[RWP] KeyMaps

indigo 33indigo at charter.net
Wed Apr 11 08:41:11 EDT 2012 

Derik, I went to midi devices with NVDA, found a device with dis abled 
after its name, pressed applications key and got nothing spoken, no 
response.
I brought focus to the word disabled with Move to focus, then pressed 
applications key, no response. Couldn't think of anything else to do.
And yet NVDA users have somehow enabled midi devices.
Thanks,
Indigo L



On 4/10/2012 10:15 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
> Derek, sorry, I'm not tracking. Where was your focus when you pressed
> applications?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Lane" <derek at pdaudio.net>
> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 1:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>
>
>> pressing the applications key worked for me.
>> I got a context menu, with enable as one of the options.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:31 AM
>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>
>>
>>> Thanks, Kerry.
>>> I had basically discovered how to get an object, like the words No
>>> Presets into focus
>>> , then Move navigator object to mouse, and left click it at the
>>> number pad.
>>>
>>> That will cause effects presets to appear in the presets combo box,
>>> if Jim's page down doesn't do the trick.
>>> I'm always trying to include NVDA into any solutions we find for
>>> ReaAccess issues
>>>
>>> Would you please write out how you configure midi devices, with NVDA;
>>> to get the word enabled, to appear after the names of midi devices in
>>> Reaper's options/preferences?
>>> I can't find any way to do that in either Jaws or Window-Eyes without
>>> Route Jaws to PC, finding the unenabled midi device, right clicking
>>> it at the number pad, then going back to the middle arrow keys and
>>> useing the configure device dialog that appears there.
>>>
>>> An equivalent of That little peculiar move seems required for sighted
>>> users also, but Roy turned me onto how to do it in Wineyes originally.
>>> So, I know you can do equivalent moves In NVDA, please do a little
>>> step by step tutorial on it for our wiki?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Indigo L
>>> On 4/9/2012 10:37 PM, Kerry Hoath wrote:
>>>> Object nav basically works like this:
>>>> you start at the lowest level by default, insert 8 moves up by a level,
>>>> insert 2 moves down.
>>>> 4 and 6 are next and previous objects.
>>>> To click on an object you first need to route the mouse to the current
>>>> navigator object with nvda-numpad * or nvda+shift+f9 on the laptop.
>>>>
>>>> Object nav does not move the mouse like Jaws/we does, so the mouse does
>>>> not move until you explicedly tell it too.
>>>> You do this by hitting nvda-* or nvda+shift+f9
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Kerry.
>>>> On 10/04/2012 3:34 AM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>> Really? shame on you for not reading my every word! <grin>
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems like, in NVDA and jaws both, you can just use alt+downArrow,
>>>>> which is the default shortcut key for the object that opens the list.
>>>>> May work in Wineyes too.
>>>>> Then, that list actually opens, but you can't tell it iwth jaws. but,
>>>>> if you use NVDA to browse the objects, at the next level down from the
>>>>> comboBox, you will see all the presets listed. Again, not using
>>>>> regular arrows, but NVDA's object browsing stuff. And, I'm sure there
>>>>> is a way to set focus on the object you browse to, maybe
>>>>> shift+inser+NumPad Minus. Not sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm focused on jaws, so I'm not thinking much about NVDA, quite
>>>>> honestly. I don't have any need to use it.
>>>>> So, I'll let other's figure that out.
>>>>> But, about the page down, my comment was that , in jaws, you can tab
>>>>> to the presets comboBox, and then press page down, and the list will
>>>>> open, and you will be placed at the bottom of the list.
>>>>> Then, you can navigate the list as usual, hearing the preset change as
>>>>> you use the arrow keys.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 6:31 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think I'm needlessly worrying about leaving alt+shift+brackets
>>>>>> markers behind, no changes should remain if I exit Reaper without
>>>>>> saving the Project, and probably escape is also removing unwanted
>>>>>> selection markers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a while back somebody said that a solution to getting a selected
>>>>>> portion of an audio track to play was to set it to loop, and then you
>>>>>> could hear that selected portion by itself, but I haven't tested
>>>>>> it yet.
>>>>>> I also once found a shortcut: Go to beginning of loop, but can't find
>>>>>> it now.
>>>>>> I'm hoping that: setting the alt+shift+brackets; then setting the
>>>>>> selected area to loop; then using: Go to beginning of loop will show
>>>>>> where the first bracket marker is located, but I've got several
>>>>>> missing pieces to this part of the jigsaw puzzle unaccounted for yet.
>>>>>> smile.
>>>>>> Also, when trying to understand how to remove No Presets from the
>>>>>> effects presets box, I mistakenly thought alt+up or down arrows was
>>>>>> displaying Presets, but I was only getting the selected track's
>>>>>> volume up and down control that's available in both track view and
>>>>>> effects routing page.
>>>>>> alt+up/down arrows for volume, alt+left/right arrows for pan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've only read snippets of your fix for No Presets in the effects
>>>>>> presets list.
>>>>>> Did you say that pressing page down while in the effects presets list
>>>>>> causes the entire preset list to display, or did I mis understand
>>>>>> that?
>>>>>> In W-E and NVDA, I get no results from pressing page down while in
>>>>>> the effects presets list.
>>>>>> My only fix in W-E is to right or left click on PARAM, then press
>>>>>> enter on Show Presets list F; then enter on Show in Track Controls.
>>>>>> Then the entire list of presets displays on the arrow keys.
>>>>>> Is this a difference in what Jaws and W-E are showing?
>>>>>> I don't know how to cause presets to display in NVDA; because I can't
>>>>>> click on PARAM.
>>>>>> Somebody more skilled with NVDA will have to solve that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I notice that, both in W-E and NVDA; pressing enter after tabbing to
>>>>>> PARAM does not open the PARAM menu, I need to route to PC and left or
>>>>>> right click there to open the Parem menu.
>>>>>> I've still yet to learn the NVDA equivalent of Route to PC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I press insert+dash; which moves to focus, and causes PAREM to show
>>>>>> at the arrow keys, but I don't know how to perform an emulated mouse
>>>>>> click on PARAM.
>>>>>> esterday was a big treasure finding day for me in Reaper, when I
>>>>>> finally got actual effects presets and values to show up.
>>>>>> At least these JS effects seem very accessible.
>>>>>> Today I'll load some classic third party effects, and hope all their
>>>>>> presets and parameters show, with meaningful names.
>>>>>> Thanks for everything,
>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/8/2012 11:08 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>> Only way I know to remove the time selection is to press escape.
>>>>>>> ReAccess will say something like selection removed, or something
>>>>>>> like that.
>>>>>>> I don't know of an easy way to tell if a selection is in place,
>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>> something I would like to crack. I find it disconcerting not to
>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems like, at one time, I had my jaws scripts showing the start and
>>>>>>> end
>>>>>>> of the selection on the braille display. But, I might be confused
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> that. It was several months ago, and I notice it isn't working
>>>>>>> now, if
>>>>>>> it ever was.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for tracks, isn't there a way to unselect all tracks?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 11:34 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jim, can I ask how to remove selection markers you add with
>>>>>>>> alt+shift+left and right brackets?
>>>>>>>> I'm not sure how to detect them, if they're actually there but I'm
>>>>>>>> just not finding them.
>>>>>>>> I'm guessing that, if I have them in place when I exit without
>>>>>>>> saving
>>>>>>>> the project they'll not be there next time, but how, other than the
>>>>>>>> edit menu undo, can I remove alt+shift+brackets?
>>>>>>>> Also, is there a way you can think of to prevent endless track
>>>>>>>> selections from being added to the undo menu?
>>>>>>>> It's a royal pain to undo all those track selections before
>>>>>>>> getting to
>>>>>>>> the actual important error I want to undo.
>>>>>>>> We need a filter to keep those from going to the undo menu.
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/7/2012 10:32 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>>> My guess is that, for sake of action hot keys, We can't use
>>>>>>>>> capslock or
>>>>>>>>> grauv.
>>>>>>>>> At the moment windows+left/right are performing no useful purpose.
>>>>>>>>> But,
>>>>>>>>> at the moment, havin those keys assigned to these actions, goto
>>>>>>>>> start or
>>>>>>>>> end of selection, what happens if there is no selection is that
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> cursor doesn't go anywhere. The default beep plays, ReAccess
>>>>>>>>> speaks the
>>>>>>>>> current position, but no motion occurs. This is actually pretty
>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>> since the actin I am requesting isn't valid anyway. So, I'm glad
>>>>>>>>> Reaper
>>>>>>>>> doesn't make me pay for it by flying me to the start of the
>>>>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>>>> That is one bad thing about the familiar sound forge paradigm, is
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> hot keys do different things depending on the circumstances. I
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> know about you, but I often forget the circumstances.
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, at the moment, I'm not too unhappy having those keys do
>>>>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>>>>> useful when nothing is selected.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Indigo, about when Reaper will play the selection only, it may
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> somethindo with whether your cursor is actually inside the
>>>>>>>>> selection at
>>>>>>>>> the time you start playback. Perhaps?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:57 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I seem to remember that actions can be strung together,
>>>>>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>>>>>> with if; then; arguments.
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe it's ReaScript. that can do that.
>>>>>>>>>> If not, then .sts extension actions surely can.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I tried Windows Key plus right and left arrows on an audio
>>>>>>>>>> track a
>>>>>>>>>> little while ago, and itseemed to just cause the cursor to move
>>>>>>>>>> along
>>>>>>>>>> the timeline.
>>>>>>>>>> Windows+left arrow went back to beginning of measure 1 and
>>>>>>>>>> stopped.
>>>>>>>>>> Holding Windows+right arrow fast forwards to the end of the
>>>>>>>>>> recording.
>>>>>>>>>> I heard, not the music; as when scrubbing with right/left arrows,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> the measures spoken as the cursor moved along them.
>>>>>>>>>> You're right, a horizontal shortcut like Windows+right arrow
>>>>>>>>>> is more
>>>>>>>>>> Intuitive to move along horizontal tracks than a vertical move
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> home and end, page up and down, but they're already assigned
>>>>>>>>>> to do
>>>>>>>>>> some of what we need to move along the time line.
>>>>>>>>>> I'll go back and try all combinations of modifiers with
>>>>>>>>>> home/end and
>>>>>>>>>> page up/down.
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if the caps lock key or accent graav; or tilda key
>>>>>>>>>> can be
>>>>>>>>>> used as modifiers?That would offer a huge number of shortcuts
>>>>>>>>>> to us.
>>>>>>>>>> Window-Eyes 6.1 and XP, in Reaper 4.21, I tried your experiment;
>>>>>>>>>> setting bracketed markers, then positioning in the middle of the
>>>>>>>>>> selected region and attempting to discover moves to cause only
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> selected portion to play.
>>>>>>>>>> I thought I got it once, but need to go back and pin down what
>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>> have done it.
>>>>>>>>>> It's a shame that Reaper isn't quite a perfectly written program,
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> like Sound Forge 6; 7; maybe 8; so that a single pressing of keys
>>>>>>>>>> always gets the same response.
>>>>>>>>>> I'll need to document them, but I deal every day with times I
>>>>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>>>>> bang at a shortcut 2 or more times before it finally gets a
>>>>>>>>>> response.
>>>>>>>>>> I haven't installed version 4.22 yet, maybe it fixes some of
>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>> little annoyances.
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/7/2012 6:22 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In sound forge, home and end do different things, depending on
>>>>>>>>>>> whether a
>>>>>>>>>>> selection is active.
>>>>>>>>>>> When one is active, they move to the startt and end of the
>>>>>>>>>>> selection.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of making them the same here. But, I
>>>>>>>>>>> dont'
>>>>>>>>>>> see a
>>>>>>>>>>> way of making actions conditional.
>>>>>>>>>>> But, perhaps there is a way. Isn't there a way of batching
>>>>>>>>>>> multiple
>>>>>>>>>>> actions together, like a macro?
>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't there a ReaScript, or some language like that behind this?
>>>>>>>>>>> Seems
>>>>>>>>>>> like a possibility.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo"
>>>>>>>>>>> <33indigo at charter.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 3:21 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jim, Home and end keys take you to the start and end of
>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever's
>>>>>>>>>>>> recorded on the track in focus, so after you make a
>>>>>>>>>>>> selection with
>>>>>>>>>>>> alt+shift+ left and right brackets, and you're somewhere within
>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>> selection, do home and end still jump to beginning and end
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> entire track and ignore your markers?
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not much on Sonar shortcuts, but what does home and end
>>>>>>>>>>>> do in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sonar with the various modifiers available?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know, but if there's a possible parallel with Sonar it
>>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>>> make it easier for some folks.
>>>>>>>>>>>> What does Sound Forge use to go to start and end of selection?
>>>>>>>>>>>> That might be an easy shortcut for Sound Forge users if it
>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> taken
>>>>>>>>>>>> already.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just thoughts,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Indigo L
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/2/2012 11:29 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This message is not just a jaws discussion, so read on for an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been messing with the jaws scripting approach to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> improving
>>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the media explorer works. And, I've got something that seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to help
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway, and I'll be passing along a link to that in a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>> days.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, in working on that, I have discovered that there are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lots of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> very strange irregularities regarding how key strokes are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> captured by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reaper. Usually, the control that will receive your key
>>>>>>>>>>>>> strokes is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the control that has focus. However, I have seen cases
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> becomes not true. situations where reaper is capturing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> keystrokes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> before they get to jaws, so jaws never knows about them. Very
>>>>>>>>>>>>> irregular stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, the creation of hotkeys to quickly do things is, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> general, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> productivity enhancer, and an improvement in comfort. And, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reaper
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has an action that will apply, it is definitely a preferred
>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to use the reaper action.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, it's apparent that reaper shortcuts are very
>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> us,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and can be used to do some of the same things that a jaws
>>>>>>>>>>>>> script
>>>>>>>>>>>>> might do. But, it has the advantage of being significantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stable in this particular environment, andalso of being screen
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reader
>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, what if we started centrally accumulating a list of reaper
>>>>>>>>>>>>> action
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hotkey assignments that we all find useful, so we can all talk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> same language about hot keys.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ReAccess has already made lots of assignments. But, this is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> way in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which we can extend ReAccess.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> These keymaps are just formatted text files. It looks like an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> import
>>>>>>>>>>>>> operation grabs all the key assignments from one file, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> uses them
>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively. But, you should be able to open the reaper
>>>>>>>>>>>>> default
>>>>>>>>>>>>> keymap with a text editor, and insert additional key
>>>>>>>>>>>>> assignments,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thereby effectively merging those new assignments into your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, gut wrenching, religious arguments break out
>>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever two
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or more people try to agree on an appropriate hot key
>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice. So,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that will make it hard. But, if we could just figure out how
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the choice, and submit it to a growing common list, then we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>> refer to the same key strokes when we talk about how to use
>>>>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>>>> things, and the growing Wiki could reference them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once, general consensus seems to accept a proposed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> assignment, we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> could add it to a central file that newbies could download.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those of us on the list at the time could store them locally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anybody think this is a good idea?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The discussion of a proposed addition would help make sure the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> action
>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't already exist somewhere, and help make reasonable
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hotkey
>>>>>>>>>>>>> choices. Reaper and Reaccess is a land mine environment for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hot
>>>>>>>>>>>>> keys.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> One pair of new actions I would like to assign is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> move
>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly to the start or end of a time selection. I find this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> action
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is handy when confirming that the selection exists, and that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> set up the way I want it to be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I propose windows+leftArrow and windows+right arrow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wanted to connected it to some form of bracet keys, since
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> generally involved in selections.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, I would be ok with some choice like that too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, I still find that, once I make a time selection with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alt+shift+
>>>>>>>>>>>>> left and right bracket, that, if I move to the start of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>> selection, with my new hotkey, then press space, the selected
>>>>>>>>>>>>> portion
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is all I hear.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>> RWP mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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