[DECtalk] TEST
ebruckert Bruckert
edbruckert at gmail.com
Tue Jun 28 15:58:34 EDT 2011
May repeat, it will sing. I know how important this thing is, to me also.
For history out there, my involvement with DECtalk began when Dennis played
me a tape recording of what he had done and asked me if I was interested in
doing something with it. I have been the chief engineer of DECtalk ever
since that day in 1981 until my retirement due to vision and cardiac issues,
starting with my boss and I running around with a tin cup trying to get
money to start something.
I just thought of something, there is one incompatibility between old
versions and the new, someone could simply write a script to convert the
files, because I'm afraid to touch the parser or fear breaking it. In
computer terms DECtalk could not reliably process the original phoneme set
because we had both an L and an LL phoneme, so L was changed to L ask and
why was changed to yx for similar reasons.
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 3:46 PM, <Dectalk at aol.com> wrote:
> **
> *Thank you Ed. Just so you know, Corine was the one that told me they
> were using Klattalk default settings. Then she wanted to name it "Dectalk
> Classic".*
> **
> *Here is my own opinion. If this SAPI sings and only if it sings, then
> put it out. Maybe I'm out of line, but I have worked with Dectalk since
> 1989, I was instrumental in Corine even trying to create a SAPI, and if I am
> going to be a part of doing the dictionary, I want it to sing!*
> **
> *Yes I sing with it, but I'm not the only one. And if it doesn't sing,
> please don't ask me to do the dictionary. How can you cut off a part of who
> I am and then want my help? I can't, and it's not right for anyone to
> expect me to.*
> **
> *If the SAPI won't sing, please put it to rest. Too many people have
> gotten awards for what they have done with Dectalk. I alone have gotten the
> Da Vinci Award. This is all thanks to Dennis Klatt. If there is ever a
> museum of Dennis's work, I dream of having my CDs in that museum because
> people like me are an end result of his fine dream.*
> **
> *Kill the singing, you kill the legacy, not only for today, but for all
> futures generations. And, I won't be able to do more CDs. Yes, today I
> have the speak Window, but what about tomorrow. If vu take away my music,
> you are telling me and others like me to go away.*
> **
> *I'm sorry, but as cold as this sounds, if this SAPI won't sing, please go
> away. I believe in my heart that Dennis would want this to sing. I sing
> with it every day of my life, I give concerts, I am his dream. I went past
> anything he ever dreamed of and I have raised the bar. Take away the
> singing, and you take away the bar and the dreams for the next generation.
> Nothing on Earth is colder than that.*
> **
> **
> *SNOOPI BOTTEN *
>
> In a message dated 6/28/2011 2:37:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> edbruckert at gmail.com writes:
>
> OK guys enough. I am a little tired of the misinformation and confusion and
> blaming going on. What careens money has done really is get this SAPI
> portion working. I'm trying to get some old DLLs working. I do not get any
> monetary compensation so I can't have any evil intent as you purport to
> other people. You mentioned putting it old klatttalk setttings, which by the
> way there aren't any. The synthesizer Digital Equipment Corporation received
> from Dennis was incomplete. It had only the pH files for handling phonemic
> input and the vocal tract model, it did not even have letter to sound rules
> which were functional. As a point of interest historically 4.3 was one of
> the favorite versions and it was done by me as Dennis was dead. Singing –
> the code for singing is the same as it was when Dennis finished it with one
> exception. The original version used a physics music scale which turns out
> to be slightly different than the musicians music scale. Other than that the
> singing code has never changed, except for enhanced version of singing which
> was done on a special Hebrew cantering product. There is a danger clearly
> expressed in the manual that if you muck around with parameters especially
> gain parameters things can get strange and these are version specific
> because to achieve maximum quality a long program was run to calculate each
> filter gain in the vocal track for every single voice. The incompatibility
> results from a mathematical issue not anything else. Due to platform
> restrictions we weren't able to go to a floating point calculation which
> would've solved all these problems.
> I am slow because I'm almost blind myself but I said a long time ago that
> it was my goal to make sure you hit a DECtalk it was reasonable not
> identical. I say this because I sat there with 4.3 code in front of me
> comparing it to the code I was working on including pitch tracks and other
> measurements and just plain looking at the code and although they were very
> very close people preferred what they've gotten used to. Many of the changes
> that occurred were a result of Microsoft constantly changing things it was
> impossible for many different reasons for the original code to be compiled
> and there are also reasons why it was very difficult to determine what the
> code actually did and what it was supposed to do. There were many instances
> where the code obviously didn't do what Dennis's comments said it was
> supposed to do other things were even legal C constructs in that you could
> not tell how the compiler would handle the ambiguous statements.
> I've been laying back waiting for some of the smoke and dust to
> settle Now my real question is should I get to work or should I go away. The
> detailed issues are more complicated than either of Corine her any of you
> really know. I had programmers leave because they found the complexity of
> the whole darn thing to intimidating.
> As a tiny example, if a data entry error is made in the locus data, that
> can create a significant problem causing the synthesizer to squeal forever
> and yet be incredibly difficult to find.
> His forests beat goes it's really just a program to shovel stuff to
> DECtalk so it can be posted anywhere it was an example of how to talk to
> DECtalk. Like everything else the value is not in speak but is in the
> knowledge of how to program it for singing. And it's only useful if you
> happen to have a DECtalk already is the DECtalk DLL cannot be distributed
> freely and speak doesn't talk sappy it only talks to eight DECtalk. It uses
> the DECtalk application interface, sapi is simply a mapping of a universally
> defined set of commands for Windows into device specific commands. So if
> people want I can send out some samples of something I've worked on
> following normal procedures we only work on one voice until we were ready to
> release because of the tuning issues.
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:33 PM, <Dectalk at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> **
>> *Ok, and I just got an email from Corine who still doesn't get it. She's
>> saying that if anyone wants to sing using Dectalk, she's sending everyone to
>> me for a free speak window.*
>> **
>> *Uh, there's already an updated version of Windows 7 that the speak
>> window won't run on. What happens when a future Windows doesn't include
>> virtual XP? What if everything switches to a droid platform? I already
>> can't get speak running on certain computers.*
>> **
>> *Who do I call when I can't get the speak window working for people?
>> This is not fare to me.*
>> **
>> **
>> *SNOOPI BOTTEN *
>> **
>> In a message dated 6/28/2011 1:18:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> ratguy at insightbb.com writes:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I actually wasn't responding to that last message, but that's the one I
>> hit
>> reply to. I was actually responding to your thought yesterday that you
>> might
>> have been removed from the list for your earlier comments. That's not
>> going
>> to happen.
>> Jayson
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <Dectalk at aol.com>
>> To: <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 12:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST
>>
>>
>> > You miss understood me. I'm not concerned about being removed from the
>> > list. Corine in no way wants anyone to see the prototype. So I was
>> > saying,
>> > the link to the prototype will only work until Corine tells Dave to
>> take
>> > it
>> > down. Or, the site my crash.
>> >
>> >
>> > SNOOPI BOTTEN
>> >
>> >
>> > In a message dated 6/28/2011 11:10:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> > ratguy at insightbb.com writes:
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Let me just repeat something after all this discussion. Snoopi, you are
>> > not
>> > being removed from this list. I am the only person on Earth with the
>> > authority to remove people from this list or do any other
>> administrative
>> > job. And as far as I'm concerned, this whole discussion is valuable.
>> > Nobody
>> > will be removed from this list for anything they said or may say on
>> this
>> > topic.
>> >
>> > I want to state something else too. As I see it, there are several
>> > schools
>> > of DECtalk users and fans. There are some who like the DECtalk speech
>> and
>> > probably would use it with their screen reader if they could, or maybe
>> > use
>> > it along with a text to MP3 program such as Text Aloud, but don't have
>> > any
>> > other more elaborate use for it. Then there are those who think it's
>> cool
>> > that DECtalk can sing and do all this neat stuff and enjoy listening to
>> > others' creations, but don't have a clue how to actually make DECtalk
>> do
>> > any
>> > of those things. Then there are probably several classes of more
>> advanced
>> > DECtalk users who, at the high end, could probably transcribe arbitrary
>> > text
>> > into phonemes in their sleep. These are the people making the elaborate
>> > DECtalk songs and skits. And finally, there are the users with
>> > disabilities
>> > requiring them to use DECtalk to speak and/or sing. These users almost
>> > certainly fit into all the previous classes of users I've discussed. I
>> > fit
>> > somewhere in the third class of users, the more advanced DECtalkists.
>> So
>> > as
>> > you can see, this SAPI is obviously targeted toward the more basic
>> user,
>> > who
>> > just wants to use it with their screen reader or other SAPI-enabled
>> > applications, nothing more.
>> >
>> > Regarding the Speak windows, yes it's true that new hardware and new
>> > operating systems might come along under which the Speak windows won't
>> > run.
>> > However, all is not truly lost even then. As long as, say, a virtual
>> > machine
>> > running XP can run under whatever native hardware/OS is being used,
>> Speak
>> > can then be run under that. Not the most ideal solution I do admit, but
>> > still, it's better than nothing.
>> >
>> > I personally would like to see the SAPI provide all DECtalk's features,
>> > but
>> > it's clear to me that, for whatever reason, that's not going to happen.
>> > Jayson
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: <Dectalk at aol.com>
>> > To: <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:21 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST
>> >
>> >
>> >> _http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/_
>> >> (http://davesvideoservicesco.startlogic.com/test2/)
>> >>
>> >> Ok, we have an unstable prototype that keeps crashing. I'm forcing
>> > Dave
>> >> to keep it up until Corine tells him to remove it. It talks, but I
>> >> haven't
>> >> been able to get it to say anything this morning.
>> >>
>> >> Basically the plan is to reset it to Klattalk settings but call it
>> >> Dectalk
>> >> Classic. And, it won't sing.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> SNOOPI BOTTEN
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> In a message dated 6/28/2011 8:42:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> >> bmisch2002 at gmail.com writes:
>> >>
>> >> so how is that version coming along and are the other languages going
>> > to
>> >> be included or just us english?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Jun 27, 2011, at 6:33 PM, FRIDO ORDEMANN wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> There are other users of DECtalk than those who use it for singing.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ____________________________________
>> >> From: "_Dectalk at aol.com_ (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) "
>> <_Dectalk at aol.com_
>> >> (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com) >
>> >> To: _dectalk at bluegrasspals.com_ (mailto:dectalk at bluegrasspals.com)
>> >> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 2:10:43 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] TEST
>> >>
>> >> Actually I was scared I was removed for exploding on the list last
>> > night.
>> >> I also find it odd that Corine never apologized for her misleading
>> >> post.
>> >> I'm still in total shock at how her post was worded. And to post
>> that
>> > on
>> >> the list when we all have a speak window or other form of Dectalk.
>> > Heck,
>> >> if
>> >> I did have a singing SAPI, why would anyone buy her non-singing
>> > version?
>> >>
>> >> That post just totally made no sense to me. I still feel bad about
>> my
>> >> response, but I was and still am angry.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> SNOOPI BOTTEN
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> In a message dated 6/27/2011 1:22:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> >> _linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com_ (mailto:linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com)
>> writes:
>> >>
>> >> Your message came through. It's all good.
>> >>
>> >> Alex
>> >>
>> >> On 6/27/2011 12:58 PM, _Dectalk at aol.com_ (mailto:Dectalk at aol.com)
>> > wrote:
>> >> My mail got too full, so I'm just making sure everything is ok.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> SNOOPI BOTTEN
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Sent via Thunderbird.
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> =
>> >>
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