[RWP] KeyMaps

indigo 33indigo at charter.net
Wed Apr 11 08:32:09 EDT 2012 

If alt+down arrow isn't required elsewhere, I just thought it's a loss 
of a convenient track volume and pan control  for Jaws users, since your 
page down works perfectly in Jaws 13 without first pressing alt+down arrow.
Today I'll probe Wineyes highlight settings, for a clue how to get it to 
immediately do what's needed to select the right preset option, if it can.
I don't know jaws well enough yet to even know where its highlight, 
bold, underline, etcetera settings are.
There might be a Reaper setting involved.
I'll also google theCockos forums with the words No Presets.
It's often surprising how many sighted users encounter  these same issues.
Indigo L


On 4/10/2012 9:49 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
> Indigo,
> I mentioned alt+downArrow, because that is the hotkey defined for the
> open object associated with that comboBox. I learned that using an
> object browser, which is a set of special purpose scripts I use with JAWS.
> It opens the list, but it doesn't do everything that is needed to change
> the highlighted selection. So, the screen readers that are tracking that
> highlight are getting stuck. However, and this may be why we have
> sometimes thought that clicking in unexpected places will cause the
> highlight to move, all you have to do is drag the mouse across User
> Presets, or one of those preset names and, voila, suddently the
> highlight moves down to the list of presets. No clicking was required.
> Just hovering the mouse.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>
>
>> So in some posts you said alt+down arrow opens the preset list?
>> I open it now with page down, as you posted several times, but I
>> believe alt plus down arrow will always lower the track's volume.
>> I'll go back and check exactly where I was when alt plus up/down
>> arrows raise/lower volume, while alt plus left right arrows move the
>> selected track's pan left and right.
>> Thanks,
>> Indigo L
>> the track
>>
>> On 4/9/2012 3:34 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>> Really? shame on you for not reading my every word! <grin>
>>>
>>> Seems like, in NVDA and jaws both, you can just use alt+downArrow,
>>> which is the default shortcut key for the object that opens the list.
>>> May work in Wineyes too. Then, that list actually opens, but you
>>> can't tell it iwth jaws. but, if you use NVDA to browse the objects,
>>> at the next level down from the comboBox, you will see all the
>>> presets listed. Again, not using regular arrows, but NVDA's object
>>> browsing stuff. And, I'm sure there is a way to set focus on the
>>> object you browse to, maybe shift+inser+NumPad Minus. Not sure.
>>>
>>> I'm focused on jaws, so I'm not thinking much about NVDA, quite
>>> honestly. I don't have any need to use it. So, I'll let other's
>>> figure that out. But, about the page down, my comment was that , in
>>> jaws, you can tab to the presets comboBox, and then press page down,
>>> and the list will open, and you will be placed at the bottom of the
>>> list. Then, you can navigate the list as usual, hearing the preset
>>> change as you use the arrow keys.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com> Sent: Monday, April
>>> 09, 2012 6:31 AM Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>
>>>
>>>> I think I'm needlessly worrying about leaving alt+shift+brackets
>>>> markers behind, no changes should remain if I exit Reaper without
>>>> saving the Project, and probably escape is also removing unwanted
>>>> selection markers.
>>>>
>>>> a while back somebody said that a solution to getting a selected
>>>> portion of an audio track to play was to set it to loop, and then
>>>> you could hear that selected portion by itself, but I haven't
>>>> tested it yet. I also once found a shortcut: Go to beginning of
>>>> loop, but can't find it now. I'm hoping that: setting the
>>>> alt+shift+brackets; then setting the selected area to loop; then
>>>> using: Go to beginning of loop will show where the first bracket
>>>> marker is located, but I've got several missing pieces to this part
>>>> of the jigsaw puzzle unaccounted for yet. smile. Also, when trying
>>>> to understand how to remove No Presets from the effects presets
>>>> box, I mistakenly thought alt+up or down arrows was displaying
>>>> Presets, but I was only getting the selected track's volume up and
>>>> down control that's available in both track view and effects
>>>> routing page. alt+up/down arrows for volume, alt+left/right arrows
>>>> for pan.
>>>>
>>>> I've only read snippets of your fix for No Presets in the effects
>>>> presets list. Did you say that pressing page down while in the
>>>> effects presets list causes the entire preset list to display, or
>>>> did I mis understand that? In W-E and NVDA, I get no results from
>>>> pressing page down while in the effects presets list. My only fix
>>>> in W-E is to right or left click on PARAM, then press enter on Show
>>>> Presets list F; then enter on Show in Track Controls. Then the
>>>> entire list of presets displays on the arrow keys. Is this a
>>>> difference in what Jaws and W-E are showing? I don't know how to
>>>> cause presets to display in NVDA; because I can't click on PARAM.
>>>> Somebody more skilled with NVDA will have to solve that.
>>>>
>>>> I notice that, both in W-E and NVDA; pressing enter after tabbing
>>>> to PARAM does not open the PARAM menu, I need to route to PC and
>>>> left or right click there to open the Parem menu. I've still yet to
>>>> learn the NVDA equivalent of Route to PC.
>>>>
>>>> I press insert+dash; which moves to focus, and causes PAREM to show
>>>> at the arrow keys, but I don't know how to perform an emulated
>>>> mouse click on PARAM. esterday was a big treasure finding day for
>>>> me in Reaper, when I finally got actual effects presets and values
>>>> to show up. At least these JS effects seem very accessible. Today
>>>> I'll load some classic third party effects, and hope all their
>>>> presets and parameters show, with meaningful names. Thanks for
>>>> everything, Indigo L
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 4/8/2012 11:08 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>> Only way I know to remove the time selection is to press escape.
>>>>> ReAccess will say something like selection removed, or something
>>>>> like that. I don't know of an easy way to tell if a selection is
>>>>> in place, which is something I would like to crack. I find it
>>>>> disconcerting not to know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems like, at one time, I had my jaws scripts showing the start
>>>>> and end of the selection on the braille display. But, I might be
>>>>> confused about that. It was several months ago, and I notice it
>>>>> isn't working now, if it ever was.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for tracks, isn't there a way to unselect all tracks?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo"
>>>>> <33indigo at charter.net> To: "Reapers Without Peepers"
>>>>> <rwp at reaaccess.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 11:34 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim, can I ask how to remove selection markers you add with
>>>>>> alt+shift+left and right brackets? I'm not sure how to detect
>>>>>> them, if they're actually there but I'm just not finding them.
>>>>>> I'm guessing that, if I have them in place when I exit without
>>>>>> saving the project they'll not be there next time, but how,
>>>>>> other than the edit menu undo, can I remove
>>>>>> alt+shift+brackets? Also, is there a way you can think of to
>>>>>> prevent endless track selections from being added to the undo
>>>>>> menu? It's a royal pain to undo all those track selections
>>>>>> before getting to the actual important error I want to undo. We
>>>>>> need a filter to keep those from going to the undo menu.
>>>>>> Thanks, Indigo L
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/7/2012 10:32 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>> My guess is that, for sake of action hot keys, We can't use
>>>>>>> capslock or grauv. At the moment windows+left/right are
>>>>>>> performing no useful purpose. But, at the moment, havin those
>>>>>>> keys assigned to these actions, goto start or end of
>>>>>>> selection, what happens if there is no selection is that
>>>>>>> your cursor doesn't go anywhere. The default beep plays,
>>>>>>> ReAccess speaks the current position, but no motion occurs.
>>>>>>> This is actually pretty good since the actin I am requesting
>>>>>>> isn't valid anyway. So, I'm glad Reaper doesn't make me pay
>>>>>>> for it by flying me to the start of the project. That is one
>>>>>>> bad thing about the familiar sound forge paradigm, is that
>>>>>>> hot keys do different things depending on the circumstances.
>>>>>>> I don't know about you, but I often forget the
>>>>>>> circumstances. Anyway, at the moment, I'm not too unhappy
>>>>>>> having those keys do nothing useful when nothing is
>>>>>>> selected.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indigo, about when Reaper will play the selection only, it
>>>>>>> may have somethindo with whether your cursor is actually
>>>>>>> inside the selection at the time you start playback.
>>>>>>> Perhaps?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo"
>>>>>>> <33indigo at charter.net> To: "Reapers Without Peepers"
>>>>>>> <rwp at reaaccess.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:57 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, I seem to remember that actions can be strung
>>>>>>>> together, maybe with if; then; arguments. Maybe it's
>>>>>>>> ReaScript. that can do that. If not, then .sts extension
>>>>>>>> actions surely can.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I tried Windows Key plus right and left arrows on an audio
>>>>>>>> track a little while ago, and itseemed to just cause the
>>>>>>>> cursor to move along the timeline. Windows+left arrow went
>>>>>>>> back to beginning of measure 1 and stopped. Holding
>>>>>>>> Windows+right arrow fast forwards to the end of the
>>>>>>>> recording. I heard, not the music; as when scrubbing with
>>>>>>>> right/left arrows, but the measures spoken as the cursor
>>>>>>>> moved along them. You're right, a horizontal shortcut like
>>>>>>>> Windows+right arrow is more Intuitive to move along
>>>>>>>> horizontal tracks than a vertical move like home and end,
>>>>>>>> page up and down, but they're already assigned to do some
>>>>>>>> of what we need to move along the time line. I'll go back
>>>>>>>> and try all combinations of modifiers with home/end and
>>>>>>>> page up/down. I wonder if the caps lock key or accent
>>>>>>>> graav; or tilda key can be used as modifiers?That would
>>>>>>>> offer a huge number of shortcuts to us. Window-Eyes 6.1 and
>>>>>>>> XP, in Reaper 4.21, I tried your experiment; setting
>>>>>>>> bracketed markers, then positioning in the middle of the
>>>>>>>> selected region and attempting to discover moves to cause
>>>>>>>> only that selected portion to play. I thought I got it
>>>>>>>> once, but need to go back and pin down what might have done
>>>>>>>> it. It's a shame that Reaper isn't quite a perfectly
>>>>>>>> written program, more like Sound Forge 6; 7; maybe 8; so
>>>>>>>> that a single pressing of keys always gets the same
>>>>>>>> response. I'll need to document them, but I deal every day
>>>>>>>> with times I need to bang at a shortcut 2 or more times
>>>>>>>> before it finally gets a response. I haven't installed
>>>>>>>> version 4.22 yet, maybe it fixes some of those little
>>>>>>>> annoyances. Thanks, Indigo L
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/7/2012 6:22 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In sound forge, home and end do different things,
>>>>>>>>> depending on whether a selection is active. When one is
>>>>>>>>> active, they move to the startt and end of the
>>>>>>>>> selection.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of making them the same here. But,
>>>>>>>>> I dont' see a way of making actions conditional. But,
>>>>>>>>> perhaps there is a way. Isn't there a way of batching
>>>>>>>>> multiple actions together, like a macro? Isn't there a
>>>>>>>>> ReaScript, or some language like that behind this? Seems
>>>>>>>>> like a possibility.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo"
>>>>>>>>> <33indigo at charter.net> To: "Reapers Without Peepers"
>>>>>>>>> <rwp at reaaccess.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 3:21
>>>>>>>>> PM Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jim, Home and end keys take you to the start and end of
>>>>>>>>>> whatever's recorded on the track in focus, so after you
>>>>>>>>>> make a selection with alt+shift+ left and right
>>>>>>>>>> brackets, and you're somewhere within your selection,
>>>>>>>>>> do home and end still jump to beginning and end of the
>>>>>>>>>> entire track and ignore your markers? I'm not much on
>>>>>>>>>> Sonar shortcuts, but what does home and end do in Sonar
>>>>>>>>>> with the various modifiers available?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't know, but if there's a possible parallel with
>>>>>>>>>> Sonar it might make it easier for some folks. What does
>>>>>>>>>> Sound Forge use to go to start and end of selection?
>>>>>>>>>> That might be an easy shortcut for Sound Forge users if
>>>>>>>>>> it isn't taken already. Just thoughts, Indigo L
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/2/2012 11:29 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> This message is not just a jaws discussion, so read
>>>>>>>>>>> on for an interesting idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have been messing with the jaws scripting approach
>>>>>>>>>>> to improving how the media explorer works. And, I've
>>>>>>>>>>> got something that seems to help anyway, and I'll be
>>>>>>>>>>> passing along a link to that in a few days. But, in
>>>>>>>>>>> working on that, I have discovered that there are
>>>>>>>>>>> lots of very strange irregularities regarding how key
>>>>>>>>>>> strokes are captured by reaper. Usually, the control
>>>>>>>>>>> that will receive your key strokes is the control
>>>>>>>>>>> that has focus. However, I have seen cases where
>>>>>>>>>>> this becomes not true. situations where reaper is
>>>>>>>>>>> capturing keystrokes before they get to jaws, so jaws
>>>>>>>>>>> never knows about them. Very irregular stuff. But,
>>>>>>>>>>> the creation of hotkeys to quickly do things is, in
>>>>>>>>>>> general, a productivity enhancer, and an improvement
>>>>>>>>>>> in comfort. And, if reaper has an action that will
>>>>>>>>>>> apply, it is definitely a preferred solution to use
>>>>>>>>>>> the reaper action.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, it's apparent that reaper shortcuts are very
>>>>>>>>>>> important to us, and can be used to do some of the
>>>>>>>>>>> same things that a jaws script might do. But, it has
>>>>>>>>>>> the advantage of being significantly more stable in
>>>>>>>>>>> this particular environment, andalso of being screen
>>>>>>>>>>> reader independent. So, what if we started centrally
>>>>>>>>>>> accumulating a list of reaper action hotkey
>>>>>>>>>>> assignments that we all find useful, so we can all
>>>>>>>>>>> talk the same language about hot keys. ReAccess has
>>>>>>>>>>> already made lots of assignments. But, this is a way
>>>>>>>>>>> in which we can extend ReAccess. These keymaps are
>>>>>>>>>>> just formatted text files. It looks like an import
>>>>>>>>>>> operation grabs all the key assignments from one
>>>>>>>>>>> file, and uses them exclusively. But, you should be
>>>>>>>>>>> able to open the reaper default keymap with a text
>>>>>>>>>>> editor, and insert additional key assignments,
>>>>>>>>>>> thereby effectively merging those new assignments
>>>>>>>>>>> into your current settings. Of course, gut wrenching,
>>>>>>>>>>> religious arguments break out whenever two or more
>>>>>>>>>>> people try to agree on an appropriate hot key choice.
>>>>>>>>>>> So, that will make it hard. But, if we could just
>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to make the choice, and submit it to a
>>>>>>>>>>> growing common list, then we could all refer to the
>>>>>>>>>>> same key strokes when we talk about how to use such
>>>>>>>>>>> things, and the growing Wiki could reference them.
>>>>>>>>>>> Once, general consensus seems to accept a proposed
>>>>>>>>>>> assignment, we could add it to a central file that
>>>>>>>>>>> newbies could download. And, those of us on the list
>>>>>>>>>>> at the time could store them locally. Anybody think
>>>>>>>>>>> this is a good idea?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The discussion of a proposed addition would help make
>>>>>>>>>>> sure the action doesn't already exist somewhere, and
>>>>>>>>>>> help make reasonable hotkey choices. Reaper and
>>>>>>>>>>> Reaccess is a land mine environment for hot keys.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One pair of new actions I would like to assign is the
>>>>>>>>>>> ability to move directly to the start or end of a
>>>>>>>>>>> time selection. I find this action is handy when
>>>>>>>>>>> confirming that the selection exists, and that it is
>>>>>>>>>>> set up the way I want it to be. I propose
>>>>>>>>>>> windows+leftArrow and windows+right arrow. I wanted
>>>>>>>>>>> to connected it to some form of bracet keys, since
>>>>>>>>>>> those are generally involved in selections. So, I
>>>>>>>>>>> would be ok with some choice like that too.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, I still find that, once I make a time selection
>>>>>>>>>>> with alt+shift+ left and right bracket, that, if I
>>>>>>>>>>> move to the start of the time selection, with my new
>>>>>>>>>>> hotkey, then press space, the selected portion is all
>>>>>>>>>>> I hear.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ RWP
>>>>>>>>>>> mailing list RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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