<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">can someone repost the samples? <div><br><div><div>On Aug 3, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Alex H. wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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Agreed. This new sample rules. It's pretty darn close to the
original and has its own coolness..<br>
<br>
alex<br>
<br>
On 8/3/2011 4:09 PM, jake mcmahan wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4E39AB16.1070708@gmail.com" type="cite">
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On 8/3/2011 3:42 PM, ebruckert Bruckert wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:CAMECcJ3L7RsLRjVA_Wuiyfsy2Lc1aukgQ9p6-N6gt38Sm=Jg1w@mail.gmail.com" type="cite"> Okay as an update listen to the to wave files
separately not back-and-forth listen to one we waited a few
minutes listen to the other. See if you agree were getting
closer, one of course is what you sent me<br>
<br>
<div>On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 1:43 PM, ebruckert Bruckert <span><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:edbruckert@gmail.com">edbruckert@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>agreed
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Alex H. <span><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com">linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>
<div>I, too, hope that HLsyn eventually will be a
viable option and we could use the old method or
HLsyn if we wanted, maybe for reading long texts
and so on. It's a great idea and theory but just
isn't mature enough at this point.<br>
<br>
Alex
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 8/3/2011 1:13 PM, ebruckert Bruckert wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">There's always two
sides to a coin, if DECtalk hadn't been
purchased it would have died. And since
there was no money from anyone to work on
handicapped applications, we had to do what
our customers want it or go home. I
recognize that the HLsyn work did not yield
the hoped-for results and perhaps someday it
can with what we learned in our failures.
But it was a decision based on the best
knowledge we had at the time and in fact
also with Dennis Klatt's work. The problems
that occurred with the HL sin version aren't
of any interest to me because the version
put out was in early one and it's not the
right time to pursue trying to perfect
HLsyn. S<br>
<div>On all I can do is my best. </div>
<div> As to the person that mentioned the
idea of putting meaning into the text.
DECtalk actually has the ability to do
some marketing and adjustment to train
achieve that by hand. Automating the
system to do that is deal beyond our
knowledge and capability. Understanding
what is being conveyed is extremely
extremely difficult for a computer. A
simple example;"You did that." Depending
on which word you emphasize most there are
three different ways of saying this very
simple sentence with dramatically
different meanings. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Alex H.
<span><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com">linuxx64.bashsh@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>Well, to us,, we never really heard
later versions of DT, only the classics
from the 90's, so forgive us if we
compare the new attempts to prior
versions - it's not like we have a huge
library of source code to just browse at
will and endless samples of every
version.... so... yeah.<br>
<br>
Wanna know what's been wrong with the
samples and attempts posted to this list
a few months ago for the sapi dectalk?
I'll tell you.<br>
<br>
The voices were clipping and squawking,
and all the voices sounded like they had
a speech problem. Perfect Paul wasn't
perfect as most of us have heard before.
The voices themselves sound not like
DECTalk at all, they also drop out in
volume, just like a human cuz it's using
HLsyn to make it sound more natural. <br>
I've heard DT 4.2cd, 4.3, 4.4, 4.61,
4.62 and 4.64. But since you've pointed
out before that version numbers don't
matter to speak, is this even important
anyway or are we just listening to the
same code with minor tweaks to get the
various versions we know?<br>
<br>
Disable HLsyn in the new product, and
it'll suck less. I like forment based
synths, not ones that try and sound
human, because I and others are used to
classic forment non-HLsyn versions of
DECTalk. True that HLsyn is still
formant but it's trying to sound real
and have human articulation, and knowing
that I can understand why this version
sounds different. It's just not what
we're used to, that's all. Some Joe Blow
off the street who has never heard
synthesized speech can't understand
Eloquence from DECTalk from Espeak
anyways, so this point of understanding
speech is a moot one. They'd be better
off using Cepstral or some human-sampled
synths and wasting their hard drive
space. This is being targeted at a
relatively small group of people who
have used DECTalk before and like it, so
i think we're safe there. I'd consider
giving HLsyn another shot if it was
completed. But as always, corporate
America screws everyone over in the end,
and that was the case with Dectalk. So
much so, that Fonix wanted to make
FonixTalk and specificly try and make it
sound human. The result sucks.<br>
<br>
<br>
Alex<br>
On 8/3/2011 11:17 AM, ebruckert Bruckert
wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div> First of all let me make you
aware that I use DragonDictate, as I
can't see very well and proofreading
is quite painful so you'll have to
forgive and interpret from mistakes
the DragonDictate may make. It</div>
<div> I was taught about form and
speech synthesis by Dennis Klatt,
and by reading but before my
involvement with him I knew next to
nothing. One of the questions in the
early days was could you achieve
higher intelligibility by super
articulation and do better than
natural speech. What testing
revealed was really two things. At
normal speaking rates the answer
always seem to be that the closer
you matched to real speech the
better the intelligibility at higher
speaking rates above that which
humans could normally achieve things
were little different and I'm not
going to go into the specifics of
what we did to make things better at
high speed other than to say they
were based on knowledge of speech
perception.</div>
<div> The second thing we learned
is that listening to a synthesizer
has a very fast but steep learning
curve. Somewhat analogous to
learning to understand a person with
a strong dialect or speech
impediment. One of the problems we
encountered is that people often
preferred the version they were used
to over any succeeding version. But
actual tests did not support the
preference.</div>
<div> One example is the way tilt
was done inside DECtalk. The
original mechanism was a crude
approximation of spectral tilt.
Dennis before he died developed a
much more accurate (meaning matching
human production) tilt filter that
was not able to be incorporated to a
later date. As a point of interest
Dennis was so dedicated that he last
modified the DECtalk code 3 days
before he passed away. So the
spectral tilt was changed and this
changed what you might consider the
tone control on an old radio or
record player. That is just one of
many reasons why DECtalk change
slightly over the years.</div>
<div> The 5.0 DECtalk
Incorporated the work of Prof. Ken
Stevens who was Dennis is blessed
MIT and close friend. The 5.0 code
unfortunately did not yield the
expected results, but we did learn a
lot from the attempt. This</div>
<div> there are even some
changes to DECtalk that would change
the way it sounds from any
particular version, such
as Intonation that I am unwilling to
revert because I know for a fact
that they caused loss of
information. So my goal is very
simple I am working to create a very
functional intelligible DECtalk to
put back out, I am unwilling to try
and make it sound exactly like any
given person wants to. I have been
through this before and the year is
very sensitive and if you directly
comparing two versions side-by-side
you not testing anything but whether
did the same and that is an exercise
in futility. T </div>
<div> </div>
Any specific issues I can address.
Secondly as a word of warning to
listeners providing feedback. The
other thing we've learned is that
listeners are excellent at deciding
that something is not right, but are
absolutely terrible at exactly
pinpointing the problem. The reason
for this is quite simple people judge
the output as speech which it only
kinda is, by this I mean that a
synthesizer can make mistakes that
humans cannot possibly do and as a
consequence can't possibly recognize.
An example of this is that after so
many years of working with it I have
learned to hear a foreman that's
moving too rapidly, but most people
cannot hear it. This is because to
make life easy we try to lead nor
stuff that's not important in our
language, such as the nasal lifestyles
in French or the retro flex ours in
American English which is Sheehan have
a heckuva time hearing.
<div>
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Ed, good mighty lord, you're doing exelent dude. <br>
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