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On 8/3/2011 3:42 PM, ebruckert Bruckert wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAMECcJ3L7RsLRjVA_Wuiyfsy2Lc1aukgQ9p6-N6gt38Sm=Jg1w@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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Okay as an update listen to the to wave files separately not
back-and-forth listen to one we waited a few minutes listen to the
other. See if you agree were getting closer, one of course is what
you sent me<br>
<br>
<div>On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 1:43 PM, ebruckert Bruckert <span><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:edbruckert@gmail.com">edbruckert@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>agreed
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Alex H. <span><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com">linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>
<div>I, too, hope that HLsyn eventually will be a
viable option and we could use the old method or
HLsyn if we wanted, maybe for reading long texts and
so on. It's a great idea and theory but just isn't
mature enough at this point.<br>
<br>
Alex
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 8/3/2011 1:13 PM, ebruckert Bruckert wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">There's always two sides
to a coin, if DECtalk hadn't been purchased it
would have died. And since there was no money
from anyone to work on handicapped
applications, we had to do what our customers
want it or go home. I recognize that the HLsyn
work did not yield the hoped-for results and
perhaps someday it can with what we learned in
our failures. But it was a decision based on
the best knowledge we had at the time and in
fact also with Dennis Klatt's work. The
problems that occurred with the HL sin version
aren't of any interest to me because the
version put out was in early one and it's not
the right time to pursue trying to perfect
HLsyn. S<br>
<div>On all I can do is my best. </div>
<div> As to the person that mentioned the
idea of putting meaning into the text.
DECtalk actually has the ability to do some
marketing and adjustment to train achieve
that by hand. Automating the system to do
that is deal beyond our knowledge and
capability. Understanding what is being
conveyed is extremely extremely difficult
for a computer. A simple example;"You did
that." Depending on which word you emphasize
most there are three different ways of
saying this very simple sentence with
dramatically different meanings. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Alex H. <span><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com">linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>Well, to us,, we never really heard
later versions of DT, only the classics
from the 90's, so forgive us if we compare
the new attempts to prior versions - it's
not like we have a huge library of source
code to just browse at will and endless
samples of every version.... so... yeah.<br>
<br>
Wanna know what's been wrong with the
samples and attempts posted to this list a
few months ago for the sapi dectalk? I'll
tell you.<br>
<br>
The voices were clipping and squawking,
and all the voices sounded like they had a
speech problem. Perfect Paul wasn't
perfect as most of us have heard before.
The voices themselves sound not like
DECTalk at all, they also drop out in
volume, just like a human cuz it's using
HLsyn to make it sound more natural. <br>
I've heard DT 4.2cd, 4.3, 4.4, 4.61, 4.62
and 4.64. But since you've pointed out
before that version numbers don't matter
to speak, is this even important anyway or
are we just listening to the same code
with minor tweaks to get the various
versions we know?<br>
<br>
Disable HLsyn in the new product, and
it'll suck less. I like forment based
synths, not ones that try and sound human,
because I and others are used to classic
forment non-HLsyn versions of DECTalk.
True that HLsyn is still formant but it's
trying to sound real and have human
articulation, and knowing that I can
understand why this version sounds
different. It's just not what we're used
to, that's all. Some Joe Blow off the
street who has never heard synthesized
speech can't understand Eloquence from
DECTalk from Espeak anyways, so this point
of understanding speech is a moot one.
They'd be better off using Cepstral or
some human-sampled synths and wasting
their hard drive space. This is being
targeted at a relatively small group of
people who have used DECTalk before and
like it, so i think we're safe there. I'd
consider giving HLsyn another shot if it
was completed. But as always, corporate
America screws everyone over in the end,
and that was the case with Dectalk. So
much so, that Fonix wanted to make
FonixTalk and specificly try and make it
sound human. The result sucks.<br>
<br>
<br>
Alex<br>
On 8/3/2011 11:17 AM, ebruckert Bruckert
wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div> First of all let me make you
aware that I use DragonDictate, as I
can't see very well and proofreading
is quite painful so you'll have to
forgive and interpret from mistakes
the DragonDictate may make. It</div>
<div> I was taught about form and
speech synthesis by Dennis Klatt, and
by reading but before my involvement
with him I knew next to nothing. One
of the questions in the early days was
could you achieve higher
intelligibility by super articulation
and do better than natural speech.
What testing revealed was really two
things. At normal speaking rates the
answer always seem to be that the
closer you matched to real speech the
better the intelligibility at higher
speaking rates above that which humans
could normally achieve things were
little different and I'm not going to
go into the specifics of what we did
to make things better at high speed
other than to say they were based on
knowledge of speech perception.</div>
<div> The second thing we learned is
that listening to a synthesizer has a
very fast but steep learning curve.
Somewhat analogous to learning to
understand a person with a strong
dialect or speech impediment. One of
the problems we encountered is that
people often preferred the version
they were used to over any succeeding
version. But actual tests did not
support the preference.</div>
<div> One example is the way tilt
was done inside DECtalk. The original
mechanism was a crude approximation of
spectral tilt. Dennis before he died
developed a much more
accurate (meaning matching human
production) tilt filter that was not
able to be incorporated to a later
date. As a point of interest Dennis
was so dedicated that he last modified
the DECtalk code 3 days before he
passed away. So the spectral tilt was
changed and this changed what you
might consider the tone control on an
old radio or record player. That is
just one of many reasons why DECtalk
change slightly over the years.</div>
<div> The 5.0 DECtalk Incorporated
the work of Prof. Ken Stevens who was
Dennis is blessed MIT and close
friend. The 5.0 code unfortunately did
not yield the expected results, but we
did learn a lot from the attempt. This</div>
<div> there are even some changes
to DECtalk that would change the way
it sounds from any particular version,
such as Intonation that I am unwilling
to revert because I know for a fact
that they caused loss of information.
So my goal is very simple I am working
to create a very functional
intelligible DECtalk to put back out,
I am unwilling to try and make it
sound exactly like any given person
wants to. I have been through this
before and the year is very sensitive
and if you directly comparing two
versions side-by-side you not testing
anything but whether did the same and
that is an exercise in futility.
T </div>
<div> </div>
Any specific issues I can address.
Secondly as a word of warning to
listeners providing feedback. The other
thing we've learned is that listeners
are excellent at deciding that something
is not right, but are absolutely
terrible at exactly pinpointing the
problem. The reason for this is quite
simple people judge the output as speech
which it only kinda is, by this I mean
that a synthesizer can make mistakes
that humans cannot possibly do and as a
consequence can't possibly recognize. An
example of this is that after so many
years of working with it I have learned
to hear a foreman that's moving too
rapidly, but most people cannot hear it.
This is because to make life easy we try
to lead nor stuff that's not important
in our language, such as the nasal
lifestyles in French or the retro flex
ours in American English which is
Sheehan have a heckuva time hearing.
<div>
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Ed, good mighty lord, you're doing exelent dude. <br>
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