[RWP] KeyMaps
Derek Lane
derek at pdaudio.net
Wed Apr 11 10:26:23 EDT 2012
on the respective input I wanted to enable
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Snowbarger" <Snowman at SnowmanRadio.com>
To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
> Derek, sorry, I'm not tracking. Where was your focus when you pressed
> applications?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Derek Lane" <derek at pdaudio.net>
> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 1:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>
>
>> pressing the applications key worked for me.
>> I got a context menu, with enable as one of the options.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:31 AM
>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>
>>
>>> Thanks, Kerry.
>>> I had basically discovered how to get an object, like the words No
>>> Presets into focus
>>> , then Move navigator object to mouse, and left click it at the number
>>> pad.
>>>
>>> That will cause effects presets to appear in the presets combo box, if
>>> Jim's page down doesn't do the trick.
>>> I'm always trying to include NVDA into any solutions we find for
>>> ReaAccess issues
>>>
>>> Would you please write out how you configure midi devices, with NVDA; to
>>> get the word enabled, to appear after the names of midi devices in
>>> Reaper's options/preferences?
>>> I can't find any way to do that in either Jaws or Window-Eyes without
>>> Route Jaws to PC, finding the unenabled midi device, right clicking it
>>> at the number pad, then going back to the middle arrow keys and useing
>>> the configure device dialog that appears there.
>>>
>>> An equivalent of That little peculiar move seems required for sighted
>>> users also, but Roy turned me onto how to do it in Wineyes originally.
>>> So, I know you can do equivalent moves In NVDA, please do a little step
>>> by step tutorial on it for our wiki?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Indigo L
>>> On 4/9/2012 10:37 PM, Kerry Hoath wrote:
>>>> Object nav basically works like this:
>>>> you start at the lowest level by default, insert 8 moves up by a level,
>>>> insert 2 moves down.
>>>> 4 and 6 are next and previous objects.
>>>> To click on an object you first need to route the mouse to the current
>>>> navigator object with nvda-numpad * or nvda+shift+f9 on the laptop.
>>>>
>>>> Object nav does not move the mouse like Jaws/we does, so the mouse does
>>>> not move until you explicedly tell it too.
>>>> You do this by hitting nvda-* or nvda+shift+f9
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Kerry.
>>>> On 10/04/2012 3:34 AM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>> Really? shame on you for not reading my every word! <grin>
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems like, in NVDA and jaws both, you can just use alt+downArrow,
>>>>> which is the default shortcut key for the object that opens the list.
>>>>> May work in Wineyes too.
>>>>> Then, that list actually opens, but you can't tell it iwth jaws. but,
>>>>> if you use NVDA to browse the objects, at the next level down from the
>>>>> comboBox, you will see all the presets listed. Again, not using
>>>>> regular arrows, but NVDA's object browsing stuff. And, I'm sure there
>>>>> is a way to set focus on the object you browse to, maybe
>>>>> shift+inser+NumPad Minus. Not sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm focused on jaws, so I'm not thinking much about NVDA, quite
>>>>> honestly. I don't have any need to use it.
>>>>> So, I'll let other's figure that out.
>>>>> But, about the page down, my comment was that , in jaws, you can tab
>>>>> to the presets comboBox, and then press page down, and the list will
>>>>> open, and you will be placed at the bottom of the list.
>>>>> Then, you can navigate the list as usual, hearing the preset change as
>>>>> you use the arrow keys.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 6:31 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think I'm needlessly worrying about leaving alt+shift+brackets
>>>>>> markers behind, no changes should remain if I exit Reaper without
>>>>>> saving the Project, and probably escape is also removing unwanted
>>>>>> selection markers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a while back somebody said that a solution to getting a selected
>>>>>> portion of an audio track to play was to set it to loop, and then you
>>>>>> could hear that selected portion by itself, but I haven't tested it
>>>>>> yet.
>>>>>> I also once found a shortcut: Go to beginning of loop, but can't find
>>>>>> it now.
>>>>>> I'm hoping that: setting the alt+shift+brackets; then setting the
>>>>>> selected area to loop; then using: Go to beginning of loop will show
>>>>>> where the first bracket marker is located, but I've got several
>>>>>> missing pieces to this part of the jigsaw puzzle unaccounted for yet.
>>>>>> smile.
>>>>>> Also, when trying to understand how to remove No Presets from the
>>>>>> effects presets box, I mistakenly thought alt+up or down arrows was
>>>>>> displaying Presets, but I was only getting the selected track's
>>>>>> volume up and down control that's available in both track view and
>>>>>> effects routing page.
>>>>>> alt+up/down arrows for volume, alt+left/right arrows for pan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've only read snippets of your fix for No Presets in the effects
>>>>>> presets list.
>>>>>> Did you say that pressing page down while in the effects presets list
>>>>>> causes the entire preset list to display, or did I mis understand
>>>>>> that?
>>>>>> In W-E and NVDA, I get no results from pressing page down while in
>>>>>> the effects presets list.
>>>>>> My only fix in W-E is to right or left click on PARAM, then press
>>>>>> enter on Show Presets list F; then enter on Show in Track Controls.
>>>>>> Then the entire list of presets displays on the arrow keys.
>>>>>> Is this a difference in what Jaws and W-E are showing?
>>>>>> I don't know how to cause presets to display in NVDA; because I can't
>>>>>> click on PARAM.
>>>>>> Somebody more skilled with NVDA will have to solve that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I notice that, both in W-E and NVDA; pressing enter after tabbing to
>>>>>> PARAM does not open the PARAM menu, I need to route to PC and left or
>>>>>> right click there to open the Parem menu.
>>>>>> I've still yet to learn the NVDA equivalent of Route to PC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I press insert+dash; which moves to focus, and causes PAREM to show
>>>>>> at the arrow keys, but I don't know how to perform an emulated mouse
>>>>>> click on PARAM.
>>>>>> esterday was a big treasure finding day for me in Reaper, when I
>>>>>> finally got actual effects presets and values to show up.
>>>>>> At least these JS effects seem very accessible.
>>>>>> Today I'll load some classic third party effects, and hope all their
>>>>>> presets and parameters show, with meaningful names.
>>>>>> Thanks for everything,
>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/8/2012 11:08 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>> Only way I know to remove the time selection is to press escape.
>>>>>>> ReAccess will say something like selection removed, or something
>>>>>>> like that.
>>>>>>> I don't know of an easy way to tell if a selection is in place,
>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>> something I would like to crack. I find it disconcerting not to
>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems like, at one time, I had my jaws scripts showing the start and
>>>>>>> end
>>>>>>> of the selection on the braille display. But, I might be confused
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> that. It was several months ago, and I notice it isn't working now,
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> it ever was.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for tracks, isn't there a way to unselect all tracks?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 11:34 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jim, can I ask how to remove selection markers you add with
>>>>>>>> alt+shift+left and right brackets?
>>>>>>>> I'm not sure how to detect them, if they're actually there but I'm
>>>>>>>> just not finding them.
>>>>>>>> I'm guessing that, if I have them in place when I exit without
>>>>>>>> saving
>>>>>>>> the project they'll not be there next time, but how, other than the
>>>>>>>> edit menu undo, can I remove alt+shift+brackets?
>>>>>>>> Also, is there a way you can think of to prevent endless track
>>>>>>>> selections from being added to the undo menu?
>>>>>>>> It's a royal pain to undo all those track selections before getting
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> the actual important error I want to undo.
>>>>>>>> We need a filter to keep those from going to the undo menu.
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/7/2012 10:32 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>>> My guess is that, for sake of action hot keys, We can't use
>>>>>>>>> capslock or
>>>>>>>>> grauv.
>>>>>>>>> At the moment windows+left/right are performing no useful purpose.
>>>>>>>>> But,
>>>>>>>>> at the moment, havin those keys assigned to these actions, goto
>>>>>>>>> start or
>>>>>>>>> end of selection, what happens if there is no selection is that
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> cursor doesn't go anywhere. The default beep plays, ReAccess
>>>>>>>>> speaks the
>>>>>>>>> current position, but no motion occurs. This is actually pretty
>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>> since the actin I am requesting isn't valid anyway. So, I'm glad
>>>>>>>>> Reaper
>>>>>>>>> doesn't make me pay for it by flying me to the start of the
>>>>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>>>> That is one bad thing about the familiar sound forge paradigm, is
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> hot keys do different things depending on the circumstances. I
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> know about you, but I often forget the circumstances.
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, at the moment, I'm not too unhappy having those keys do
>>>>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>>>>> useful when nothing is selected.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Indigo, about when Reaper will play the selection only, it may
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> somethindo with whether your cursor is actually inside the
>>>>>>>>> selection at
>>>>>>>>> the time you start playback. Perhaps?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:57 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I seem to remember that actions can be strung together,
>>>>>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>>>>>> with if; then; arguments.
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe it's ReaScript. that can do that.
>>>>>>>>>> If not, then .sts extension actions surely can.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I tried Windows Key plus right and left arrows on an audio track
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> little while ago, and itseemed to just cause the cursor to move
>>>>>>>>>> along
>>>>>>>>>> the timeline.
>>>>>>>>>> Windows+left arrow went back to beginning of measure 1 and
>>>>>>>>>> stopped.
>>>>>>>>>> Holding Windows+right arrow fast forwards to the end of the
>>>>>>>>>> recording.
>>>>>>>>>> I heard, not the music; as when scrubbing with right/left arrows,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> the measures spoken as the cursor moved along them.
>>>>>>>>>> You're right, a horizontal shortcut like Windows+right arrow is
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> Intuitive to move along horizontal tracks than a vertical move
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> home and end, page up and down, but they're already assigned to
>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>> some of what we need to move along the time line.
>>>>>>>>>> I'll go back and try all combinations of modifiers with home/end
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> page up/down.
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if the caps lock key or accent graav; or tilda key can
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> used as modifiers?That would offer a huge number of shortcuts to
>>>>>>>>>> us.
>>>>>>>>>> Window-Eyes 6.1 and XP, in Reaper 4.21, I tried your experiment;
>>>>>>>>>> setting bracketed markers, then positioning in the middle of the
>>>>>>>>>> selected region and attempting to discover moves to cause only
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> selected portion to play.
>>>>>>>>>> I thought I got it once, but need to go back and pin down what
>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>> have done it.
>>>>>>>>>> It's a shame that Reaper isn't quite a perfectly written program,
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> like Sound Forge 6; 7; maybe 8; so that a single pressing of keys
>>>>>>>>>> always gets the same response.
>>>>>>>>>> I'll need to document them, but I deal every day with times I
>>>>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>>>>> bang at a shortcut 2 or more times before it finally gets a
>>>>>>>>>> response.
>>>>>>>>>> I haven't installed version 4.22 yet, maybe it fixes some of
>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>> little annoyances.
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/7/2012 6:22 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In sound forge, home and end do different things, depending on
>>>>>>>>>>> whether a
>>>>>>>>>>> selection is active.
>>>>>>>>>>> When one is active, they move to the startt and end of the
>>>>>>>>>>> selection.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of making them the same here. But, I
>>>>>>>>>>> dont'
>>>>>>>>>>> see a
>>>>>>>>>>> way of making actions conditional.
>>>>>>>>>>> But, perhaps there is a way. Isn't there a way of batching
>>>>>>>>>>> multiple
>>>>>>>>>>> actions together, like a macro?
>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't there a ReaScript, or some language like that behind this?
>>>>>>>>>>> Seems
>>>>>>>>>>> like a possibility.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo"
>>>>>>>>>>> <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 3:21 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jim, Home and end keys take you to the start and end of
>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever's
>>>>>>>>>>>> recorded on the track in focus, so after you make a selection
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> alt+shift+ left and right brackets, and you're somewhere within
>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>> selection, do home and end still jump to beginning and end of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> entire track and ignore your markers?
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not much on Sonar shortcuts, but what does home and end do
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sonar with the various modifiers available?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know, but if there's a possible parallel with Sonar it
>>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>>> make it easier for some folks.
>>>>>>>>>>>> What does Sound Forge use to go to start and end of selection?
>>>>>>>>>>>> That might be an easy shortcut for Sound Forge users if it
>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> taken
>>>>>>>>>>>> already.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just thoughts,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/2/2012 11:29 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This message is not just a jaws discussion, so read on for an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been messing with the jaws scripting approach to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> improving
>>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the media explorer works. And, I've got something that seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway, and I'll be passing along a link to that in a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>> days.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, in working on that, I have discovered that there are lots
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> very strange irregularities regarding how key strokes are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> captured by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reaper. Usually, the control that will receive your key
>>>>>>>>>>>>> strokes is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the control that has focus. However, I have seen cases where
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> becomes not true. situations where reaper is capturing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> keystrokes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> before they get to jaws, so jaws never knows about them. Very
>>>>>>>>>>>>> irregular stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, the creation of hotkeys to quickly do things is, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> general, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> productivity enhancer, and an improvement in comfort. And, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reaper
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has an action that will apply, it is definitely a preferred
>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to use the reaper action.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, it's apparent that reaper shortcuts are very important
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> us,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and can be used to do some of the same things that a jaws
>>>>>>>>>>>>> script
>>>>>>>>>>>>> might do. But, it has the advantage of being significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stable in this particular environment, andalso of being screen
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reader
>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, what if we started centrally accumulating a list of reaper
>>>>>>>>>>>>> action
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hotkey assignments that we all find useful, so we can all talk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> same language about hot keys.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ReAccess has already made lots of assignments. But, this is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> way in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which we can extend ReAccess.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> These keymaps are just formatted text files. It looks like an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> import
>>>>>>>>>>>>> operation grabs all the key assignments from one file, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> uses them
>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively. But, you should be able to open the reaper
>>>>>>>>>>>>> default
>>>>>>>>>>>>> keymap with a text editor, and insert additional key
>>>>>>>>>>>>> assignments,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thereby effectively merging those new assignments into your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, gut wrenching, religious arguments break out
>>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever two
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or more people try to agree on an appropriate hot key choice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that will make it hard. But, if we could just figure out how
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the choice, and submit it to a growing common list, then we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>> refer to the same key strokes when we talk about how to use
>>>>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>>>> things, and the growing Wiki could reference them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once, general consensus seems to accept a proposed assignment,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> could add it to a central file that newbies could download.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those of us on the list at the time could store them locally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anybody think this is a good idea?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The discussion of a proposed addition would help make sure the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> action
>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't already exist somewhere, and help make reasonable
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hotkey
>>>>>>>>>>>>> choices. Reaper and Reaccess is a land mine environment for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hot
>>>>>>>>>>>>> keys.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> One pair of new actions I would like to assign is the ability
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> move
>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly to the start or end of a time selection. I find this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> action
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is handy when confirming that the selection exists, and that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> set up the way I want it to be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I propose windows+leftArrow and windows+right arrow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wanted to connected it to some form of bracet keys, since
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> generally involved in selections.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, I would be ok with some choice like that too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, I still find that, once I make a time selection with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alt+shift+
>>>>>>>>>>>>> left and right bracket, that, if I move to the start of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>> selection, with my new hotkey, then press space, the selected
>>>>>>>>>>>>> portion
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is all I hear.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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