[DECtalk] List UP?
ebruckert Bruckert
edbruckert at gmail.com
Wed Aug 31 16:50:43 EDT 2011
no hints just feedback please.
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Jayson Smith <ratguy at insightbb.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The Val voice is still present in 4.3, so it's probably still there to this
> day.
> Jayson
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ebruckert Bruckert" <edbruckert at gmail.com>
> To: "DECtalk Discussions" <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 4:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] List UP?
>
>
> > Such it does never created for DECtalk, however I could certainly aid
> > someone in advising them on how to make it easier. For this purpose a
> > special voice was created in DECtalk called variable valve(Dennis Klatt
> > liked alliteration). Since I am a totally incompetent Windows programmer
> > I
> > can't do it, but I will have to look in the code to see if variable valve
> > still exists but it could be done anyway.
> > As I said the source code for the two apps I mentioned are available to
> > anyone I haven't done anything with them because of the above mentioned
> > reason. The real issue would be to develop an automatic gain tuner,
> > which which again could be done with some help, just to make the whole
> > process easier but it certainly can and has been done purely manually.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Jitendra Kumar
> > <jeet.invincible at gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> someone already posted that a new speak window can be created,Hello
> >> friends, I also have a suggestion too, if you remember, many of you
> >> perhaps: that flextalk had an app called perhaps voice tool, that we
> >> used to create new voices, however I never able to make it sing, but
> >> such an app should also ship with DECTalk, so that we can create new
> >> voices with more or less inflection and pitch settings, and perhaps
> >> this option can be made available in the newer speak window itself,
> >> and when we create new voices, DECTalk should register the voice so
> >> each sapi5 app can make use of it. Thank you.
> >>
> >> On 8/30/11, Alex H. <linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > No, but they just have a tendency to mess with the punctuation and
> >> > sort of commandeer it to their will, not taking into account that
> >> > somebody might have a clever synth like DECtalk. Anyways, I hear ya on
> >> > the abreviation issue. My iPod says 25 millibars instead of 25 MB for
> >> > filesizes. Or how about Windows 98 Southeast? Hahah!
> >> >
> >> > Alex
> >> >
> >> > On 8/29/11, Brent Harding <bharding at doorpi.net> wrote:
> >> >> I know, the automatic expansion of abbreviations drives a person up
> >> >> the
> >> >> wall
> >> >> trying to do critical things like medical transcription. I was
> >> >> listening
> >> >> to
> >> >> Jonathan Mosen do a demo of some self-voicing daisy editing app that
> >> >> FS
> >> >> bundles with the Plextalk, and kid me not, files sizes are measured
> in
> >> >> kerobytes. Is that what Microsoft does when you put kb next to a
> >> >> number?
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Alex H." <linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com>
> >> >> To: "DECtalk Discussions" <dectalk at bluegrasspals.com>
> >> >> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 7:45 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] List UP?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> Hi,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Just to clarify my earlier post, life would be great if Microsoft
> >> >>> didn't feel the need to muck about with how SAPI5 handles
> punctuation
> >> >>> and I'd love a singing sapi. The reality and how MS has done this
> >> >>> really makes it a royal pain, at least as far as I can tell with
> >> >>> little to no programming knowledge and just reading the
> documentation
> >> >>> on how this stuff works. The great thing if we were to have a modern
> >> >>> speak window for singing and skits and the SAPI for scren reading
> and
> >> >>> other text to speech programs is that it'll still be easy to export
> >> >>> songs and skits as wave files with minimal effort and ensure that
> >> >>> this
> >> >>> program will run in Windows operating systems in the future.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks Ed for all the tweaking and coding that has to go into a
> >> >>> project like this. It's much appreciated. Things are looking up.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Aelx
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 8/29/11, Jake McMahan <mcmahan.jake at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>> To me, I think the whole dad gum thing is extremely impressive and
> >> it's
> >> >>>> coming along. I am looking forward to getting my hands on this
> >> >>>> thing
> >> >>>> when
> >> >>>> it is available, and using it in my DSpeech scripts and much more.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> From: ebruckert Bruckert
> >> >>>> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 6:09 PM
> >> >>>> To: DECtalk Discussions
> >> >>>> Subject: Re: [DECtalk] List UP?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Okay sounds like you've done a thorough job. But I have two
> programs
> >> say
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> command line and batch mode program and speak which are both freely
> >> >>>> distributable in including source code and could certainly be
> >> >>>> included
> >> >>>> in
> >> >>>> any distribution.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Alex H. <
> linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com>
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Hi Ed,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I've done some digging about how to make the SAPI5 version of DT
> >> sing.
> >> >>>> It won't be easy to do this I'm afraid. Too many variables
> >> >>>> involved,
> >> >>>> and no program except ttsapp.exe will pipe the exact string you
> >> >>>> send
> >> >>>> to it to the SAPI5 engine. That's only part of the issue though.
> >> >>>> Firstly, SAPI5, as I thought, uses some low level punctuation
> >> >>>> filtering that comes even lower in the stack than things like
> text
> >> to
> >> >>>> MP3 programs, like Verbose or TextAloud, etc. Basically, the text
> >> >>>> to
> >> >>>> speech program (like textAloud) gets the text and adds its own
> >> >>>> punctuation rules to the text and sends this to SAPI, and SAPI
> >> >>>> does
> >> >>>> its own filtering/changing of the text string, so the original
> >> >>>> text
> >> >>>> gets lost early on in the chain. There's not any real easy way
> >> around
> >> >>>> this I'm afraid, after a good few hours reading MSDN articles and
> >> what
> >> >>>> not. Even when talking about changing text to be pronounced
> better
> >> (we
> >> >>>> could use this to make DT sing), SAPI unfortunately makes its own
> >> >>>> rules of phonemic definitions when you specify the proper tags
> >> >>>> [3].
> >> >>>> This basically means that it tries a one-size-fits-all approach
> >> >>>> and
> >> >>>> some synths that are SAPI compliant still won't speak the text as
> >> the
> >> >>>> SAPI phonemic string intends. In short, this would be a nightmare
> >> >>>> to
> >> >>>> implement using SAPI5. At least the way I see it.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I'm thinking for the ease of use factor for singers, maybe the
> >> >>>> best
> >> >>>> idea is a SAPI dectalk installable synth that works wiht screen
> >> >>>> readers, and then a speak window bundled wiht it for singing.
> That
> >> >>>> way, nobody is messing with sapi protocols.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Sources:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> [1]
> >> >>>>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms719574%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> [2]
> >> >>>>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms717252%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> [3]
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >>
> http://elearningtech.blogspot.com/2010/10/using-punctuation-and-mark-up-language.html
> >> >>>> [4]
> >> >>>>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms723638%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Sorry for the hugely complex post, but I felt it was needed to
> >> explain
> >> >>>> further. As always, great work and i look forward to more
> testing.
> >> >>>> Alex
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On 8/29/11, jake mcmahan <mcmahan.jake at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>> > On 8/29/2011 3:07 PM, ebruckert Bruckert wrote:
> >> >>>> >> These are all generated by just plopping the text into speak,
> >> since
> >> >>>> >> the scaling and interaction of these things has always varied
> >> >>>> slightly
> >> >>>> >> the the goal now is to try to adjust things the detailed stuff
> >> like
> >> >>>> >> little overloads for the last step.
> >> >>>> >> I'm not sure if I reset Paul or left them at the custom voice
> >> when
> >> >>>> I
> >> >>>> >> did the weather, so I'll resend the weather being sure it's
> >> regular
> >> >>>> >> Paul, but in fact if everybody likes the style we can modify
> >> those
> >> >>>> >> base parameters, as I already know that the pitch scaling is
> >> >>>> slightly
> >> >>>> >> different so will probably have to change the pitch things but
> >> >>>> that's
> >> >>>> >> the purpose of tweaking. On some of the voices that I fooled
> >> around
> >> >>>> >> was so much I really don't have a feel for what's better or
> >> worse.
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Alex H. <
> >> linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> <mailto:linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> Hi,
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> First, excellent job! The custom Paul voice in the weather
> >> file
> >> >>>> is
> >> >>>> >> great. It has a lot of inflection and sounds like 4.4,
> >> >>>> which
> >> is
> >> >>>> pretty
> >> >>>> >> impressive. The test.wav is strange though. It's very
> buzzy
> >> and
> >> >>>> hard
> >> >>>> >> to understand. Just to clarify, for now, are we just
> >> >>>> testing
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> Paul
> >> >>>> >> voice?
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> The weather sample seems to be very articulate and
> precise.
> >> It
> >> >>>> doesn't
> >> >>>> >> have any of that slurring of old versions on certain
> words.
> >> >>>> This
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> is
> >> >>>> >> great.
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> Just to hear the sample at a higher rate of speed, can you
> >> >>>> do
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> same
> >> >>>> >> text at about 350 wpm to see how it stands up?
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> I didn't hear any of the soft tones at the end of
> >> >>>> sentences,
> >> >>>> and
> >> >>>> even
> >> >>>> >> ran the file and amplified silences, and it's about 48 dB
> >> below
> >> >>>> >> normal, so it's pretty quiet as it is without the code to
> >> >>>> squash
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> >> humming.
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> Thanks,
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> Alex
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> On 8/29/11, ebruckert Bruckert <edbruckert at gmail.com
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> <mailto:edbruckert at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> >>>> >> > First some baseline testing stuff. Do not over test it
> in
> >> >>>> other
> >> >>>> >> words in the
> >> >>>> >> > beginning this is a rough cut so if we get into too many
> >> >>>> details
> >> >>>> >> or changes
> >> >>>> >> > it will just all become mud. We should only make a few
> >> >>>> changes
> >> >>>> >> at a time,
> >> >>>> >> > the other problem may become differences of opinion
> >> >>>> especially
> >> >>>> >> with some of
> >> >>>> >> > the voices which were never very stable because we never
> >> >>>> really
> >> >>>> >> liked
> >> >>>> >> > exactly what we had. This is an old version of DECtalk
> so
> >> >>>> >> occasionally you
> >> >>>> >> > will hear little homes at the end of things during what
> >> >>>> should
> >> >>>> >> be silence.
> >> >>>> >> > This is a mathematical problem called a limit cycle when
> >> >>>> we're
> >> >>>> >> finished I'll
> >> >>>> >> > add the new code I developed to squelch it. It took us
> >> years
> >> >>>> to
> >> >>>> >> figure out a
> >> >>>> >> > way to get rid of it perceptually we never could get rid
> >> >>>> of
> >> >>>> it
> >> >>>> >> > mathematically. Lastly I had to change the gain of
> >> >>>> voicing
> >> on
> >> >>>> >> the modified
> >> >>>> >> > voice that was sent without going into a long
> explanation
> >> >>>> which
> >> >>>> >> I can later
> >> >>>> >> > if people want the gains of the cascade vocal track have
> >> >>>> never
> >> >>>> >> ever been
> >> >>>> >> > constant it's a mathematical issue where you're
> >> >>>> constantly
> >> >>>> >> trying to adjust
> >> >>>> >> > them between quantization and overload and we've never
> >> >>>> been
> >> >>>> able
> >> >>>> to
> >> >>>> >> > guarantee them.
> >> >>>> >> > Lastly people can think about singing. The problem is
> >> >>>> that
> >> >>>> most
> >> >>>> SAPI
> >> >>>> >> > applications strip stuff out so I'm looking for
> >> >>>> suggestions
> >> >>>> of
> >> >>>> >> how we could
> >> >>>> >> > fool it and tell DECtalk that it was supposed to go into
> >> >>>> >> phonemic mode so it
> >> >>>> >> > can sing. I don't know what can and cannot get through
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> various
> >> >>>> >> > applications and while
> >> >>>> >> >
> >> >>>> >> > Again don't put too much effort in two critical
> listening
> >> at
> >> >>>> >> this stage as
> >> >>>> >> > were not fine-tuning it just training 3n where targets
> >> >>>> are
> >> >>>> >> >
> >> >>>> >> > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 1:06 PM, jake mcmahan
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> <mcmahan.jake at gmail.com <mailto:mcmahan.jake at gmail.com
> >> >>wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> >
> >> >>>> >> >> On 8/29/2011 11:52 AM, ebruckert Bruckert wrote:
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> Hello everyone the good news is I had a generator the
> >> >>>> bad
> >> >>>> news
> >> >>>> >> is I had to
> >> >>>> >> >> use it. I'm having trouble with the 2008 free edition
> of
> >> >>>> visual
> >> >>>> >> C I can't
> >> >>>> >> >> run the debugger. But before I uninstall and reinstall
> >> >>>> it
> >> I
> >> >>>> >> want to get
> >> >>>> >> >> this
> >> >>>> >> >> baseline out but it's a little bit painful because I
> >> >>>> can't
> >> >>>> run
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> >> >> debugger
> >> >>>> >> >> so I'm doing it by an archaic method. So it'll be out
> >> >>>> sometime
> >> >>>> >> today and
> >> >>>> >> >> then I'll reload visual C.
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 4:11 PM, jake mcmahan
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> >> <mcmahan.jake at gmail.com
> >> >>>> <mailto:mcmahan.jake at gmail.com>>wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> On 8/28/2011 11:40 AM, ebruckert Bruckert wrote:
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> Ed K okay I'm ready. I have a base tuning of all the
> >> voices.
> >> >>>> So
> >> >>>> >> send me
> >> >>>> >> >> the
> >> >>>> >> >> various files to test with and we will try and get some
> >> >>>> >> agreement on the
> >> >>>> >> >> voices.
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 10:32 AM, ebruckert Bruckert
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> <edbruckert at gmail.com <mailto:edbruckert at gmail.com>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> I was visiting my grandson, back to woek today.....
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Alex H.
> >> >>>> >> >> <linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> <mailto:linuxx64.bashsh at gmail.com>>wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> Hi,
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> Your message came through. DECTalk is alive and
> singing.
> >> :D
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> Alex
> >> >>>> >> >> On 8/20/2011 11:22 PM, Doris and Chris wrote:
> >> >>>> >> >> > I have not seen any messages from this list in over a
> >> >>>> week.
> >> >>>> >> So I was
> >> >>>> >> >> > wondering if the list was down or if there is a
> >> >>>> problem
> >> at
> >> >>>> my
> >> >>>> >> end or
> >> >>>> >> >> > with my subscription.
> >> >>>> >> >> >
> >> >>>> >> >> > Cheers,
> >> >>>> >> >> >
> >> >>>> >> >> > Doris
> >> >>>> >> >> >
> >> >>>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> >> >> > DECtalk mailing list
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> >> > DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com
> >> >>>> <mailto:DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> >> > http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> --
> >> >>>> >> >> --
> >> >>>> >> >> Sent via Thunderbird.
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> >> >> DECtalk mailing list
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> >> DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com <mailto:
> >> DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> >> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> >> >> DECtalk mailing
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> listDECtalk at bluegrasspals.comhttp://
> >> bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> <http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk>
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> >> take this, for example. This is a weather file.
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> >> >> DECtalk mailing list
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> >> DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com <mailto:
> >> DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> >> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> >> >> DECtalk mailing
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> listDECtalk at bluegrasspals.comhttp://
> >> bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> <http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk>
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> >> I gotcha man. If anyone can do it, you can dude
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> >> >> DECtalk mailing list
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> >> DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com <mailto:
> >> DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> >> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >>
> >> >>>> >> >
> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> >> DECtalk mailing list
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com
> >> >>>> <mailto:DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> >> DECtalk mailing list
> >> >>>> >> DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com
> >> >>>> >> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> >> >>>> > again, nice job ed
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> DECtalk mailing list
> >> >>>> DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com
> >> >>>> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> DECtalk mailing list
> >> >>>> DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com
> >> >>>> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> DECtalk mailing list
> >> >>> DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com
> >> >>> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> DECtalk mailing list
> >> >> DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com
> >> >> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> >> >>
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > DECtalk mailing list
> >> > DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com
> >> > http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Skype:
> >> Jeet.delhi
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> DECtalk mailing list
> >> DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com
> >> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > DECtalk mailing list
> > DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com
> > http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> DECtalk mailing list
> DECtalk at bluegrasspals.com
> http://bluegrasspals.com/mailman/listinfo/dectalk
>
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