[RWP] KeyMaps

Tue Apr 10 21:49:20 EDT 2012

Indigo,
I mentioned alt+downArrow, because that is the hotkey defined for the open 
object associated with that comboBox.  I learned that using an object 
browser, which is a set of special purpose scripts I use with JAWS.
It opens the list, but it doesn't do everything that is needed to change the 
highlighted selection.  So, the screen readers that are tracking that 
highlight are getting stuck.  However, and this may be why we have sometimes 
thought that clicking in unexpected places will cause the highlight to move, 
all you have to do is drag the mouse across User Presets, or one of those 
preset names and, voila, suddently the highlight moves down to the list of 
presets.  No clicking was required.
Just hovering the mouse.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps

> So in some posts you said alt+down arrow opens the preset list?
> I open it now with page down, as you posted several times, but I believe 
> alt plus down arrow will always lower the track's volume.
> I'll go back and check exactly where I was when alt plus up/down arrows 
> raise/lower volume, while alt plus left right arrows move the selected 
> track's pan left and right.
> Thanks,
> Indigo L
> the track
>
> On 4/9/2012 3:34 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>> Really? shame on you for not reading my every word! <grin>
>>
>> Seems like, in NVDA and jaws both, you can just use alt+downArrow,
>> which is the default shortcut key for the object that opens the list.
>> May work in Wineyes too. Then, that list actually opens, but you
>> can't tell it iwth jaws. but, if you use NVDA to browse the objects,
>> at the next level down from the comboBox, you will see all the
>> presets listed. Again, not using regular arrows, but NVDA's object
>> browsing stuff. And, I'm sure there is a way to set focus on the
>> object you browse to, maybe shift+inser+NumPad Minus. Not sure.
>>
>> I'm focused on jaws, so I'm not thinking much about NVDA, quite
>> honestly. I don't have any need to use it. So, I'll let other's
>> figure that out. But, about the page down, my comment was that , in
>> jaws, you can tab to the presets comboBox, and then press page down,
>> and the list will open, and you will be placed at the bottom of the
>> list. Then, you can navigate the list as usual, hearing the preset
>> change as you use the arrow keys.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo" <33indigo at charter.net>
>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com> Sent: Monday, April
>> 09, 2012 6:31 AM Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>
>>
>>> I think I'm needlessly worrying about leaving alt+shift+brackets
>>> markers behind, no changes should remain if I exit Reaper without
>>> saving the Project, and probably escape is also removing unwanted
>>> selection markers.
>>>
>>> a while back somebody said that a solution to getting a selected
>>> portion of an audio track to play was to set it to loop, and then
>>> you could hear that selected portion by itself, but I haven't
>>> tested it yet. I also once found a shortcut: Go to beginning of
>>> loop, but can't find it now. I'm hoping that: setting the
>>> alt+shift+brackets; then setting the selected area to loop; then
>>> using: Go to beginning of loop will show where the first bracket
>>> marker is located, but I've got several missing pieces to this part
>>> of the jigsaw puzzle unaccounted for yet. smile. Also, when trying
>>> to understand how to remove No Presets from the effects presets
>>> box, I mistakenly thought alt+up or down arrows was displaying
>>> Presets, but I was only getting the selected track's volume up and
>>> down control that's available in both track view and effects
>>> routing page. alt+up/down arrows for volume, alt+left/right arrows
>>> for pan.
>>>
>>> I've only read snippets of your fix for No Presets in the effects
>>> presets list. Did you say that pressing page down while in the
>>> effects presets list causes the entire preset list to display, or
>>> did I mis understand that? In W-E and NVDA, I get no results from
>>> pressing page down while in the effects presets list. My only fix
>>> in W-E is to right or left click on PARAM, then press enter on Show
>>> Presets list F; then enter on Show in Track Controls. Then the
>>> entire list of presets displays on the arrow keys. Is this a
>>> difference in what Jaws and W-E are showing? I don't know how to
>>> cause presets to display in NVDA; because I can't click on PARAM.
>>> Somebody more skilled with NVDA will have to solve that.
>>>
>>> I notice that, both in W-E and NVDA; pressing enter after tabbing
>>> to PARAM does not open the PARAM menu, I need to route to PC and
>>> left or right click there to open the Parem menu. I've still yet to
>>> learn the NVDA equivalent of Route to PC.
>>>
>>> I press insert+dash; which moves to focus, and causes PAREM to show
>>> at the arrow keys, but I don't know how to perform an emulated
>>> mouse click on PARAM. esterday was a big treasure finding day for
>>> me in Reaper, when I finally got actual effects presets and values
>>> to show up. At least these JS effects seem very accessible. Today
>>> I'll load some classic third party effects, and hope all their
>>> presets and parameters show, with meaningful names. Thanks for
>>> everything, Indigo L
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/8/2012 11:08 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>> Only way I know to remove the time selection is to press escape.
>>>> ReAccess will say something like selection removed, or something
>>>> like that. I don't know of an easy way to tell if a selection is
>>>> in place, which is something I would like to crack. I find it
>>>> disconcerting not to know.
>>>>
>>>> Seems like, at one time, I had my jaws scripts showing the start
>>>> and end of the selection on the braille display. But, I might be
>>>> confused about that. It was several months ago, and I notice it
>>>> isn't working now, if it ever was.
>>>>
>>>> As for tracks, isn't there a way to unselect all tracks?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo"
>>>> <33indigo at charter.net> To: "Reapers Without Peepers"
>>>> <rwp at reaaccess.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 11:34 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Jim, can I ask how to remove selection markers you add with
>>>>> alt+shift+left and right brackets? I'm not sure how to detect
>>>>> them, if they're actually there but I'm just not finding them.
>>>>> I'm guessing that, if I have them in place when I exit without
>>>>> saving the project they'll not be there next time, but how,
>>>>> other than the edit menu undo, can I remove
>>>>> alt+shift+brackets? Also, is there a way you can think of to
>>>>> prevent endless track selections from being added to the undo
>>>>> menu? It's a royal pain to undo all those track selections
>>>>> before getting to the actual important error I want to undo. We
>>>>> need a filter to keep those from going to the undo menu.
>>>>> Thanks, Indigo L
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/7/2012 10:32 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>> My guess is that, for sake of action hot keys, We can't use
>>>>>> capslock or grauv. At the moment windows+left/right are
>>>>>> performing no useful purpose. But, at the moment, havin those
>>>>>> keys assigned to these actions, goto start or end of
>>>>>> selection, what happens if there is no selection is that
>>>>>> your cursor doesn't go anywhere. The default beep plays,
>>>>>> ReAccess speaks the current position, but no motion occurs.
>>>>>> This is actually pretty good since the actin I am requesting
>>>>>> isn't valid anyway. So, I'm glad Reaper doesn't make me pay
>>>>>> for it by flying me to the start of the project. That is one
>>>>>> bad thing about the familiar sound forge paradigm, is that
>>>>>> hot keys do different things depending on the circumstances.
>>>>>> I don't know about you, but I often forget the
>>>>>> circumstances. Anyway, at the moment, I'm not too unhappy
>>>>>> having those keys do nothing useful when nothing is
>>>>>> selected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indigo, about when Reaper will play the selection only, it
>>>>>> may have somethindo with whether your cursor is actually
>>>>>> inside the selection at the time you start playback.
>>>>>> Perhaps?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo"
>>>>>> <33indigo at charter.net> To: "Reapers Without Peepers"
>>>>>> <rwp at reaaccess.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:57 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I seem to remember that actions can be strung
>>>>>>> together, maybe with if; then; arguments. Maybe it's
>>>>>>> ReaScript. that can do that. If not, then .sts extension
>>>>>>> actions surely can.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I tried Windows Key plus right and left arrows on an audio
>>>>>>> track a little while ago, and itseemed to just cause the
>>>>>>> cursor to move along the timeline. Windows+left arrow went
>>>>>>> back to beginning of measure 1 and stopped. Holding
>>>>>>> Windows+right arrow fast forwards to the end of the
>>>>>>> recording. I heard, not the music; as when scrubbing with
>>>>>>> right/left arrows, but the measures spoken as the cursor
>>>>>>> moved along them. You're right, a horizontal shortcut like
>>>>>>> Windows+right arrow is more Intuitive to move along
>>>>>>> horizontal tracks than a vertical move like home and end,
>>>>>>> page up and down, but they're already assigned to do some
>>>>>>> of what we need to move along the time line. I'll go back
>>>>>>> and try all combinations of modifiers with home/end and
>>>>>>> page up/down. I wonder if the caps lock key or accent
>>>>>>> graav; or tilda key can be used as modifiers?That would
>>>>>>> offer a huge number of shortcuts to us. Window-Eyes 6.1 and
>>>>>>> XP, in Reaper 4.21, I tried your experiment; setting
>>>>>>> bracketed markers, then positioning in the middle of the
>>>>>>> selected region and attempting to discover moves to cause
>>>>>>> only that selected portion to play. I thought I got it
>>>>>>> once, but need to go back and pin down what might have done
>>>>>>> it. It's a shame that Reaper isn't quite a perfectly
>>>>>>> written program, more like Sound Forge 6; 7; maybe 8; so
>>>>>>> that a single pressing of keys always gets the same
>>>>>>> response. I'll need to document them, but I deal every day
>>>>>>> with times I need to bang at a shortcut 2 or more times
>>>>>>> before it finally gets a response. I haven't installed
>>>>>>> version 4.22 yet, maybe it fixes some of those little
>>>>>>> annoyances. Thanks, Indigo L
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/7/2012 6:22 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>> In sound forge, home and end do different things,
>>>>>>>> depending on whether a selection is active. When one is
>>>>>>>> active, they move to the startt and end of the
>>>>>>>> selection.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of making them the same here. But,
>>>>>>>> I dont' see a way of making actions conditional. But,
>>>>>>>> perhaps there is a way. Isn't there a way of batching
>>>>>>>> multiple actions together, like a macro? Isn't there a
>>>>>>>> ReaScript, or some language like that behind this? Seems
>>>>>>>> like a possibility.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "indigo"
>>>>>>>> <33indigo at charter.net> To: "Reapers Without Peepers"
>>>>>>>> <rwp at reaaccess.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 3:21
>>>>>>>> PM Subject: Re: [RWP] KeyMaps
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jim, Home and end keys take you to the start and end of
>>>>>>>>> whatever's recorded on the track in focus, so after you
>>>>>>>>> make a selection with alt+shift+ left and right
>>>>>>>>> brackets, and you're somewhere within your selection,
>>>>>>>>> do home and end still jump to beginning and end of the
>>>>>>>>> entire track and ignore your markers? I'm not much on
>>>>>>>>> Sonar shortcuts, but what does home and end do in Sonar
>>>>>>>>> with the various modifiers available?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't know, but if there's a possible parallel with
>>>>>>>>> Sonar it might make it easier for some folks. What does
>>>>>>>>> Sound Forge use to go to start and end of selection?
>>>>>>>>> That might be an easy shortcut for Sound Forge users if
>>>>>>>>> it isn't taken already. Just thoughts, Indigo L
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/2/2012 11:29 PM, Jim Snowbarger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> This message is not just a jaws discussion, so read
>>>>>>>>>> on for an interesting idea.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have been messing with the jaws scripting approach
>>>>>>>>>> to improving how the media explorer works. And, I've
>>>>>>>>>> got something that seems to help anyway, and I'll be
>>>>>>>>>> passing along a link to that in a few days. But, in
>>>>>>>>>> working on that, I have discovered that there are
>>>>>>>>>> lots of very strange irregularities regarding how key
>>>>>>>>>> strokes are captured by reaper. Usually, the control
>>>>>>>>>> that will receive your key strokes is the control
>>>>>>>>>> that has focus. However, I have seen cases where
>>>>>>>>>> this becomes not true. situations where reaper is
>>>>>>>>>> capturing keystrokes before they get to jaws, so jaws
>>>>>>>>>> never knows about them. Very irregular stuff. But,
>>>>>>>>>> the creation of hotkeys to quickly do things is, in
>>>>>>>>>> general, a productivity enhancer, and an improvement
>>>>>>>>>> in comfort. And, if reaper has an action that will
>>>>>>>>>> apply, it is definitely a preferred solution to use
>>>>>>>>>> the reaper action.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, it's apparent that reaper shortcuts are very
>>>>>>>>>> important to us, and can be used to do some of the
>>>>>>>>>> same things that a jaws script might do. But, it has
>>>>>>>>>> the advantage of being significantly more stable in
>>>>>>>>>> this particular environment, andalso of being screen
>>>>>>>>>> reader independent. So, what if we started centrally
>>>>>>>>>> accumulating a list of reaper action hotkey
>>>>>>>>>> assignments that we all find useful, so we can all
>>>>>>>>>> talk the same language about hot keys. ReAccess has
>>>>>>>>>> already made lots of assignments. But, this is a way
>>>>>>>>>> in which we can extend ReAccess. These keymaps are
>>>>>>>>>> just formatted text files. It looks like an import
>>>>>>>>>> operation grabs all the key assignments from one
>>>>>>>>>> file, and uses them exclusively. But, you should be
>>>>>>>>>> able to open the reaper default keymap with a text
>>>>>>>>>> editor, and insert additional key assignments,
>>>>>>>>>> thereby effectively merging those new assignments
>>>>>>>>>> into your current settings. Of course, gut wrenching,
>>>>>>>>>> religious arguments break out whenever two or more
>>>>>>>>>> people try to agree on an appropriate hot key choice.
>>>>>>>>>> So, that will make it hard. But, if we could just
>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to make the choice, and submit it to a
>>>>>>>>>> growing common list, then we could all refer to the
>>>>>>>>>> same key strokes when we talk about how to use such
>>>>>>>>>> things, and the growing Wiki could reference them.
>>>>>>>>>> Once, general consensus seems to accept a proposed
>>>>>>>>>> assignment, we could add it to a central file that
>>>>>>>>>> newbies could download. And, those of us on the list
>>>>>>>>>> at the time could store them locally. Anybody think
>>>>>>>>>> this is a good idea?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The discussion of a proposed addition would help make
>>>>>>>>>> sure the action doesn't already exist somewhere, and
>>>>>>>>>> help make reasonable hotkey choices. Reaper and
>>>>>>>>>> Reaccess is a land mine environment for hot keys.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One pair of new actions I would like to assign is the
>>>>>>>>>> ability to move directly to the start or end of a
>>>>>>>>>> time selection. I find this action is handy when
>>>>>>>>>> confirming that the selection exists, and that it is
>>>>>>>>>> set up the way I want it to be. I propose
>>>>>>>>>> windows+leftArrow and windows+right arrow. I wanted
>>>>>>>>>> to connected it to some form of bracet keys, since
>>>>>>>>>> those are generally involved in selections. So, I
>>>>>>>>>> would be ok with some choice like that too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BTW, I still find that, once I make a time selection
>>>>>>>>>> with alt+shift+ left and right bracket, that, if I
>>>>>>>>>> move to the start of the time selection, with my new
>>>>>>>>>> hotkey, then press space, the selected portion is all
>>>>>>>>>> I hear.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ RWP
>>>>>>>>>> mailing list RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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