interesting idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been messing with the jaws scripting approach
>>>>>>>>>>>> to improving how the media explorer works. And, I've
>>>>>>>>>>>> got something that seems to help anyway, and I'll be
>>>>>>>>>>>> passing along a link to that in a few days. But, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> working on that, I have discovered that there are
>>>>>>>>>>>> lots of very strange irregularities regarding how key
>>>>>>>>>>>> strokes are captured by reaper. Usually, the control
>>>>>>>>>>>> that will receive your key strokes is the control
>>>>>>>>>>>> that has focus. However, I have seen cases where
>>>>>>>>>>>> this becomes not true. situations where reaper is
>>>>>>>>>>>> capturing keystrokes before they get to jaws, so jaws
>>>>>>>>>>>> never knows about them. Very irregular stuff. But,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the creation of hotkeys to quickly do things is, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> general, a productivity enhancer, and an improvement
>>>>>>>>>>>> in comfort. And, if reaper has an action that will
>>>>>>>>>>>> apply, it is definitely a preferred solution to use
>>>>>>>>>>>> the reaper action.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, it's apparent that reaper shortcuts are very
>>>>>>>>>>>> important to us, and can be used to do some of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same things that a jaws script might do. But, it has
>>>>>>>>>>>> the advantage of being significantly more stable in
>>>>>>>>>>>> this particular environment, andalso of being screen
>>>>>>>>>>>> reader independent. So, what if we started centrally
>>>>>>>>>>>> accumulating a list of reaper action hotkey
>>>>>>>>>>>> assignments that we all find useful, so we can all
>>>>>>>>>>>> talk the same language about hot keys. ReAccess has
>>>>>>>>>>>> already made lots of assignments. But, this is a way
>>>>>>>>>>>> in which we can extend ReAccess. These keymaps are
>>>>>>>>>>>> just formatted text files. It looks like an import
>>>>>>>>>>>> operation grabs all the key assignments from one
>>>>>>>>>>>> file, and uses them exclusively. But, you should be
>>>>>>>>>>>> able to open the reaper default keymap with a text
>>>>>>>>>>>> editor, and insert additional key assignments,
>>>>>>>>>>>> thereby effectively merging those new assignments
>>>>>>>>>>>> into your current settings. Of course, gut wrenching,
>>>>>>>>>>>> religious arguments break out whenever two or more
>>>>>>>>>>>> people try to agree on an appropriate hot key choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>> So, that will make it hard. But, if we could just
>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to make the choice, and submit it to a
>>>>>>>>>>>> growing common list, then we could all refer to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same key strokes when we talk about how to use such
>>>>>>>>>>>> things, and the growing Wiki could reference them.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Once, general consensus seems to accept a proposed
>>>>>>>>>>>> assignment, we could add it to a central file that
>>>>>>>>>>>> newbies could download. And, those of us on the list
>>>>>>>>>>>> at the time could store them locally. Anybody think
>>>>>>>>>>>> this is a good idea?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The discussion of a proposed addition would help make
>>>>>>>>>>>> sure the action doesn't already exist somewhere, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> help make reasonable hotkey choices. Reaper and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Reaccess is a land mine environment for hot keys.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> One pair of new actions I would like to assign is the
>>>>>>>>>>>> ability to move directly to the start or end of a
>>>>>>>>>>>> time selection. I find this action is handy when
>>>>>>>>>>>> confirming that the selection exists, and that it is
>>>>>>>>>>>> set up the way I want it to be. I propose
>>>>>>>>>>>> windows+leftArrow and windows+right arrow. I wanted
>>>>>>>>>>>> to connected it to some form of bracet keys, since
>>>>>>>>>>>> those are generally involved in selections. So, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> would be ok with some choice like that too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, I still find that, once I make a time selection
>>>>>>>>>>>> with alt+shift+ left and right bracket, that, if I
>>>>>>>>>>>> move to the start of the time selection, with my new
>>>>>>>>>>>> hotkey, then press space, the selected portion is all
>>>>>>>>>>>> I hear.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ RWP
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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