[RWP] ok people, lets fix the reaaccess site

Derek Lane derek at pdaudio.net
Wed Dec 22 04:44:36 EST 2010 

yay for really cool presents.
We like those.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Chesworth" <scottchesworth at gmail.com>
To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: [RWP] ok people, lets fix the reaaccess site


> Hi Bryan,
>
> Inspiring stuff, thanks for posting that man. I liked BBPress because
> it seemed like a forum without the clutter and hassle for screen
> readers in a lot of ways, but between that being neglected by the
> Wordpress wizkids and your numbers, I'm thinking a forum is overkill
> right now.
>
> OK folks, give me a couple of days tops to research hosted CMS
> packages, or keep the recommendations of good ones coming if you have
> them. By Christmas latest, we will have something simple sorted for
> the next release.
>
> Cheers
> Scott
>
> PS. Sure, I know about your work related conflict of interest. It's
> cool to have you here taking an interest in Reaper though.
>
> On 12/22/10, Bryan Smart <bryansmart at bryansmart.com> wrote:
>> Believe it or not, some people have a hard time using FTP. Beyond that,
>> basic FTP doesn't allow for even file descriptions.
>>
>> Blind online communities use e-mail because the interface is so basic, 
>> and
>> the clients are optimized for interacting with a screen reader. Forums 
>> are
>> perhaps the easier way to go in terms of technical infrastructure, but 
>> using
>> forums with a screen reader is a cluttered experience. Expert users can
>> handle it, but users with moderate experience can't. If you take that
>> approach, what you'll discover is that the experts read and contribute, 
>> the
>> users with moderate knowledge will read but will rarely post, and the
>> novices will use it very little altogether.
>>
>> As you say, Scot, the e-mail list is small, and people aren't likely to
>> participate. My experience with my own projects is the same as you; you 
>> need
>> maybe 10 to 15 list/community members in order to get 1 member that has 
>> time
>> and motivation to contribute to the project in a primary role. About 1 in 
>> 10
>> actually post to lists on any sort of regular basis, so the bar for
>> contributing via writing/answering questions is lower, but not by much.
>>
>> For what it's worth, I advise that you stick with the route that makes it
>> easiest for people to obtain info and contribute in some capacity, over 
>> all
>> other concerns. When you have 200 or 300 community members, then you can
>> inconvenience a few so that the other can be more productive, but, until
>> then, you must keep the complexity down as much as possible in order to
>> retain people resources.
>>
>> I suggest a focus on the absolute core needs, and meeting those needs in 
>> the
>> way that uses the fewest resources. That sounds obvious, but it is
>> deceptively easy to lose sight of the obvious. Forums take time to setup
>> (which you don't have), and time to moderate (which you don't have, 
>> either).
>> A WIKI would need to be moderated/edited, also. Any big site would need 
>> to
>> be routinely checked for spam/hacking, software upgraded to patch 
>> security
>> holes, and the site (including databases) backed up. Hardly anyone has 
>> time
>> for that sort of work on a side project, either. So, starting down that 
>> road
>> is going to eat up a lot of time initially, but will require even more 
>> time,
>> month-to-month, that won't be dependably contributed. Work will fall 
>> behind,
>> and, one day, you'll find that the site will have been p0wn3d by some 12
>> year old in Dirkdirkastan for the lultz. Then, everyone will be waiting 
>> for
>> the site to be rebuilt, backups to be restored, etc.
>>
>> Put up a simple Wordpress or variant. Don't allow public account creation 
>> or
>> sign in. Make a category for ReaAccess releases. Every time there is a
>> release, upload the release, make a post in the ReaAccess category with 
>> an
>> announcement plus links to the files, and forget it. The category will 
>> serve
>> as a release history/links collection. People can subscribe to a category 
>> as
>> an RSS feed, so that's an automatic way of getting release notices out
>> there.
>>
>> If people write up notes or a guide, they e-mail it to you, you add a 
>> static
>> page, and paste in what they wrote.
>>
>> If someone contributes often, then you manually create them an account on
>> the site and assign them rights to edit pages, but don't let them post to
>> the protected categories (like the ReaAccess releases).
>>
>> Very simple. No coding required. Little maintenance. Until you have other
>> users on the site, you're the bottleneck for posting new content, but the
>> tme required to log in, crete a page, and paste in text from an e-mail, 
>> or
>> add a link, isn't much.
>>
>> The only bit that is worth thinking about is the maintenance. If you're
>> running the site on a shell account somewhere, then it is on you to play
>> baby system admin with the site. You must patch/upgrade, and you must
>> backup. Someone will seriously hack you one day. That will come sooner if
>> you can't patch quickly after new releases come out. If you don't have a
>> regular backup, then all of the work put in to the site will have been 
>> lost.
>> You probably know that, but, in a project like this where the 
>> contributions
>> are rare, and the resources for making those contributions are rare, 
>> also,
>> the content is worth a lot. If you lose it, it will probably never be
>> recreated.
>>
>> Being baby system admin for tiny project web sites isn't a great way for
>> spending the limited time of my day. For that reason, I outsource the 
>> admin
>> functions. You might want to consider hosting the ReaAccess site on a 
>> hosted
>> CMS service. For a little money, you can have all of their banners and 
>> other
>> branding disappear. You lose a little flexibility, but, importantly, you 
>> can
>> forget about maintaining customizations, patching software, and backing 
>> up
>> data. Instead, you only have to think about the site when you're throwing 
>> up
>> content.
>>
>> I say get a simple hosted blog or CMS, put up a bare bones site with the
>> essentials (less to maintain), and let people e-mail contributions to 
>> you.
>> Later, add Derek or others as authors on the site. Practically no work
>> required from anyone.
>>
>> Forums are great, when you're trying to quickly manage conversations 
>> between
>> hundreds of users. For a few, though, it's overkill. Same thing for a big
>> web site. When you're little, you must leverage prebuilt bits and pieces 
>> to
>> let you get results in a shorter period of time, and with less work. I 
>> know
>> that the impulse in a small project is to try to cut every corner and 
>> save
>> every penny, but taking that to extremes will actually work against you. 
>> If
>> $5 or even $20 will take away a headache like site admin, then pay it. 
>> After
>> all, how many hours will you spend if you do it yourself? I don't know 
>> what
>> you make at your day job, but, even if you skip out on $40 a year for a
>> hosted solution, and spend only one hour per month working on the site, 
>> then
>> you're working for less than $4 per hour. No way I'm putting up with
>> technical headaches for $4 per hour. I'd rather be making twice as much
>> cleaning toilets. *laugh* Ask for people to make $5 donations via PayPal 
>> for
>> the resources that you need. They can post to the list when they donate, 
>> so
>> there will be a record of the donations. Once you have enough in your
>> Paypal, you buy the service.
>>
>> Anyway, I don't have the spare time to build the site, and I have a
>> work-related conflict of interest, also, but I hope that this info helps
>> with firming up plans.
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rwp-bounces at reaaccess.com [mailto:rwp-bounces at reaaccess.com] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Derek Lane
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:55 PM
>> To: Reapers Without Peepers
>> Subject: Re: [RWP] ok people, lets fix the reaaccess site
>>
>> Well, lets get back to basics.
>> This mailing list covers the forum aspect, for the exchanging of
>> projects/presets etc. an ftp site somewhere would cover that.
>> All tha really need be done is to have a site which summerizes the 
>> purpose
>> of the program, gives links, and some getting started tips.
>> Quick, simple, and... now that i think about it, what the site was when 
>> the
>> project first got off the ground.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Scott Chesworth" <scottchesworth at gmail.com>
>> To: "Reapers Without Peepers" <rwp at reaaccess.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [RWP] ok people, lets fix the reaaccess site
>>
>>
>>> Hi chaps,
>>>
>>> I own the ReaAccess.com domain and hosting, and am holding my hands up
>>> looking pretty guilty as I write this. There was talk of a wiki-based
>>> system here a while ago if you recall? I thought that a sensible move
>>> would be to make the domain a forum because:
>>> A) It's easier to post knowledge to that than to a wiki, so after a
>>> while people could just cherry-pick the best topics and make them
>>> sticky.
>>> B) it would encourage a sense of comunity between users, perhaps more
>>> sharing of example projects/templates/whatever.
>>> C) Most of the action happens in the forum at reaper.fm, it seemed
>>> right that we should fall in line with that model.
>>>
>>> Having thrown BBPress onto the domain, I moved job/house/had some huge
>>> real life changes to grapple with which totally got in the way of
>>> finishing up, and as Brian rightly says, it's slipped further and
>>> further down the things to do list. Before reading this thread, it was
>>> buried in the cluttered corner of doom I reserve for avoidance. This,
>>> obviously, is not good enough.
>>>
>>> I checked the domain today and was incredulous at the amount of spam
>>> that has been racking up in my absence, in spite of several anti-spam
>>> measures being installed. After a bit of research into BBPress, it
>>> would seem that it too is at something of a standstill, so as neat and
>>> stripped down as it is, it probably isn't the right basket to put our
>>> eggs in.
>>>
>>> So, this is a call to arms. Do we have amongst us a techie type who
>>> can get the framework in place? Personally, I'm still taken with the
>>> idea of a forum, but anything is preferable to what's there now. I'd
>>> do this myself, but real life is still far too hectic. I can and hope
>>> always to be able to meet the other commitments I've made to the
>>> ReaAccess developer, but they are my strong suit, hence they take far
>>> less time than the webbie stuff in which I'm a bit of a newbie, all be
>>> it a keen one.
>>> Hosting-wise the payments are taken care of, you'd have 5 MySQL
>>> databases to play with, PHP, Apache2, could probably get shell access
>>> if I request it, and more bandwidth per month than you could shake a
>>> stick at. Appreciation-wise you'd have a comunity of 50 upward mailing
>>> list members, which means somewhere between 5-10 actual contributors
>>> if previous projects are anything to go by.
>>>
>>> As an insentive to get things off the ground, I can tell you that
>>> Ivan, the dude that makes all this happen is very close to a new
>>> release. We've got good stuff happening with sends/receives/the master
>>> track amongst other perks such as multiple and non-contiguous
>>> track/item selection. It's a round off the edges type release, but I
>>> think you're all going to like it. It would be super awesome if we
>>> could get some momentum back as a comunity and keep Ivan enthused,
>>> because once he gets going he works like a demon.
>>>
>>> Any takers? Feel free to email on or off list, the choice is yours.
>>>
>>> Thanks much, and sorry once again for falling so far behind with the
>>> state of the domain. I assure you that I haven't been sitting on a
>>> beach sipping cocktails.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 12/22/10, Derek Lane <derek at pdaudio.net> wrote:
>>>> I'd be willing to help in  any way, if it let the reaaccess team
>>>> spend more time developing
>>>>
>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>   From: Bryan Smart
>>>>   To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>>   Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 6:04 PM
>>>>   Subject: Re: [RWP] ok people, lets fix the reaaccess site
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Right now, the site is a Wordpress. That's fine if a single person
>>>> wants to maintain the entire site. It isn't as easy for a team of
>>>> people to collaborate on a Wordpress site, though. The best that you
>>>> can do is to add several people as authors, and give them permission
>>>> to post articles in certain areas of the site. They can't update any
>>>> of the site structure, or perform any other large scale edits.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   It's obvious that the ReaAccess people don't have the time to work
>>>> on the site. They can either let the site be another obligation that
>>>> they can't meet, dragging them down, or they can deligate part of the
>>>> work to others in the community. In the first case, the site will
>>>> only be updated irregularly and in spirts, if ever, and it will be
>>>> harder to attract new users to your project. If the second, then you
>>>> need to put a system in place for deligating the tech writing
>>>> projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   If you have the time to rearchitect, then it would be better to
>>>> create a site based on Drupal or Joomla. That would give you lots of
>>>> options for passing out responsibility of different areas of the site
>>>> to different people. You can, for example, create authors that can
>>>> only write in their assigned section. However, you can also create
>>>> users to serve as editors.
>>>> Editors would be trusted users that can write or edit in multiple
>>>> sections.
>>>> They'd take most of the editing/approval/site admin tasks off of you,
>>>> while not being able to edit the core functionality of the site.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   If you don't have time for any of that, then, at minimum, you need
>>>> to create some users on your Wordpress site as editors, Give them
>>>> assigned sections, such as FAQ, getting started documents, etc, and
>>>> add widgets to the sidebar and archive references in the main body of
>>>> the page that would display content that has been created in their
>>>> sections.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Anyway, unless you're making lots of money, you can't come up with
>>>> resources to do it all internally. You either must learn to spread
>>>> the work around, properly supervised, or get buried under the
>>>> mounting to-do list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Bryan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   From: rwp-bounces at reaaccess.com [mailto:rwp-bounces at reaaccess.com]
>>>> On Behalf Of Derek Lane
>>>>   Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 4:36 PM
>>>>   To: Reapers Without Peepers
>>>>   Subject: [RWP] ok people, lets fix the reaaccess site
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   The developers of rea access are some amazing people.  Their work
>>>> is solid, and, at least for me, itlets me be very productive in tasks
>>>> from tracking/mixing to mastering/restoration.
>>>>
>>>>   The problem is, the reaaccess site is  broken.  So it keeps the
>>>> community from growing due to the fact that the actual project isn't
>>>> available as a link, anywhere on the site.
>>>>
>>>>   If someone could  fix reaaccess.info, I'd appreciate it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ---------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>>   RWP mailing list
>>>>   RWP at reaaccess.com
>>>>   http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> RWP at reaaccess.com
>>> http://reaaccess.com/mailman/listinfo/rwp_reaaccess.com
>>>
>>
>>
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>
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