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k i'll put some in my fileupyours account later<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 8/4/2011 9:03 PM, Brandon Misch wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:39C635B3-5056-4828-869F-5E30715B957D@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html;
charset=iso-8859-1">
i would but i don't see the attachments anymore.
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Aug 4, 2011, at 8:54 PM, Alex H. wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<title></title>
<div> can't you get the samples forom the list they're
attached to ethe other emaisl<br>
<br>
On 8/4/2011 8:43 PM, Brandon Misch wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:3E5FB93A-95B0-4881-91E0-A4E4FD63D7B7@gmail.com"
type="cite"> is there a way i can hear the samples?
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Aug 4, 2011, at 6:28 PM, Alex H. wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<title></title>
<div> My idea is to just do a last bit of tweakage
on the voices as far as formant parameters go,
then do a initial release. It need not sound
like a particular version, just loads better
than that Hlsyn stuff from before The current
version sounds like maybe a 4.5 or 4.6x version,
and that is totally fine to me. It's DECTalk and
it's sounding unique, crisp and clear. As
Raymond pointed out, there's a bit of word
running together, such as "test of" but othr
than that, things are looking up for DECTalk.
Any thoughts?<br>
<br>
Alex<br>
<br>
On 8/4/2011 1:31 PM, ebruckert Bruckert wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAMECcJ2jpe7s8n_wuja3OhtQv1+bTYdi2wd65HmxDN0kCtPtgA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>Here is my plan we need to now enter a
release cycle where Corine and I now
carefully to the voices on the new
synthesizer bass and come out the first
release. I'm unwilling to try to make an
exact match before we do a first release.
There are many reasons for this and the real
issue is this is the way to really start.
After the initial release then we worry
about other details where we have to look
for consensus on what people would like a
like. Also in many areas the rules are
highly interactive so a change may fix the
exact problem you're trying to fix, but have
unintended side effects. Also there's issues
like shutter priority be to provide a way to
better control the synthesizer by getting
around blocked commands by the screen reader
application. I will update the file system
and get started with corine hopefully
tomorrow. Today I'm sick as a dog so I don't
want to do anything when I can barely think.
And I am willing to continue for free to try
and please the users as long as there is
interest.</div>
<div>For myself I can say I've listened to
DECtalk so much, that I'm quite happy with
the version we have right now.<br>
</div>
<div>As a point of interest what I think I
have learned so far is that the single
biggest issue was spectral tilt, when we
incorporated change made by Dennis which
from a speech standpoint is more correct
meaning more natural in a spectral
range. But from the overwhelming reaction we
have anecdotal proof that this spectral
shape is better for users. This is actually
not terribly surprising because on the other
side of the coin we lack the higher formants
because for compute and other reasons it was
impossible to add these to the synthesizer.
At this point theoretically we could add
them in but it's is fairly large effort
because we'd have to go from integer
arithmetic to floating point for the vocal
track as were presently at the limit of what
we can do with 16-bit integers. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 7:46 AM, FRIDO
ORDEMANN <span><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:enablerehab@verizon.net">enablerehab@verizon.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<div>i can't tell the difference when
listening as Ed suggests -
excellent!</div>
<div>thanks, Ed</div>
<div><br>
<div> <b><span>From:</span></b>
Alex H. <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com">linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span>To:</span></b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dectalk@bluegrasspals.com">dectalk@bluegrasspals.com</a><br>
<b><span>Sent:</span></b> Wed,
August 3, 2011 4:34:48 PM
<div><br>
<b><span>Subject:</span></b> Re:
[DECtalk] Some DECtalk history
and what I think we can and
can't reasonably do<br>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
Agreed. This new sample rules.
It's pretty darn close to the
original and has its own
coolness..<br>
<br>
alex<br>
<br>
On 8/3/2011 4:09 PM, jake
mcmahan wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">On
8/3/2011 3:42 PM, ebruckert
Bruckert wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">Okay
as an update listen to the
to wave files separately
not back-and-forth listen
to one we waited a few
minutes listen to the
other. See if you agree
were getting closer, one
of course is what you sent
me<br>
<br>
<div>On Wed, Aug 3, 2011
at 1:43 PM, ebruckert
Bruckert <span><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:edbruckert@gmail.com">edbruckert@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>agreed
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On Wed, Aug
3, 2011 at 1:38
PM, Alex H. <span><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com">linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>
<div>I, too,
hope that
HLsyn
eventually
will be a
viable option
and we could
use the old
method or
HLsyn if we
wanted, maybe
for reading
long texts and
so on. It's a
great idea and
theory but
just isn't
mature enough
at this point.<br>
<br>
Alex
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 8/3/2011
1:13 PM,
ebruckert
Bruckert
wrote:
<blockquote
type="cite">There's
always two
sides to a
coin, if
DECtalk hadn't
been purchased
it would have
died. And
since there
was no money
from anyone to
work on
handicapped
applications,
we had to do
what our
customers want
it or go home.
I recognize
that the HLsyn
work did not
yield the
hoped-for
results and
perhaps
someday it can
with what we
learned in our
failures. But
it was a
decision based
on the best
knowledge we
had at the
time and in
fact also with
Dennis Klatt's
work. The
problems that
occurred with
the HL sin
version aren't
of any
interest to me
because the
version put
out was in
early one and
it's not the
right time to
pursue trying
to perfect
HLsyn. S<br>
<div>On all I
can do is my
best. </div>
<div> As to
the person
that mentioned
the idea of
putting
meaning into
the text.
DECtalk
actually has
the ability to
do some
marketing and
adjustment to
train achieve
that by hand.
Automating the
system to do
that is deal
beyond our
knowledge and
capability.
Understanding
what is being
conveyed is
extremely
extremely
difficult for
a computer. A
simple
example;"You
did that."
Depending on
which word you
emphasize most
there are
three
different ways
of saying this
very simple
sentence with
dramatically
different
meanings. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> Wed, Aug
3, 2011 at
12:07 PM, Alex
H. <span><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com">linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>Well, to
us,, we never
really heard
later versions
of DT, only
the classics
from the 90's,
so forgive us
if we compare
the new
attempts to
prior versions
- it's not
like we have a
huge library
of source code
to just browse
at will and
endless
samples of
every
version....
so... yeah.<br>
<br>
Wanna know
what's been
wrong with the
samples and
attempts
posted to this
list a few
months ago for
the sapi
dectalk? I'll
tell you.<br>
<br>
The voices
were clipping
and squawking,
and all the
voices sounded
like they had
a speech
problem.
Perfect Paul
wasn't perfect
as most of us
have heard
before. The
voices
themselves
sound not like
DECTalk at
all, they also
drop out in
volume, just
like a human
cuz it's using
HLsyn to make
it sound more
natural. <br>
I've heard DT
4.2cd, 4.3,
4.4, 4.61,
4.62 and 4.64.
But since
you've pointed
out before
that version
numbers don't
matter to
speak, is this
even important
anyway or are
we just
listening to
the same code
with minor
tweaks to get
the various
versions we
know?<br>
<br>
Disable HLsyn
in the new
product, and
it'll suck
less. I like
forment based
synths, not
ones that try
and sound
human, because
I and others
are used to
classic
forment
non-HLsyn
versions of
DECTalk. True
that HLsyn is
still formant
but it's
trying to
sound real and
have human
articulation,
and knowing
that I can
understand why
this version
sounds
different.
It's just not
what we're
used to,
that's all.
Some Joe Blow
off the street
who has never
heard
synthesized
speech can't
understand
Eloquence from
DECTalk from
Espeak
anyways, so
this point of
understanding
speech is a
moot one.
They'd be
better off
using Cepstral
or some
human-sampled
synths and
wasting their
hard drive
space. This is
being targeted
at a
relatively
small group of
people who
have used
DECTalk before
and like it,
so i think
we're safe
there. I'd
consider
giving HLsyn
another shot
if it was
completed. But
as always,
corporate
America screws
everyone over
in the end,
and that was
the case with
Dectalk. So
much so, that
Fonix wanted
to make
FonixTalk and
specificly try
and make it
sound human.
The result
sucks.<br>
<br>
<br>
Alex<br>
On 8/3/2011
11:17 AM,
ebruckert
Bruckert
wrote:
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div> First
of all let me
make you aware
that I use
DragonDictate,
as I can't see
very well and
proofreading
is quite
painful so
you'll have to
forgive and
interpret from
mistakes the
DragonDictate
may make. It</div>
<div> I was
taught about
form and
speech
synthesis by
Dennis Klatt,
and by reading
but before my
involvement
with him I
knew next to
nothing. One
of the
questions in
the early days
was could you
achieve higher
intelligibility
by super
articulation
and do better
than natural
speech. What
testing
revealed was
really two
things. At
normal
speaking rates
the answer
always seem to
be that the
closer you
matched to
real speech
the better the
intelligibility
at higher
speaking rates
above that
which humans
could normally
achieve things
were little
different and
I'm not going
to go into the
specifics of
what we did to
make things
better at high
speed other
than to say
they were
based on
knowledge of
speech
perception.</div>
<div> The
second thing
we learned is
that listening
to a
synthesizer
has a very
fast but steep
learning
curve.
Somewhat
analogous to
learning to
understand a
person with a
strong dialect
or speech
impediment. One
of the
problems we
encountered is
that people
often
preferred the
version they
were used to
over any
succeeding
version. But
actual tests
did not
support the
preference.</div>
<div> One
example is the
way tilt was
done inside
DECtalk. The
original
mechanism was
a crude
approximation
of spectral
tilt. Dennis
before he died
developed a
much more
accurate (meaning
matching human
production)
tilt filter
that was not
able to be
incorporated
to a later
date. As a
point of
interest
Dennis was so
dedicated that
he last
modified the
DECtalk code 3
days before he
passed
away. So the
spectral tilt
was changed
and this
changed what
you might
consider the
tone control
on an old
radio or
record player.
That is just
one of many
reasons why
DECtalk change
slightly over
the years.</div>
<div> The
5.0 DECtalk
Incorporated
the work of
Prof. Ken
Stevens who
was Dennis is
blessed MIT
and close
friend. The
5.0 code
unfortunately
did not yield
the expected
results, but
we did learn a
lot from the
attempt. This</div>
<div>
there are even
some changes
to DECtalk
that would
change the way
it sounds from
any particular
version, such
as Intonation
that I am
unwilling to
revert because
I know for a
fact that they
caused loss of
information.
So my goal is
very simple I
am working to
create a very
functional
intelligible
DECtalk to put
back out, I am
unwilling to
try and make
it sound
exactly like
any given
person wants
to. I have
been through
this before
and the year
is very
sensitive and
if you
directly
comparing two
versions
side-by-side
you not
testing
anything but
whether did
the same and
that is an
exercise in
futility.
T </div>
<div> </div>
Any specific
issues I can
address.
Secondly as a
word of
warning to
listeners
providing
feedback. The
other thing
we've learned
is that
listeners are
excellent at
deciding that
something is
not right, but
are absolutely
terrible at
exactly
pinpointing
the
problem. The
reason for
this is quite
simple people
judge the
output as
speech which
it only kinda
is, by this I
mean that a
synthesizer
can make
mistakes that
humans cannot
possibly do
and as a
consequence
can't possibly
recognize. An
example of
this is that
after so many
years of
working with
it I have
learned to
hear a foreman
that's moving
too rapidly,
but most
people cannot
hear it. This
is because to
make life easy
we try to lead
nor stuff
that's not
important in
our language,
such as the
nasal
lifestyles in
French or the
retro flex
ours in
American
English which
is Sheehan
have a heckuva
time hearing.
<div>
<pre>
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</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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</blockquote>
Ed, good mighty lord, you're
doing exelent dude. <br>
<pre>
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